How can we raise the $l.5 Million for Ohio to do a recount? Do we need

[KoKo]

to raise this money at all. If we do, should we start now? Is it possible some "high rollers with consciences" would give us "matching funds" if we can get something going? Or, should we wait and see if Ohio has to pay for it itself? Is raising the money fast if we need to, the most important thing to keep Blackwell from dragging his feet? Should Kerry/Edwards "Recount Fund" chip in NOW for the recount? Lots of questions we need to get answered before the Turkey stuff dulls our minds.

Snip from Olberman's Blog about this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

The issue may boil down to money. The Glibs had raised $235,000 as of Monday morning, an amount which covers the $113,600 bond they had to provide as demanded by Ohio election law, plus some of their own organizational expenses. But Cunningham said the actual expenses would “crush county governments,” and a spokesman for Blackwell said the final cost could be $1.5 million.

So there it is. There will be a recount in Ohio. Unless there won’t be. And the Kerry campaign staff will participate in it. Unless that’s too strong a word for them.

[MrUnderhill]

1. Simple. Convince Sorros

I wash back and forth on this whole fraud thing... but if there was ANY legitimate chance of winning this thing, I have no doubt that he wouldn't even blink at turning $25 Million in to $26 Million.

[helderheid]

15. You said it

Who knows how to contact George? MoveOn?

[Cobalt Violet]

2. You'd think with all our Hollywood Liberal Friends we could.

:shrug:

[bullimiami]

3. kerry has it already. if he is involved it shouldnt be a problem.

there are indications that k/e are getting more involved.
and we can always raise more if we need to. weve proven that.

[tridim]

4. Hold it right there Blackwell..

The price is $113.600 by law, not $1.5 million. I don't give a crap if it's actually going to cost more.. The law is the law. If you don't want to follow the law then quit, you Repuke sack of shit.

[Kralizec]

5. Hence the "crush county governments," the parties don't have to pay

that. Unfortunately, if he is right, then that does suck for local govts. Which is a good reason alone for Kerry to help.

[smartvoter]

6. If it comes to this, Kerry had better pony up.

[electropop]

7. Where did all the GELAC money go?

Kerry is obligated to pay up. He took the money and promised to count every vote.

[jdog]

9. But

You know, they required the $115,000 in order for a recount to be demanded. Now they've upped the ante. Who's to say they won't put another financial roadblock in the way next? They need for a recount comes from THEIR incompetence - why are the recounters the only ones who have to pay????

[ebayfool]

10. Read closer - it's already paid.

There is a difference between what law requires to be paid & Blackwell's 'estimate'. Just more GOP whining & trying to get out of recounting. No sympathy here - if the shoe was on the other foot does anyone think *ush would dig in his campaign pockets? Come on people, it's a distraction!

[KoKo]

8. But, if someone would come forward NOW it would beat the Repugs at

their own game. They couldn't scream that Ohioans would have too big a burden placed on them by the counties having to pony up the money for a recount. It would make Ohioans much more responsive to supporting a recount if they knew they didn't have to pay and it would difuss the Repugs stiring them up to fight the recount by having to pay for it out of their tax dollars. :shrug:

It's important to Pre-empt them on this....Otherwise there will just be arguing back and forth. But, I don't know how we can get this out there.

[Eloriel]

KoKo, the law doesn't support Blackwell on this --

why not find a bridge we really DO need to cross to fret about instead of one of your own imagining that will never materialize? Sorry to be gruff about this, but you're sending DUers into a totally needless tizzy here.

[ebayfool]

21. Another voice of reason - TY!

[KoKo]

25. No, not sending folks into "tizzy"..lol's... getting folks to think about

ways to deal with this. Read later down on the thread and see the interesting comments. We know Blackwell is going to harp on the recount costs. Other than finding the 1.5 mil ourselves what are the other solutions. I feel it's a valid concern.

