Does anyone get the feeling the Kerry people know something we DON'T?

[Clinton Crusader]

Olbermann coupled with the Kerry sisters on King, I dont know, something in the wording, is making me think they know something we don't.

And I could just have a serious case of wishful thinking.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Yes had that feeling from oh... when Kerry told somebody in

the audience, "I got your back"

I keep telling people, Kerry has gotten very Nixonian (1960 vintage nixon)

And if he finds the evidence, as in the smoking gun, they will come out, otehrwise, just like Nixon a graduate student will dig it out in 20 years

[eowyn_of_rohan]

97. How do you mean "Nixonian"?

Hard for me to make that connection, and I didn't have much respect for Nixon at all.

[whalerider55]

107. eowyn....

i think the refernce was toi the fact that nixon was acutally jobbed out of the 1960 election; and knew it,. years later, somne student doing a grad dissertation went over the cooks county (chicago, home of anit-semite and all-round nasty man Richard Daley)discovered thousands of votes had been cast for Kennedy by dead people.

my fault recollection...

whalerider55

[Neoma]

2. Probably keeping things undercover even to his voters

so it will be a surprise that he won after the recount and fraud all reported.

[Goldmund]

3. If I only had a dime for each time I've heard this question since...

...the election, I could add to the wealth of dimes I accumulated for each time I heard "This is it, Shrub is toast" before the election.

[Turn CO Blue]

4. When you wish upon a star...

makes no difference who you are,
anything your heart desires will come to you!

Here's wishin' right along with you, kiddo!

[Florida_Geek]

5. What did Kerry's sisters say that makes you say that nt

[jean]

14. it's the Kerry sisters, not Kerry's sisters - hehe

[BlueDog2u]

6. CC

Many have been saying for days that the other shoe is waiting drop. Maybe its started to drop now. At least, you aren't wrong to think these could be signs of it. We'll have to wait to see what happens next, but I think all the really hard work done here -- by TIA, Ignatzmouse, Eloriel, Momcat, and everyone else, may be starting to bear fruit. Let's hope so. I don't think we're going to win the election, but we should make the sobs pay for every inch.

[New Earth]

7. i've been picking up on the same thing

[New Earth]

8. and

Vanessa sounds like she's still campaigning for her dad.

[berner59]

15. does seem like interesting timing....

Having Keith say campaign is getting involved and Fineman saying that a recount WILL happen and we'll be talking hanging chads...now the girls are on...seems like a last minute thing with King saying "exclusive" interview...

Would love to think all this wishful thinking will not go to waste, not to mention ALL this great work going on out there...I can't imagine Kerry ignoring all this effort...

[ahyums]

16. you reckon? I wish I would have got that out of it, all I saw sadly

was resignation

[New Earth]

17. wow

you need to read the 'I BELIEVE" thread a few times.

[ahyums]

28. you're probably right and I do have to keep remembering that we have a

chance, I just really didn't see that Vanessa and Alex believed that, I suppose I was hoping for a hint or something, like the ones which seemed to be contained in that video

[republikkkon]

9. "I dont know, something in the wording"

well, offically the kerry camp has changed their language from saying "we don't think the outcome (of a recount) will change the election" to "we don't NECESSARILY think the outcome (of a recount) will change the election"

or something to that effect. i'm sure i'm not getting the quote exactly right, but the inclusion of "necessarily" is the important part.

thats a significant change of working IMO

[Lizzie Borden]

13. Bingo!

I agree. It ain't over till it's over, and all the votes have not been counted.

[Clinton Crusader]

10. I didnt feel this before...

I KNEW I was just spitting in the wind, thinking some miracle will happen. But after seeing Kerry's video online, listening to Olbermann, now hearing the sisters (they keep saying about fighting and continuing) some shift has occured, to me anyway. The first thing I think of is Kerry is trying to fly below the radar, saying he will JOIN a recount effort, but not start one.

Maybe Im NUTS and have a serious case of hysterical wishful thinking, but I just feel different today.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Yuo need to fly under the radar

I cannot prove it... but the way this has been handled is classic of a good prosecutor... or special forces.

And as I said above, tehy are doing it in a very nixonian way, the last thing to occurr to Republicans

:-)

I hope it works, for the record I do not think bush will go peacefully, or the courts will allow it to work but we have to try...

[aprillcm]

11. People forget

Kerry was a Prosecutor before entering Politics! Lawyers gather facts before trying to make their case, well at least good ones do and they do not invite scrutiny till they are sure what they are looking at. Sounding like Kerry is getting sure of what he is seeing and getting ready to do battle.

[ezee]

21. I agree,

have been thinking this all along. He is gathering evidence, checking it twice and is going to find out who has been naughty or nice. Then he will jump. Keep the faith and pray.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

88. there was an article

posted a few days ago and it mentioned Michael Moore:

"Moore asks for a field report. Grim expressions tell the story. The problem is long lines, one man says. "There's people I personally spoke to who waited three hours to vote."

Moore nods attentively. "Where's our camera?" he barks. "Make sure we get this on camera, 'cause we're not just looking for fraud. We're also looking for ineptitude."

"Are you making a movie about the election?" someone asks.

"The videotape exists as evidence," he says. "It's not to appear in your cineplex. It's to appear in a court of law!""

http://www.clevescene.com/issues/2004-11-10/news/feature_7.html

That comment about the tape being used in a court of law has stood out in the back of my mind since reading that story. I don't know - I just cannot believe Michael Moore of all people would turn his back on us! He has fought such a HUGE battle for the people for so many years, why would he just disappear as he has?

I also know Kerry is an extremely intelligent man - look at everything he has done - especially the BCCI! No one wanted to touch that.

(Just my two cents) :)

[KaryninMiami]

112. Michael Moore article was inspiring...

Actually, it made my night. Because I just cannot possibly imagine that Michael Moor is sitting around somewhere, watching the news, listening passively to the reports coming in from the Ohio public forums, ignoring all that is going on now, deliberately not being un-involved. HE HATES BUSH and made it very clear that his goal was to make sure he was not put back in the White House. How in the world could he possibly be doing NOTHING? Also, as far as I know, his video team was also here in Florida. I wonder if anyone ran into them here. There were lots of problems are our polls as well- maybe not as intense as in Ohio, but people waited in lines for many hours here too- mostly in minority precincts and at universities.

