"Bush won" is the REAL conspiracy theory

[scottxyz]

We have two strains of thought: One is that every single indicator of who would win and was winning the presidential election was wrong because of a stealth campaign by Bush that was largely invisible and occurred almost entirely below the radar, to the extent that nothing was indicating a Bush win (except for some cooked polls that have been picked apart to the point of destruction). The other is that the vote itself was cooked.

The first strain is clearly conspiracy theory: that the Republicans somehow, deliberately, managed to hide their campaign and their support completely from experienced watchers who were looking for them, yet somehow their supporters showed up to overwhelm Kerry supporters at the last minute, and nobody saw them.

The facts clearly support the second strain of thought - that the vote was cooked - but the media has chosen to believe that despite any evidence on the ground, a lot of mysterious Bush voters happened to be there when no one was looking. And lied to the exit polls. And did this only in places that were using electronic voting machines owned by a highly-partisan Bush-supporter who had publicly vowed to do whatever he could to bring home the election for Bush.

To believe the "Bush won" conspiracy theory, you have to believe that not only Zogby was wrong, but that both Democrats and Republicans completely altered their behavior and switched their voting patterns, and that Republicans did this in such a way that nobody noticed it even while it was happening.

http://sideshow.me.uk/snov04.htm#221519

[progressoid]

1. How about this theory

Americans are dumbasses. Sorry, I keep coming back to that one because it's so simple.

[scottxyz]

4. Some Americans are indeed dumbasses

And most of them have low post counts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=72016&mesg_id=72016

Mods, excuse my ad hominem - or ad feminem - tone. I am just tired of trolls cynically calling Americans stupid - when the simpler explanation is vote fraud.

[progressoid]

6. Jeepers, I didn't mean to upset anyone

It's just that even if the election count were exactly the opposite, there would still be 56 million people that voted for b*. That's A LOT of dumbasses.

I know people from Europe that have asked how this could happen in the USA. I tell them that our election system is broken and corrupt. I tell them that the GOP's vicious, mean campaign was unfortunately effective. And I tell them that a lot of Americans are DUMBASSES.

I don't deny that there is hacking and dirty deeds being perpetrated here, but a majority of the votes b* got were cast by Americans that really believe that he's the man for the job. That's the sad part.


p.s. On DU, do we automatically assume most people with low post counts are trolls? Is there a magic number after which I can honestly post without suspicion? 100? 200? 1000?

[scottxyz]

7. You're right

It wasn't your post count. It was your content that made me think you were trolling.

I try to be optimistic - I don't think Americans are stupid. Just lied to by their media, their poller and now by their own voting machines. Under such a barrage of lies, even intelligent people might get confused.

Quality of information, and healthy skepticism, are the answers. Americans need to learn to stop trusting the lies in the media and get quality information - or they risk looking stupid.

[progressoid]

12. I guess was a little too vague

I should have said b voters are dumbasses. Of course, I have to watch my tongue in the next couple days as I get to sit down for dinner with a bunch of rabid repubs. My sarcasm doesn't mix well wth that smug, 'we won' look on their faces for Thanksgiving.

It's hard to understand how people that I would normally see as semi-rational & semi-intelligent being hood winked so easily.

Oh well, back to work

[magellan]

19. I hear you, Progressoid

I have an aunt who's the same way. She's a Republican, tells me Progressive is just another word for Socialist (like there are no acceptable forms of socialism -- faith-based charities, anyone?), and has the temerity to suggest *I* stop drinking the kool-aid. This is a college-educated woman in her 60s and she's made it clear she's content with what she thinks she knows.

Experiencing this closed-minded intolerance from a relative makes it very easy to fall into the trap of labeling all Americans who voted Bush** "dumbasses". But what most of them really are is utterly brainwashed by the BushCo propaganda machine. They don't see how they continue to make excuses for criminal actions they'd never let a Democrat get away with.

[BlueDog2u]

24. You've got a point

Even if you do have a suspiciously low number of posts. B-)

[Stand and Fight]

10. No, they're not... They're misinformed.

I don't like this talk of Americans being dumb-asses. Hear me out before you guys demand my head on a platter. I believe that Americans are woefully ill-informed, and I think it largely has to do with the corporate media. I mean, we know what is going on because we don't rely on two types of media; that is, newspapers and television. We have watched CNN and Fox News and the others cover up for Bush's failures, lies, and outright deception of the American people. The so-called "liberal media" is a thing of the past that someone like Nixon would relish. What we have now is the Crappy News Network and the Faux News Channel -- if they aren't biased I don't know what is. I can tell you from living in Oklahoma that the local papers are very biased in reporting their news. A lot of Americans rely on unreliable sources without realizing it. As the old saying goes, "Ignorance is bliss."

[nolabels]

14. Even worse they are trained

They are trained to fit in, be the good little Lilliputians that fit into this idealized fantasy some folks keep on trying to dream up.

It's unsustainable and will have crashed in due time all by it's self, but I don't disapprove of your helping it by giving it a little extra push. Mostly things don't happen till people really understand how broke it is.