[bones_7672]

11. The recount won't be completed in time to make ANY difference.

The election won't be certified until 12/3. A recount can THEN be requested, but the electors will be chosen by, what?, 12/13. No way on God's Green Earth that the recount will be done by then. Whoever spends the $1.5 mill will be flushing it down the proverbial rat hole.

[Straight Shooter]

12. Blackwell tries to make this an issue of wasting taxpayers' money

Hey, Katherine Blackwell, you never so much as uttered a peep at bush's one-million-dollar-plus prancing prince show on the U.S.S. Lincoln, did you? Remember that one-million-dollar-plus "Mission Accomplished" fiasco?

Also there's the matter of the five-billion-dollar-plus monthly cost for Bush's War in Iraq. Haven't heard you complain about that yet.

Suck it up and shut up. This is how America works. You never should have believed Rove when he said it would be a cakewalk. You should pay for it yourself, if you had one ounce of integrity.

[pointsoflight]

13. We don't need to raise money.

State law, which can't be changed after the fact, says that a recount will cost $113,600.

The statement from Blackwell is not about how much we have to pay for the recount, but is his claim of how much it will actually cost the state and therefore how much the state will lose (given that they're only being paid the $113K).

Let's face it, he's trying to get the public against the recount by saying it's very costly and a waste of money.

[ebayfool]

20. Thank you - A sane reader!

I'm starting to get frustrated by rants that aren't based on fact here. Read, people - read!

[kk897]

22. from what I understand

The actual cost of the recount, above what the candidates have to pay, is borne by the county, although the State can step in to give the county money. That's really why the county folks are getting up in arms about a possible recount. But Ohio's budget has been stretched pretty thin lately, so I don't know how they'll step up and give the counties the money they need.

Well, phooey, I can't find the link right now. I'll keep looking.

[KoKo]

23. That's my point. Blackwell will turn support for a recount against us by

telling Ohioans that this will drain states resources and plant in their minds that their taxes will go up because some "internet bloggers" are complaining.

We need the full support of the average citizen there. And to get it, we announce that we can pay for the recount (if evidence is shown that a full recount is necessary) and that beats back Blackwell's strategy.

Right now Blackwell can moan and groan about the State Government having to pay for something that's "frivolous" (as Ann Coulter types would position it) and if we Kerry/Edwards Voter Recount Fund or some person with deep pockets comes and says...We will pay then it beats the Repugs at their own game.

But...the problem with this is that it would set a precedent for other states to demand that Campaigns pay not only for filing fees and such as
Cobb/Baradnik/Nader have, but that they must also reimburse the state for the money to pay the people who do the recount and the rental of facilities, etc. That's the problem. But in the case of Ohio where time is of the essense it might be worth it for a one time situation. Again, though, would it be legal to reimburse the state. :shrug:

[drm604]

14. Let's do some math here...

The bond required by Ohio law is $113,600. Ohio law says $10 per precinct. So if we divide 113600 by 10 we get the number of precints, 11360. Katherine Blackwell's spokeman says that the actual cost could be $1.5 million. Notice that he said "could" so it's possible that he's fudging this figure, but let's assume that it's correct. If we divide his figure by the number of precincts we have 1500000 / 11360 = 132 and change. The GLIBs are paying $10 per precinct so that leaves these poor hard suffering precincts with a "crushing" cost of $122 each.
:nopity:

[New Earth]

16. lol

[pointsoflight]

17. Excellent. $122 per precinct! We need to get this out to the media!

[KoKo]

24. An Excellent Point, there. If your math is correct then that needs to be

pointed out. Perhaps an opportunity for an e-mailing campaign if it comes to the point where Blackwell tries to make the $1.5 Million an issue.

[drm604]

26. KoKo01, the math is correct.

It's simple division and subtraction, nothing complicated. Anyone can doublecheck me on their Windows calculator. Maybe I'll contact Olberman with this.

[KoKo]

27. Not dissing you.....I'm terrible with Math....Sending it to Olberman would

be good. Maybe he could use it if Repugs start to raise hell about Ohio Residents claiming they are "complaining county recount costs will break their budget and cause cutbacks in aid to children or the elderly because "selfish Democrats" demand a recount from honest, law abiding Ohio voters...." :shrug:

We know the Repugs attack when they are cornered. If there's something there they are trying to hide they will accuse us of any and everything to stop a full recount.