I just can't shake the feeling (and that article supports this) that Michael and his video team are in some editing room somewhere, giggling wickedly as they splice the tapes together, knowing that in just a few weeks, his tape is GOING TO BLOW THE ROOF OFF during it's carefully timed release. But when will that be? At the court hearings? To the media just before the electoral collage votes? Subtle is NOT one of Michael's personality traits so wherever it is, we know it will be loud, media heavy and dramatic... Even I am salivating at the thought-- "CAUGHT ON TAPE- MASSIVE VOTER SUPPRESSION!" (not at the thought of the voters being suppressed of course which is horrendous- just at the fact that it's all going to be exposed, one frame at a time).


Am I being naive? Grasping at a fantasy? Wishful thinking? Somebody slap me back to reality please.

Michael- send us a hint please if you are reading this. We promise not to tell anyone- just a small hint so that we know you are doing what we know you do best (from an undisclosed locationof course)

[intheflow]

125. Moore already has a short clip out from election day in Ohio.

Here's the link: http://www.metroblogging.com/videothevote /

But you're right. Moore's been silent...too silent.

[pacalo]

96. There may be some more-than-willing FBI men helping, also. :)

[zann725]

123. I agree too!

I think the timing of the interview of the Kerry girls is MORE THAN COINCIDENTAL...particularly given the DNC's growing involvement this week in the Ohio recount, AS WELL AS Kerry's video tape last Friday in which he also stressed 'still counting votes'? The fact that Alexandra echoed those words as well today was encouraging. Overall, it seems their appearances and statements are quite 'crafted,' and cautious. Saying ONLY as much as they can...as if they were 'prisoners'(of the Beltway?)...tapping out a verbal S.O.S. In fact, Keith Oberman joked that Kerry's video last week looked like it has been broadcast from 'an undisclosed location.'

Also, did anyone notice the photo they showed of Kerry on the campaign trail playing cards with Alexandra? In it he was carefully guarding his 'hand.' Thought it was interesting, since so many DU'ers refer to Kerry's current stance in the recount as someone carefully 'playing' his hand.

I think the last few days have been INCREDIBLY hopeful. The momentum is building. Like others have said, I trust Kerry's prosecutor background, and his personal trait of performing best when 'up against the wall.' Someone whose campaign themesong was 'No defeat, No surrender.'
HANG IN THERE, and TRUST! :kick:

[angrydemocrat]

64. aprillcm -

that is exactly right. Me and some of the others around here have been saying this all along. We have been told over and over we are crazy and need to face reality but the fact of the matter is it will be these people that will have to face reality in the end. They refuse to believe that this man has been fighting this all along and that he know's exactly what he is doing, how to do it, and when to do it. Little by little it's coming out now and people like myself that know what this man is all about, what he believe's in, and what he stnads for were right all along. I have sopported this man from day one and will always support him. This man is a true patriot, that stands up and fights for what he believes in, and loves his country as much as anyone. This man didn't become a attorney, lt. governor, and get elected and serve as senator for 20 years, and run for president by being a dumba$$. I have had total faith and trusted him all along that he wouldn't be a quitter as so many around here try to make him out to be. This man has had his back against the wall and people counted him out way to early more times than you can count in his career. But that has never stopped him, he always comes out swinging and swinging hard. This man deserves great respect for all he has done and will continue to do for his country and the people in it.

[seito]

80. Here, Here

Great post.

Give him credit for fighting a smart fight, not an emotional one. There was no need for him to challenge the election on Nov 3rd. Had he done that, he would have been discredited immediately, and framed as unpatriotic and selfish. Think about the timing, the assault on Fallujah etc.

The recount in Ohio will probably go more smoothly being led by the GLIBs, and it has the power of the people, not politicians and big money behind it. The media can not stop and discredit the people.

The Democrats have now joined in the campaign for the recount, as many of us knew they would. If I am not mistaken, that opens doors for the use of the Kerry/Edwards recount assets and legal teams.

I believe in John Kerry as a patriot and a voice for the people. He has not abandoned us. Even if we can not prove fraud in time overturn this election, I believe that he will fight to hold the media, the corrupt corporations and politicians accountable for what has taken place.

As it stands now, "regardless of the outcome of this election," John Kerry is in a position of power and so are we. Think about his words in the video. Now more than ever the grassroots efforts are needed. We must stand together and at the proper time, take our message to the American people.

[Joe Chi Minh]

132. Absolutely right!

At least two things people need to get a handle on:

1) The media barrage and the trolls who are allowed - in my opinion erroneously - to post on this board "spreading alarm and dispondency" (a very serious crime in war-time) *do* instil some fear in our hearts -in spite of what our head tells us; but we should still allow Kerry to play his "low-profile, long game". Its merits are so enormous and obvious. On the other hand, maybe our fear is the necessary price we had to pay, to prevent our losing control of the mainstream media! What's a sneering putdown about conspiracy theories, in comparison with a thuggish hullabaloo before most of the prosecution work could be carried out by our people? and

2) The significance of what is at stake is so immense, that, when compounded by the instant withdrawal symptoms, which political junkies suffer at times like this, it's not so difficult for feelings of alarm and despondency to get to them, particularly during the earlier, more fallow news spells on the board.

I think it must have been even harder for Kerry to say the off-putting, dismissive things he did, than for us to hear them, and still keep faith in his character.

Lots of men are not great communicators, but Kerry communicated plenty well enough for me, and he spoke with genuine passion. "Wooden", my eye! I'll take "wooden", if the speaker's Kerry.

I could be fun watching the media begin to run with the hare, after hunting with the hounds - beginning hopefully with mad Larry tonicht!

[stirringstill]

65. Politics first

I thought Kerry entered politics first. Ran for Congree, was defeated, and the went to law school. But I get your point and think that prosecutorial spirit is an innate impulse.

[carolinalady]

12. I'm probably wrong...I usually am but

I think this is a clever roll-out to reintroduce the next President Elect. I think they have been very savy and classy in how they have maintained a low profile and let the masses' groundswell emerge. If we are so lucky to overturn this election, nobody can compare Kerry's victory to Bush in 2000. If we don't win, nobody can compare Kerry's defeat to Gore, thereby leaving the door open for a dignified, popular candidate in 2008.