Did George Orwell really coin the word "smartbomb" :crazy:

[progressoid]

15. Yep

Remember when Rush and his douche bag dittoheads used to call CNN the Clinton News Network because it was so liberal! I almost never watch national or cable news - there is no reason. Here on the IA/NE border, the local media either leans right or is just infective.

[Stand and Fight]

16. Yeppers

And so many of those types will decry that there local news and CNN and Fox News are the best dammed thing since sliced bread.

[keepthemhonest]

2. i agree

I am so sick of the republicans that I talk to keep saying "the election is over, get over it" attitude. I hand them a bigpath.net flyer and say it is irrelevant whether it is over, independants, republicans and democrats should all agree that we need a paper print out when we vote and auditability of an election.

Republicans seem so black and white on issues, democrats see things in shades of gray. Republicans think that there is only one right answer, theirs. Democrats try to see things from domeoneoops freudian slip I meant someone) elses angle.

Close minded bastards

[goclark]

3. Americans are smart, Rove is smarter

We let him steal it again.

Let's keep working to expose the fraud.

[keepthemhonest]

5. no republicans the election is not over

if you would read the paper once in a while, you would see they are still counting ballets in a few states and there is going to be a recount.


If they can't prove this... gosh darnet I give up on this conspiracy theory and I give up on elections

[tngledwebb]

8. funny typo....forgive me.

I don't think bush, aka commander earpiece, has ever been to a ballet, even if he could count them.

[driver8]

27. I agree...

If this election fraud somehow "slips through the cracks" without being resolved in some way, our chances for ever having a fair election again are very, very slim.

That is a tough pill to swallow...

[MarkusQ]

9. Ah hem.

Republicans think that there is only one right answer, theirs.

Please don't paint us all with the same brush. As one of many Republicans working to defend what's left of our democracy I object to being lumped with the jerks that hijacked my party on their way to hijacking my country. Bush is no more a legitimate representative of the whole Republican party than he is a legitimate representative of all America.

The is not a partisan issue. Every single right thinking American should be yelling from the roof tops, demanding fair, open, and honest elections. Think about it. The only reason anyone could rationally object is if either they personally cheated or if they suspect their side cheated and winning is more important to them then their integrity.

--MarkusQ

[Stand and Fight]

11. Amen

As a former long-time Republican I whole-heartedly agree with you.

[genieroze]

13. Not to mention the moderate republicans

who are being harassed by the rethugnakins. Bush and his Reich Wing religious ilk are harassing them.

This is from one of my favorite conservatives

Our problem is with ... the religious extremists ...
who want to destroy everybody who doesn't agree with
them. I see them as betrayers of the fundamental principles
of conservatism. A lot of so-called conservatives today
don't know what the word means. (1994)

Conservative Republican Presidential Candidate, Barry Goldwater

[Stand and Fight]

17. Nixon

If Nixon was around today I think the current trend in the MSM would be his wetdream, but I do believe -- being a student of his political philoshophies, albeit some of the later ones -- that he'd have a real problem with today's right wingers.

[genieroze]

18. Goldwater hated Nixon

LOL

"Nixon was the most dishonest individual I have
ever met in my life. He lied to his wife, his family,
his friends, his colleagues in the Congress, lifetime
members of his own political party, the American people
and the world"

Barry Goldwater

[Vidar]

20. But Barry never met W. Nixon a saint by comparison.

[BlueDog2u]

25. Sad, but true

Nixon was an old fashioned anti-communist lying crook. Bush is a born again egomaniacal sociopath.

[keepthemhonest]

23. i apologize

you can't be bad if you are fighting for democracy

[MarkusQ]

28. Ditto

you can't be bad if you are fighting for democracy

My sentiments exactly.

I (and, thank goodness, a lot of other Republicans) are trying to break through the mass-media fueled hyper-partisan mania and communicate the legitimate concerns of voters on both sides of the fence to those on the other side. That, in fact, is the main reason I signed up here--to work as a sort of anti-"freeper" and let people know that it isn't red-vs-blue, it's honest people vs. corruption.

In addition to reminding the Democrats here that almost all Republicans are actually honest and want fair elections more than victory, I'm gleaning all the insightful, fact-based point that I see and passing them on to non-neocon-Republicans to remind them that Democrats are Americans too, and have a legitimate interest in our nation's integrity--I fancy myself sort of a one-man anti-Fox, trying to spread the truth as best I can.

--MarkusQ

[keepthemhonest]

29. thank you for shedding some light on me

you have given me hope

you are right it is honest people vs. corruption

and when I am handing out flyers, I hand them to everyone for that very reason.

[Avalux]

21. I'm in your camp

there are so many things that don't add up, including my own personal experiences while campaigning for Kerry.
If Democrats believe we lost and go into a tailspin (causing us to lose sight of our roots) - the repugs will really have won - by cleverly making us doubt ourselves.

[leftchick]

22. Thank you for finding this scott!

I felt a lull last week in the momentum for the fraud exposure. Links like this as well as the return of Keith O have helped me feel things are heating up. We do need someone as a mouthpiece to get on the state run TV. I know it won't be Kerry, though it was great to actually see him say something recently. Please y'all, We Need a Leader in this fight!! Any suggestions as to whom to recruit?

[glitch]

26. What an excellent blog - thanks for posting. nt