[kk897]

33. Last recount only cost them about $73K

I think that was in 91. Yes, clearly the poor-mouthing is a diversion.

[KoKo]

35. You gotta add "inflation to the '91" count though...I'm totally math

deficient...but I do understand the jist of stuff. Proving what I see belongs to the "Math People" but as a "Word Person" I do understand the "jist" of stuff. I just can't do the numbers to verify...It's great that on DU we have a diversity of minds pushing at each other and going for debate!

I wish I hadn't had the horrible quality of math teachers I did...because I really love math...I just have to rely on those who had a natural affinity..rather than those of us who were cut out...because no one could explain to us English Major Bookies...WHY???WHY???WHY???

And most high school teachers didn't get how to teach it to us "bookies." Or, maybe us bookies just don't have the development in one side of our brains to get it. I blame in on the teachers though...to this day :D...or :-( depending on one's perspective.

[life_long_dem]

37. Broken down further it comes out to about 20 cents per voter.

Assuming 7.8 million registered voters, from:
http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/st-ohio.html

[glitch]

18. Perhaps the state of Ohio should sue Blackwell for reparations - there is

a penalty for cheating, or gross incompetence, if that's all they can get him on.
The cheater should pay penalty.

[jdog]

19. Yes!

The cheater SHOULD pay a penalty - maybe that would be a dis-incentive to cooperate so D*** much!

[coreystone]

28. To Quote "tridim".......

"The price is $113.600 by law, not $1.5 million. I don't give a crap if it's actually going to cost more.. The law is the law. If you don't want to follow the law then quit, you Repuke sack of shit.


The law is the law! Period!!

Oh! By the the way, remind me not to get in a game of "OLD MAIDS" with these unethical "so and so's"!


:-(

[delphine]

29. Why the hell should we raise the money

when we've contributed to the campaign and the GELAC fund and they're sitting on it?

[Hobbes199]

30. If they came up with what's required by law

They can't be asked to come up with more, just for the hell of it.

If it _did_ come down to that, then I'd hope the DNC would step in with the cash. I think asking for us little folk to come up with 250k was a lot.

[spoogly]

31. Blackwell is dead wrong

Statute is very clear. Deposit is $10.00 per precinct. Actually, the Board is to set the actual cost. He is right to that extent. But the statute specifically says that the cost cannot be less than $5.00 and not more than $10.00 per precinct.

§ 3515.07. Charges for recount.
The charges for making a recount of votes of precincts listed in an application for a recount filed with the board of elections shall be fixed by the board ......... provided that the charges per precinct so fixed shall not be more than ten nor less than five dollars for each precinct the votes of which were recounted.

The statute actually goes on to say that if the costs are less than the $113,000, that the remainder must be refunded.

DUers should probably set Blackwell straight and let the press know in no uncertain terms that Blackwell is trying to play more games.

[coreystone]

32. MAYBE, Blackwell held an election in Ohio that would make him be proud....

Well! We can fantasize, RIGHT!

In my High School experience, it was not allowed to tear one's pen apart, take a "bit" of paper, wad it up, "chew" it in one's mouth, insert it in the lower half of the "ball point" pen, then choose a victim.

It was against the rules. If someone was caught, then, they were sent to the "principals" office; definitely not where any of my fellow students wanted to spend "hang time"!

NOW! Where is the "principal"???

Oh, Yes! I know! I know!

The "rule of Rules" does not apply here!

The "rule of LAW" does not apply here!

There is no principal, and, there will be no "enforcement" of the rules, or the laws, until those whom we have supported stand up!

:crazy:

[Carolab]

34. Jeeeeeezzzzzz -- just read this

http://www.votecobb.org/

[PeterPan]

36. well you know the government could save alot of money

by skipping this silly election business
since its all for show anyway
(i'm sure someone's working on this)