[Scout1071]

Reporting for Duty

I couldn't agree more. I think that the Kerry video is definitely signaling a change. I think they have information and they are going to find the absolute best way to make their case and deal with the consequences. This is huge. Has there ever been another time in history where the President and his campaign were proven fraudulent and the electoral college got the information before the swearing in?

History in the making with enormous consequences. Kerry is treading lightly and rightfull so.

Having said that.....fight on people. Fight on. The Will of The People cannot be ignored.

Many thanks to everyone who contributes on this board and others. Hopefully, together, we will change history.

[New Earth]

27. it's rewrite

Rewrite history :)

[autorank]

18. I wish I could wish but I can't.

I think we got screwed, period. Cheated out of the election. I also think that we'll find out about it in 6-18 months. Not because the press plans any digging, rather, it will be due to DUers, BBVers, etc. There may be a mole or whistle blower. Or better yet, a hacker who wants to make his/her name who can unravel all of this.

I'm saddened by things being over and I wish I could wish but I can't.

"Now, it's on to Byzantium."

Corporate America controls the media and we get manufactured news.
Corporate America now controls the voting machines and we get manufactured elections.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

[IAMREALITY]

41. Ummmm

"I'm saddened by things being over and I wish I could wish but I can't."

Is it January 6th already?????

Oh shit, it isn't??

Guess it aint over yet then....

:eyes:

[autorank]

47. Agreed. I'm hoeing while I pray for rain.

[pacalo]

98. Autorank, all the clues point to something happening behind the

scenes. The uncharacteristic silence of Democratic leadership after a SECOND dubious election; the fact that Kerry is a successful prosecuter who knew in advance to keep strategic tabs on this election, etc.

Read this post -- it sounds very plausible: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=71673#71882

I already had faith in Kerry, but that post made me think more broadly about the possibilities. We have good reason to be hopeful. :)

[unblock]

19. actually i think he's building a case for "impeachment"

not that the republicans in congress would actually vote for impeachment. rather, kerry's building the case that the election was rife with criminal acts on the part of republicans, and i think he'll present that at some point, maybe 6-9 months from now or so, when he's got his ducks in a row.

no WAY will he have enough in time to prevent shrub from swearing in 1/20/05.

BUT, he will have enough to sell newspapers, and if shrub's moral authority goes, it could get VERY ugly for the republicans. big democratic victories in 2006, and kerry would be paraded into the white house on their shoulders in 2008.

[whalerider55]

34. unblock...

wish it were different, but this buck will stop short of *, probably won't even go as far as rove- the master of deniability- what would be the basis for impeachment?

(not that the first four years haven't provided us with ample opporunity) i just think this election doesn't figure into an impeachment- the conspiracy (and that is what i think it was) was far too decentralized.

whalerider55

[unblock]

38. agreed, which is why "impeachment" is in quotes

democrats will oversell it, it will really be a widespread scandal but they'll mostly nail republican operatives, but the political point will be to smear the whole party.

democrats can cry for impeachment knowing that the republicans would never actually do it even if they DID catch bush red-handed.

but the cry for impeachment, coupled with a few actual hard cases against low-level operatives, might just turn the tide.

[KittyWampus]

77. Basis For Impeachment? Taking Office Via Fraudulent Votes

An art thief doesn't get to keep the painting after he's caught.

An art dealer doesn't get to keep a stolen painting if it's discovered.

[whalerider55]

84. but...

the thief stole the painting, and the evidence is there to convict them.

all i'm saying is Bush may have been the unwitting beneficiary of the zealotry of others (ha ha ha); i think actually linking him personally to the fraud will be difficult; especially after the electoral votes are cast. and remember, the electoral voters are not constitutionally bound to voite the way they have been "instructed" by the voters. its the elcetoral college who puts him in office, barring intervention by the Lgislature, not we the people.

rove's modus operandi after learningthe ropes in the nixon years is ensruing that the conspiracy is decentralized enough not to lead directly back to him.

whalerider55

[BR_Parkway]

137. And the email that he sent asking for signatures to present to

the Senate asking for Health Care Legislation. Don't recall the exact wording, but it was about the impact on all Senators if, instead of a couple other Senate co sponsers, it was signed by millions of citizens (voters). I think it was a test. If this is the calm before the storm and the info comes out, he knows he still needs Congress to do something about it. He's looking at presenting them with millions of signatures saying NOT to certify the election.

[buff2]

22. When it's proven that this election was stolen AGAIN.......

and Kerry actually won.....who in here really believes the repuke nazis and bu$h will do the right thing and give up their power? Do any of you think they would allow the real winner to take the oath in Jan. and accept defeat? Not in a million years,folks. We are under THEIR rule,and we best not forget it. Those lousy bastards are in to stay. It's going to take a real uprising to happen before we get this country back.....and I don't think that will ever happen. :grr:

[New Earth]

24. good going dude

play right into their game.

If it is INDESPUTABLE that Kerry won, they have NO CHOICE. I really don't think they are as evil as people make them out to be. Corrupt and slightly evil, but they really would have NO CHOICE BUT TO STEP DOWN.

[buff2]

32. First of all,I am not a dude

I am a female. Second of all,you must not have been paying attention to all the repuke shenanigans. They will and HAVE stooped as low as they can go to keep themselves in power. Didn't you hear what they had planned to do in 2000 if Gore "won"? And what about this time? They already had it planned to take it to court if Kerry had "won". It's real and it's the truth. Repukes are EVIL and CORRUPT not just slightly but TO THE BONE. Nuff said. :hi:

[henslee]

56. You just reminded me of Peanuts -- when Peppermint Patty keeps getting

called Sir by her friend with the glasses. "Stop calling me Sir.

(giggle)

[buff2]

87. LOL

I always liked that cartoon.. :hi:

[New Earth]

72. i'm not a dude either

i call everyone dude. sorry if that offended you..................:shrug:

[buff2]

90. Hey it's ok.......

buff2 isn't a very feminine name anyway....I took it from my dog's name. Her name is Buffy. I just love her soooo much.She is my best friend. :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. An uprising?

Don't discount it,

We are now in a race between foreign wars and the misery Index... if you get my drift, and the great depresion IS COMING and usually it takes great depresions for the kool aid to wear off

[buff2]

33. I'm ready

I will fight for our rights anyway I can. I hope you are right. :hi:

[BrotherBuzz]

45. I see pitchforks....

millions of them...barn forks, barley forks, spading forks, manure forks, ballast forks, header forks, beet forks, coke forks, rice forks, and potato forks! Oh, torches, too!!!

Count me in for the party.

[RevCheesehead]

104. Please don't forget the Pickle forks!

:evilgrin:

[BrotherBuzz]

121. Come, we go throw the bums out!

and bring what you can, be it a...

baby fork, pie fork, steak fork, dinner fork, lemon fork, relish fork, lettuce fork, meat fork, game fork, joint fork, berry fork, cheese fork, oyster fork, beef fork, dessert fork, olive fork, vegetable fork, fish fork, cold meat fork, pastry fork, tea fork, ice cream fork, salad fork, sardine fork, ramekin fork, shrimp fork, and of course, last but not least the lowly spork!

Hmmmm, when you get to the fork in the road - take it!

:evilgrin:

[SoCalDemGrrl]

118. Couldn't agree more...the great Depression will be a great equalizer...

[carolinalady]

30. Well if anyone wants to uprise in Wilmington--I'm there!!!

:headbang:

[IAMREALITY]

43. No It Won't

"It's going to take a real uprising to happen before we get this country back.....and I don't think that will ever happen. "

No it won't, it'll just take an Ohio recount goin our way.

:)

[trayfoot]

60. I totally agree.

[bywho4who]

74. This mean's we'll count you out

eom

[buff2]

95. I don't think so.........

You won't count me out of anything. I do what I want.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

117. I agree, nothing short of a popular uprising will get these folks out....

I really fear for a Civil War because they have their "red" base so fired up and they truly believe Bush comes close to the 2nd coming of Christ. For four years they have depicted us as the epitomy of EVIL and I don't doubt for a second that the reds will fight to the death to keep their man in the WH.

[Joe Chi Minh]

133. I do.

No question. He'll leave punctually.

[Carni]

23. Yes, most definitely

I also think he (they) know there isn't a damn thing they can do about this coup.

It is a coup and who the fuck is going to save us?

[whalerider55]

25. joe bfltspxckikax speaks....

folks. we are now at the point of scratching for word changes, certain intonations, hints and interpretations of e-mails and videos.

yes, kerry is a prosecutor. yes, they get all the facts before they prosecute.

but my friends, the case Kerry is weighing here is the enfranchisement of the american voter, the corenrstone of democracy. am i nuts, or have we uncovered enough hard and fast evidence to determine that has happened in ohio and florida and that registrations were destroyed in Nevada? There are already indictments there.

Is the threshhold that Kerry will prosecute only if there are enough stolen votes for him to win? and that if there aren't the disenfranchisement of 2 mil, or 2 and a half mill is tolerable? Acceptable?

what am i missing here? we're in a fight for democracy, we have the evidence already to show that votes were stolen, we can make a good case for voter supression and a better case for intimidation.

and we can't do better than the party we donated a gazillion dollars to and gave our souls to keeps silent, and we search for nuances in their statements, those knowing winks?

sheesh, folks, sheesh.

whalerider55

[New Earth]

29. wtf

why are all these doomsday folk coming out of the woodwork on this board? :o

[whalerider55]

31. faye

reality does look a little like doomsday, doesn't it.

you miss my point.

maybe you didn't.

how about responding to what i said, and keep the personal judgments out of the thread.

here's a hint.

the DNC won't save us here. we will save us. i'm not waiting for their contingent response to a constitutional crisis.

and these people are far more evil than you can imagine. far more. way more, as we say here in New England.

whalerider55

[IAMREALITY]

48. Actually

I look a little like Ethan Hawke....

[whalerider55]

49. cool...

i look like the mailman...

whalerider55

[lthuedk]

115. Your handle, "whalerider55": as in Boston Whaler?

Anyway, there is a big data base being formed that could include vote totals received unlawfully for Bush. If that number exceeds 3.5 million votes, nation wide, Kerry wins the popular and electoral.

That, I believe, is what it will take to pop the blackhead out of the whitehouse convincingly.

[whalerider55]

130. handle and zit popping

whalerider55 as in being born in 1955 and having ridden on the back of a whale during one of my more exotic incarnations, in my 20's.

is this national database accessible, rumored or wishful? is there a link?

hopeful.
whalerider55

[buff2]

37. You have to face reality

You can't live in a dream world....it would be nice...but you can't.I wish things would change,but I've been wishing this since Clinton was running for his first term and the repukes were smearing him with their lies and digging up his past from birth to present.Repukes will never change unless WE THE PEOPLE force them. Looks like the christian fundies have put the skids on that for right now.

[pacalo]

100. Just suppose Kerry, a forward-thinking former prosecutor who knew

what he was dealing with from Day 1 of the campaign, planted some technicians in various Diebold offices. Also, suppose that some FBI employees were willing to bug certain telephones.

There are a lot of possibilities, considering how intelligent Kerry is & how methodical he has lived his life.

[zann725]

124. My thoughts exactly!

He's wanted this his whole life. He DOES have a background as a Prosecutor. And the BCCI investigation failed to fully 'net' the criminals THAT TIME. Kerry knew going into this election that Shrub stole the 2000 election, and he had 4 years in between to evaluate EXACTLY how it was done...and set-up the 'entrapments.' Kerry was not only investing about 2 years of his life on the campaign trail, but also a double-mortgage of $10 Million on his house. He lost more than an election here...much more.

Plus, did anyone notice on that Kerry daughters' interview tonight, the still photo they showed of Kerry on the campaign plane, playing cards with Alexandra? He was carefully guarding his 'hand.' There's a guy, I thought, who knows 'when to hold them...knows when to fold 'em.'

If you think about it, it's ALL seems quite calculated...like a very good Prosecutor.

:)

[seito]

101. I know of three lawsuits being filed this week

I think we need to give this story some time to break open. Unfortunately it takes time to gather evidence. The delays will almost certainly result in a Bush inauguration, but I can not see how events would have played out any differently had Kerry not conceded on Nov 3rd.

There will be accountability for the voter disenfranchisement, and there will be investigations into the fraud. However, unlike 2000, the challenges are coming from the people. Our efforts will prove much harder to fight than a challenge from a candidate.

When the time is right, all of the voting rights advocates will stand with the people and expose what happened in broad daylight, free of the majority of the media spin.

JMHO

[whalerider55]

103. welcome, seito

welcome to DU!

i agree that the challenges are coming from the people; i agree that is where they need to come from as well.

i just remain shocked that the DNC and our elected officials can't find a way to raise this issue as one of enfranchisement; the elected offials (at least) took an oath of office to uphold the constitution--

i truly hope that the bad guys lose. but we lived through 2000; the elections of 2002 in FL and GA were really a test run for what was gonna happen in 2004; there were myriad stories, even in the mainstream press about voter suppression and intimidation stories--

wouldn't it have made more sense as a strategy to get around in front of this issue, instead of trying to catch up with the clock-ticking? it just is a hard sell for me to believe that the K team and the DNC knew this was going to happen and had a strategy to quietly gather evidence...

abstinence is a myth. prevention is the best birth control.

whalerider55

[Syd_]

35. Does it help to know that Howard Dean & General Clark knew about the GEMS

Tabulator in early September? I'm certain that they knew. Couldn't all that has been done post election be a well planned strategy?

[whalerider55]

40. syd

it's possible. but at this point, i don't trust being "surprised".

as i've said, if anything louder than a geese fart on a muggy day comes out of the DNC and the Kerry folks about this travesty, any clear acknowledgement of the disenfranchisement of hundreds of thousands or even millions, i'll be the first one back here to take all the i told ya so flames and arrows.

whalerider55

[Syd_]

51. Those of you who became acquainted with the General

already know that although he just can't lie, he IS a great strategist. When he was told about GEMS, he just said one word, "Wow!" and his face clouded over. He was already thinking about a way around it at that moment.

[carolinalady]

52. Would you please explain the GEMS thing?

I tried to archive search it but it would not work. Thank you.

[Syd_]

58. This is a simplified explanation of the GEMS Tablulator

The Republicans didn't win any of the offices by any margin, nor did they lose. The same goes for the Democrats. It works this way. The kind of ballot doesn't matter. It can be paperless electronic (which has problems of its own), punch card ballot, other paper ballots, absentee ballots, military absentee ballots etc. ALL BALLOTS! The ballots are counted locally, in each precinct. The totals are then sent to the Central GEMS Tabulator in each county from all the precincts. The totals are then tallied by the GEMS Tabulator which is a regular computer with a windows OS and if you've ever used the "Remote Desktop Connection," you know how easily the final tabulation can be manipulated. It has a Diebold program that allows the totals to be changed without a trace. The GEMS Tabulator tallies as many as two million votes at a time. These tallies are what is given as the final number of votes.

Now for the "What do we do about it" part. With all forms of ballots, exept the paperless touch screen voting machines, there are still ballots that can be recounted. If those raw figures from each precinct are collected without going through the GEMS Tabulator, the jig is up! The plot is exposed and the villains foiled.

Now do you get it. Some of the "battleground" areas DID NOT use the touch screen paperless machines. There were a number of different types of ballots. There was NOT a clear mandate.

Nobody won. Nobody lost. It didn't just affect the presidency, but the house and senate as well. There was no mandate. There was only what the GEMS tabultor said. The GEMS tabulator decided the election as it stands right now.

[ahyums]

62. but the recount should pick up on any fiddling?

[Syd_]

79. Yes

That's a good part of what's going on now. Keep in mind that my explanation was simplified, or basic. There's a lot more to it than that. By checking the numbers dialed by modems, times, lapses in times etc., even the electronic machines can be verified.

[lostnfound]

63. & a useful reminder: part of it was programmed by a felon-thief

(actually I think he was a Sr VP at GES when it was bought by Diebold; and GES is the subsidiary now known as GEMS):

http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm
Check this out - No less than 5 of Diebold's developers are convicted felons, including Senior Vice President Jeff Dean, and topping the list are his twenty-three counts of felony Theft in the First Degree. According to the findings of fact in case no. 89-1-04034-1 (Washington State):

“Defendant’s thefts occurred over a 2 1/2 year period of time, there were multiple incidents, more than the standard range can account for, the actual monetary loss was substantially greater than typical for the offense, the crimes and their cover-up involved a high degree of sophistication and planning in the use and alteration of records in the computerized accounting system that defendant maintained for the victim, and the defendant used his position of trust and fiduciary responsibility as a computer systems and accounting consultant for the victim to facilitate the commission of the offenses."

To sum up, he was convicted of 23 felony counts of theft from by - get this - planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection.

[RevCheesehead]

106. The irony that 5 Diebold developers couldn't vote in FL...

But they can, apparently, fix an election.

[whalerider55]

108. well...

i heard they voted early, and often, in ohio...

whalerider55

[SoCalDemGrrl]

119. Holy Sh** , and they let this guy count OUR Votes????!!

[whalerider55]

69. simplified and very useful

whalerider55

[carolinalady]

78. Thank you. I get it now.

[kerry2win]

36. the thing I keep coming back to is

17,000 lawyers. Something more than just making sure every vote is counted is going on. They must think they have a real chance of finding the extra votes or fraud.

[buff2]

39. Who's got 17,000 lawyers?

I heard Kerry had 10,000 out during the election but where were they? How could all this fraud go on right underneath their noses?

[kerry2win]

42. it was posted yesterday on olbermans blog

[whalerider55]

46. i caught that too...

and having run a nationwide association of attorneys for four years, i gotta say this...

it is beyond credibility for me to believe that there are 17,000 lawyers out there digging, or even observing, that they are keeping their mouths shut, and that the repugs aren't screaming bloody murder about it.

sorry to be that dark cloud around everybody's silver lining.

whalerider55

[kerry2win]

50. heres what was posted david wade

said this http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

[IAMREALITY]

57. No Your Not

You are thriving on it.....

"sorry to be that dark cloud around everybody's silver lining."

[whalerider55]

59. IMR

Thriving?

Read my post 25 and then respond to it. Not just with gratuitous wisecracks; that's easy. thinking about how to deal with this issue is work.

We are in a constititional crisis. I expect more from our party in response. I am frustrated. I fully support, financially have supported the recount effort.

but if counting the votes doesn't matter to the DNC and our democrat elected officials, then the whole enchilada is shot, ya think. Why should people wait fifteen hours to vote in 2008 when no one really gives a damn about their vote-

it happens everytime i make that point. i get labeled a doomsday woodwork crawler, or someone who thrives on casting the gloom of a reralityy based framerwork to strategizing.

btw- i am also a publicaly elected official, and i like to believe that when the big picture begs a response, it gets one from me.

sheesh. let's up the level of debate to actually responding to what someone is posting on a more thoughtful level, and save the sniping for someplace else.

you know, it strikes me as funny that a nuanced debate of this issue would be so threatening to some of us. you'd think we were the bush white house, the way dissent is discouraged.

sheesh

whalerider55

[bain_sidhe]

68. "our democrat elected officials" ??

Don't you mean "our democratic elected officials"?

Just askin'

[whalerider55]

71. nope

kerry. biden. pelosi. bayh. fitzgerald.
reid. rendell. dodd. schumer.

there is a list of folks who've really said nothing. for me, i guess this rises above the level of politics. not all of the repugs are soulless thieves- where is Lugar? McCain?

if our hunch about vote mucking is right, we may not have a lot of democratically elected officials, no?

whalerider55

[sunnystarr]

94. I share your frustration (nt)

[whalerider55]

99. welcome aboard,

y'all!

whalerider55

[SoCalDemGrrl]

120. Wait a minute!! Whalerider has a point.. The Dems seems to have deserted

us. I too will hold off on final judgement, but I have to say that at this point we are running on fumes here.. and the brave work of Bev Harris & Co.
Sometimes the Democratic Party is too cautious and polite. Remember how James Baker reamed us a new one in 2000 because Gore wanted to "play nice".

[whalerider55]

129. welcome aboard, socal-

welcome to the place where elite meet to debeet...

whalerider55

[SoCalDemGrrl]

138. Thanks for the gracious welcome!

[liberal al zib]

76. You are just

being realistic my fellow DUer.

I joined DU recently and I am really shocked by the degree of denial, and sorry to say it "delusion", that many people have here. It is really sad.

[whalerider55]

82. welcome aboard

liberal al zib.

may your posts be as manifold as Halliburton tax credits, and as deep as George SOros' pockets...

your 'umble servant.
whalerider55

[pacalo]

114. And I'm highly suspicious of any "Democrat" who isn't hopeful about

finding out the truth, after what we went through in 2000. And you have only 24 posts.

[whalerider55]

131. 8_Year....

truth requires asking questions and moving beyond the party line. i've no beef with anyone who has doubts where there might be... i like my reality unvarnished, i'll supply the faith. so doubts are welcome here, as far as i'm concerned.

and it only took John Kennedy O'Toole one book to win a belated, posthumous Pulitzer. No one will make it to 30 posts if you give them a wedgie at 29 posts. and that will take another voice out of the dialogue....

so, how about you just figure out which of us rattle your world, and click us into the land of ignore-ance.

i remember reading a message from a moderator in the closing month of the election asking us to take care of each other and not try to split along newbie/oldie borders. i thought that was terrific advice. still is,

whalerider55

[Joe Chi Minh]

135. Why is it

you pessimists seem to believe there will be no powerful Republicans who will be glad to see normalcy restored to the fabric of the nation, in so many of its aspects currently abolutely haywire?

Bear in mind, what's more, that more than 10% of habitual Republicans voted for Kerry.

[Clinton Crusader]

44. I heard this too, but cant remember where now..

there were 17,000 lawyers on the ground in OH

[wildflower]

66. The 17,000 lawyers were reported here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x69779

Recount efforts in Ohio by Kerry intensify

"We have 17,000 lawyers working on this, and the grassroots accountability couldn't be any higher -no (irregularity) will go unchecked. Period," Kerry spokesman David Wade said.

The report came originally from this article:

http://www.northcountynews.com/archives_2004/11-17-04/news5.htm

[trayfoot]

67. How do we really know?

"17,000 lawyers. Something more than just making sure every vote is counted is going on. They must think they have a real chance of finding the extra votes or fraud." Kerry2win said.


How do we know any of this? We sit here, in the dark and speculate about what is happening. If there were more info from BBV or whoever, the recount efforts would probably get more money and volunteers. But, we hear little.

[whalerider55]

73. welcome aboard...

trayfoot.

pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

whalerider55

[trayfoot]

81. Thanks, whalerider

I have also supported the recounts with money. I just am not convinced that anything substantial is happening. And I believe that trying to parse every word Kerry says in a video message or his daughter say in a Larry King interview is just grasping at straws.


I am still trying to get used to this board. It is far more complicated that most of the boards I've been on. So, I'll probably screw up - just cut me some slack! LOL!

[kerry2win]

75. we don't know

I would hope there are but it's hard for me to believe that...time will tell soon enough

[whalerider55]

83. nothing wrong with faith

my friend....

but blind faith tends to get you porked in the rear a lot.
which, if you like that, is fine by me.

whalerider55

[kerry2win]

85. one way street....

pork yourself....

[whalerider55]

89. unless

my sense of humor has deserted me, iu believe i've just been insulted.

sigh. i see that the democratic in democratic underground doesn't really allow for differences of opinion.

tell me, friend-- how does that make us any better than the freeps and creeps and redneck bleeps who simply won't let their POV be disturbed by a differing reality- or reality, for that matter.

porked? not by a half-measure. not even by a quarter-measure.

whalerider55

[kerry2win]

92. don't take it serious

[whalerider55]

93. done

or undone.

whalerider55

[Joe Chi Minh]

136. You're not

deceiving anyone. And I'm more than happy to insult you. Good to see your logo. You begin to make sense.

[petepillow]

53. Look at this for a whole bunch of insight about your question topic.

Check out this discussion taking place elsewhere on DU. There are some incredibly insightful posts, a few interesting conspiracy theories, and a whole lot of intelligent speculation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=68962

[Clinton Crusader]

54. I tried reading that thread, but I just couldnt follow it anymore...

It was going around in circles and I STILL dont know exactly what saracat was trying to say..
:shrug:

[democraticinsurgent]

128. saracat's thread and votescam...

i just finished re-reading the saracat threat referenced above. and reading the first three chapters of the votescam book by the Collier brothers. www.votescam.com.

saracat is basically saying there's a broader conspiracy of vote fraud that involves both r's and d's, but Kerry wasn't in on it, though some of his staff were.

The votescam book, at least thru the first three chapters, lays out evidence for systematic vote fraud since the early 1970's.

Combining the two lines of thinking leads to the conclusion that our elections have been steered/stolen/managed for three decades. E-voting is just making it simpler/easier to do so.

Which, if you buy that, explains why the Dems went along with HAVA and didn't raise a stink after 2002. And perhaps why things are quiet now on some Dem fronts. Though Kerry may not be a signatory to this kind of a deal, he surely knows now and may not know exactly how to fight it, though he'd like to.

Which then lends support to why it's Nader, Cobb and Badnarik filing for recounts, and why BBV is leading the fight, and why DU is also at the forefront, instead of the Kerry campaign. They MAY NOT BE ALLOWED to lead it. But if there is real evidence turned up by we little folk, then Prosecutor Kerry may have his eye on bringing down the whole conspiracy.

That Howard Dean and Jesse Jackson would say what they are saying also lends some credence to this hypothesis.

Now, I'm not saying I believe this. But it does tend to hold a bit of water in the broader context, does it not?

[brindis_desala]

134. Bingo!

2000, 9-11 ...2004? three strikes you're out! Americans need to get serious about democracy before its too late.

[Syd_]

55. IF there is a plan

and nobody here can figure it out, maybe it's a good enough plan that Rovian hubris and arrogance is blinding them. The "fatal flaw" has contributed to the downfall of kings all through out history.

[whalerider55]

61. good point

but i shudder to think we are comparing this to a monarchy.

then again, with a court full of jesters....

whalerider55

[bywho4who]

70. I'm Sure

I can hear headmaster(322)Jay Telling Kerry now back down underling:grr:






:smoke: :hippie:

[angrydemocrat]

102. Well Look At It This Way People

First off you should never say never. We can't say for sure that this election won't be overturned until it is over. When I say over I mean over as in Jan 6. because if something isn't done by then you can truly say it is over, there is no hope left to overturn anything. In the meantime anything is possible. Yes they would fight to stay in power but Kerry and his supporters would fight right back and send their A$$ packing. If the American people elected Kerry the repukes will have to get over it. That is the whole point of having a election. And yes we can force them out. Next if this election is not overturned that should just make everyone angrier and fight that much harder and stand behind Kerry to bring Bushco down. To bring down anyone that was involved in all this fraud and intimidation. We need to stand up and fight these bastards all the way. Someone said there was no way of impeachment well I respectfully disagree. Have you seen all the imformation that is here on DU about Bush and his people being tied to the 9-11 tragedy if not I suggest you go look into. It is some very shocking stuff. Sickening too. Then when reading all of that keep in mind how Kerry brought down BCCI and there was democrats and republicans involved in that but he didn't let that stop him from doing the right thing and that was bring it down. And according to what is being said in the imfo on DU there are democrats and republicans involved in this to. You may not agree with me on this but I think there are many in Washington that are scared to death of a Kerry presidency for they are afraid of what he and his cabinet would discover. But Kerry can still look into this wether he is in the White House or not. It will just make it more of a challange to do it from the position he is in now and you have people like Bush and his cabinet getting in the way but that doesn't mean this man can't do it. If you go back and read up on BCCI he had democrats and republicans trying to stop him but this man didn't let that stop him he did what was right for the American people. But if you havn't looked at all this imfo please do. It is here on DU. Then once you read all this then tell me this man couldn't be impeached. Anyway I will say this Bush and they repukes look as Kerry as a threat when it comes to there crooked illegal crap and they would like more than anything to see Kerry gone just drop dead but Kerry isn't going anywhere. We need to stand behind this man and support him all the way people because I'm telling he can help us in more ways than one. Kerry is on our side not their's! Go read the article : "Attorney States He Has Proof Bush Ordered 9-11 Attacks" there will be other links to more imfo there.

[whalerider55]

105. a-demo

i was the one who doubted impeachment- but a more careful reading of my post was that i doubted he could be impeached for this electoral fraud, but that there was ample reaosn to thing he could be impeached on lots of other things- as per your own suggestions.

also, i have strong memories of the Nixon Impeachment proceedings; where there was a careful attempt to slowly build bipartisan support for a carefully made case (remember, one of the articles of impeachment had to do with an illegal expansion into Cambodia during the Vietnam war, and lying about it). I remember Trent Lott was on that committee- i don't think he ever did vote Nixon out...
anyway, there is nothing like that comity existing in the house/senate today; there are no leaders on both sides of the aisle like Howard Baker and Lowell Wiecker.

Hence the CLinton impeachment, where the squirrels waved their priuvate parts at the nation and then ran and hid when the time came to vote... it wouldn't surpise me that short of a president shooting homeless people withan assault weapon from the portico of the white house, we won't see an impeachment again in our generation...
still, I believe it is warranted here, and would support any movement (and have supported the movement to track that bugger right into the heart of the vampire...

and i hope none of posts tonite have given anyone the impression that i am impugning kerry as a man or as a politician- i live in MA and have had the chance to work with him on constituent issue or two.

i think he has gonads of steel, if he is a tad tentative every now and again.

whalerider55

[angrydemocrat]

109. I Don't Live In MA. But

I have come to know him pretty good myself. Not personally but from working on the campaign and watching him on C-Span over the years. I would love to meet him personally. It makes my blood boil when so many around here cll the man names and make nasty remarks about him. To me that says they don't know much about him. I wish he was our senator instead we get stuck with Frist. I'm hoping to get rid of him in 2006. Anyway you have to admit Kerry is one of the best senators we have in washington right now and he would be a great president. I have alot of respect for this man because he truly does work for the poor, middle class, working people of this country. Unlike so many others we have in Washington.

[whalerider55]

110. no beef with you there.

i do think he's an honorable man, he's lived in Ted Kennedy's shadopw and has made a good name for himself as an "investigative" senator, and not specifically as a legislator.

i think he could be a roosevelt. and i think will need one by '08.

whalerider55

[angrydemocrat]

113. I will have his back

If he runs in 2008 I will work just as hard as I did this time to support him again. I don't mind working for a man that really stands up for what's right and works for the American people. I also think the days of being in Kennedy's shadow is over. I think we will be seeing a whole lot more of Kerry. I also feel he is going to Bush and all his croanies worst nightmare.

[AusTexDem]

86. I think what they know is

that they have to make some kind of effort if there is going to be any possibility of getting the nomination in 08.
if it's any thing else I'd be very surprised.

[whalerider55]

91. aye

as a MA resident with ties to the dem party, them's the rumblings i've heard...

whalerider55

[nolabels]

111. Throwing a little water on that case of wishful thinking

Have you checked the track record, I think the handicap stinks :shrug:

Real revolutions are made by idealists putting their labors into action, the comfortable beware, the pot is a boiling

[EC]

116. Kerry got

Bush I and Reagan on the Iran-Contra affair, got Neil Bush for the Savings and Loan Scandal, etc., he can crack the cases, I think he will this one too. Ever since his meeting with Nader when nothing was revealed about the meeting, I got the feeling, they were working together to set up * and crew. Maybe all that will be accomplished is cleaner elections in the future, I hope for more, but then we'll at least have a clear chance in 06 and 08 and can win back the country and stop this take-over.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

122. SPEAKING OF NADER

Has anyone heard how his recount has been going?

BTW... I posted on another thread that I believe that Kerry and Nader might have set up a sting of sorts, and maybe even from the beginning of Nader's candidacy. He took money from the Republicans to get him on the ballots, and to help finance his run..and then yes, he did meet with Kerry. He then has initiated the recount in New Hampshire, only in districts where Bush was supposed to lose by between 5-15%. Areas that optical scanners were used. If he could expose fraud there, that might open a way to a recount for a prize sweeter than Ohio, Florida! That would be so in line with Nader and his original roots, to protect "We The People".

[breadandwine]

126. FLASH BULLETIN! Blogger calls march on Fox NOW!

Combined protest against Fox and the rigged election —

The objective is specifically to challenge the wall of silence on the rigged election by news outlets like Fox and make a breakthrough —

Please spread this around, check it out and kick it —

A blogger has posted an extremely detailed, specific call to protest the rigged election AND the suppression of the truth ABOUT the rigged election by Fox News — a combined event mass march protest to be held in New York City — AT — Fox headquarters on 6th Avenue —

Main protest chant —

“Rupert Murdoch, tell the truth! Fascists rigged the voting booth!”

Nobody thinks of marching against a news organization in the streets. This is going to be a shot heard round the world.

Very comprehensive protest plan with very helpful travel details, the works —

See blog on this,

“A Call To March On Fox —

For refusing to tell the truth about the rigged election!” —

http://acalltomarchonfox.blogspot.com/

Discussion thread in General Discussion Forum — please help keep this kicked —

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2688242

“A Call To March Against The Rigged Election”

Please spread these links around to help us organize this.

Please join that discussion there and help keep it kicked. Marching on Fox starts at post 117. But read the whole discussion. And read the blog. Discussion also discusses an earlier blog on marching against the rigged election and media. Second blog being discussed is on a specific, detailed call to march on Fox specifically as a key initial part of this protest against the rigged election. Fox is a key ENABLER of the rigged election. They’d never get away with election rigging on such a vast scale if it weren’t for news suppressers/distorters like Fox. Read both blogs.

Tremendously detailed comprehensive blog —

It gives the exact location in New York City of all of Rupert Murdoch’s empire, New York Post, Fox News, News Corporation (Murdoch’s big parent company — it owns almost everything else he’s got) — all of that — it’s all in a single building on 6th Avenue between 47th Street and 48th Street in mid-Manhattan. Murdoch’s own office is in the building too. We can be chanting against him right outside his window. All their offices are not on very high floors either — as low as the second floor — they’ll see and hear us and have to pass us on the way in. All those blow-hard Fox talking heads lying about the election — we’ll be in direct shouting matches with them as they come and go. And Fox itself is on the SECOND Floor. How good is their studio soundproofing in there????? Everybody at Fox is going to be bitching that they can’t get any work done. There’s no way they can hush this up.

Since it’s a vicious circle — news organizations like Fox suppress our protests, making them seem futile, therefore the proposal is to combine objectives and protest Fox AND the rigged election TOGETHER right outside Murdoch’s building and tie the two evils together — “Murdoch suppresses the truth about the rigged election!” — and invite other New York news organizations, many of whom DETEST Murdoch, to cover it. (You didn’t know New York news people and news executives hate Murdoch? Blog goes into that a lot.)

Blog has many links to anti-Murdoch resources and video of Bill O’Reilly telling everybody to shut up, shut up, shut up, over and over. What a sewer rat! Right on camera! He looks really mean and drunk in one of the film clips. Jack Daniels? And he’s on camera hotly lecturing us, “It is our duty as all loyal Americans to shut up.” The video nails him good — and Fox. Blog gives other video links too.

Tired of being told to shut your trap? Open it. March against Fox and the rigged election in New York City.

But the idea is to put it all together, to protest and denounce Fox outside their offices for leading the COVER-UP of the election heist. It’s a shot across the bow to the rest of the media that they better start telling the truth about the election, or they’ll get protests like the one at Fox. All the national news media are based in Manhattan. They can’t say this protest was too out of the way to get to.

Blog also has links to downloadable anti-Fox flyers, petitions and other resources against Fox that could be distributed at the protest march.

Blog goes into tremendous detail about the strategy, the advantages of starting protests in New York as opposed to other cities (huge liberal population would augment people coming from out of town), and it’s the news media capital of the world. Very friendly terrain. New York Democratic congressmen are demanding investigation of the stolen election. No rednecks in the population or the government, no paranoid security apparatus like you have in D.C.

Blog includes complete “mother lode” total orientation guide to using New York subways with downloadable maps you can enlarge, how to use mass transit to get from Amtrak’s Penn Station to the march, how to use mass transit to get from the airports to the march.

Let’s make it happen!

Keep kicking that thread so everyone will hear of this!

[bklyncowgirl]

127. This could explain the "Silence of the Democrats"

It's the only explanation for leaders who normally couldn't care less what the DNC tells them to do.

I'm talking about people like Sharpton, Jackson and others who one would thing would be screaming to high heaven over black people being forced to wait 8 hours to vote in Ohio.

Also a guy like Dean who put alot of energy into floating a petitiion to congress requiring paper trails on electronic voting machines.

Quite frankly, this is just wierd.

[Dr Fate]

139. I would love to be suprised & have some faith restored...

...I swear Imma gonna freak if DEMS cant ever grow a pair...

[texpatriot2004]

140. I do get the feeling they know something we don't.

I definitely get the feeling something is going on. I have walked through the looking glass. Up is down, black is white, big is small...it's weird. I can sense that something is brewing.