I'm Leaving the Democratic Party, Unless...

[Shalom]

...it makes a firm commitment to finance it's own exit polls in the 2006 election and beyond.

Look at it this way - many Democrats feel that:

1. The 2000 Presidential election was stolen through corruption and dishonesty in Florida and the US Supreme Court

2. There is strong evidence of fraud in the 2002 elections, such as the defeat of Max Cleland by an upstart

3. The 2004 elections have been conducted using unreliable and untraceable equipment and processes. Fraud has definitely occured, but the degree of fraud and whether it is responsible for the re-selection of George Walker Bushitler may never be proven.

4. The 2004 exit polls were outsourced by the major networks under a $10 million contract. They were not intended to serve as a a check against fraud (in spite of intent, they strongly suggest fraud has occured). The conduct of this exit poll and the release of data is governed by a contract negotiated by the networks. It is very likely that rather than fix this problem, the conduct of exit polls and release of data in future elections will be even more restricted.

5. Democrats contributed hundreds of millions of dollars directly to the Kerry campaign, and perhaps a total of 1 billion overall to this election. Besides the money, Democrats have an even greater stake in having fair elections: having a decent foreign and domestic policies.

6. Regardless of the mistakes made in the past, if the Democratic party does not wake up now and take corrective action, it will prove that it has been corrupted and emasculated, without a shadow of a doubt. Let's face it: financing our own exit polls is an insurance policy that costs 1/1000 of our the investment in the election, and 1/1000,000,000 of our investment in a democratic society. (Note that the DNC can contract with a consortium of independent pollsters to conduct exit polls, and provide for extensive audit and reviews, to ensure that it's results cannot be questioned)

7. If this occurs, I will leave the Democratic Party.

8. If others agree, I suggest we make this clear NOW to the DNC, and insist that they make this commitment NOW. There are enough of us to ensure that without our support, no Democratic candidate will have a prayer of winning enough votes in the future and/or have them counted fairly.

[IAMREALITY]

1. I appreciate your intent

But with all due respect, they need to do a Helllllll of a lot more than simply finance their own exit polls. Sure, that would be a nice to have, but I'd far rather first see the leaders grow some balls and fight the injustices as they happen, fight harder for audits, paper trails, media penetration, more talk radio, etc....

[genius]

33. We need to get rid of the DNC and put together a grass roots Democratic

organization. We have the numbers but the DNC doesn't care about Democrats. It doesn't represent up so it needs to go.

[liberalnurse]

2. The Party is about all of us.

Folks who leave can not effectively evoke change.......You have to be willing to work at change.......You already have begun the work by forming a clear opinion......Now find a proactive mode to express your opinion to the Party.

[crispini]

3. Yep, thank you liberalnurse.

It's a two step process. Forming the opinion, and then expressing it, to local and state party members, and the people who represent you on the DNC, and working for it.

In my experience, getting anything done in the Democratic party is generally accomplished by attending a fuckload of committee meetings, and by repeatedly expressing your opinion until everyone around you is so completely brainwashed by your expression of said opinion that they do it 'cause they think it's THEIR idea. :D

[bush_is_wacko]

8. Very astute crispini...

But it has also been my experience that when a greedy criminal Republican like Pete Coors shows up at a meeting and threatens to ship his massive business operations out of the state liberals inevitably side with the money factor. Money is power in America.

[sniffa]

4. i'm Leaving unLess

they give me a ton of money, an endLess bag of weed, and a house.

[bullimiami]

5. shalom i dont think that would help.

the dem financed exit polls would just be slammed as 'partisan' and the corrupt establishment would probably just create their own competing exit poll to obscure reality.

exit polls are not the problem. we need to fix all of the election machinery in the country.

I do agree with you though with a modification.

If the dems to not fight tooth and nail to get a bulletproof system, it is over. I will leave them and join the greens where my heart is anyway, Im a dem by compromise.

[Truman01]

6. I like your ideas, though I won't leave......

I think we should fight to see your ideas put into practice. One way for us to have a better idea about fraud is to have good exit polling. Good idea.

I won't leave the party if they don't do this because, where would I go?

TC

[Shalom]

7. It's Not a Cure-all, But a No-Brainer

This idea is not proposed as the ONLY thing that should be done, but I believe it is a no-brainer that it is one of the things that MUST be done.

Would you respect and support a Democratic party that went into the 2006 election with its pants down AGAIN ?

[Dr Strangelove]

10. I would like to see

a viable third party emerge to shake the dems and repugs into doing "the work of the people". As far as I am concerned they are both a little too hand in glove to actually get anything done.

[TwilightZone]

9. I'm sure leaving will help.

Where exactly do you plan on going?

Leaving the party is a meaningless threat until a third party proves that it can win even one electoral vote.

[Shalom]

12. A Party that Will not Protect Us Does Not Deserve Support

If you went boating, and one of your children drowned due to having a defective life jacket that costs $9.99, and you found out that there was a company who sold life jackets that were guaranteed to be inspected for $10.00, and you refuse to pay the extra penny for life jackets for your other children, what does that make you ?

[TwilightZone]

16. The exit polls are the least of our problems.

And, with all due respect, if you think that potentially faulty exit polling is the equivalent of losing a child, you need to step back and try to relocate reality.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

11. We're screwed unless the media starts doing thier job....

n/t

[Kralizec]

13. I already left the part after what they did to Dean. It was disgracefule.

However, during these tough times I vote for blue...

[Bread and Circus]

14. I've already left....no more money from me.

[library_max]

15. Would you trust exit polls paid for by Republicans?

Okay, then, how much credibility do you think they'll have if they're bought and paid for by the Democrats? The exit polls we need to demonstrate the overwhelming probability of fraud in the 2004 election already exist.

[freedom for all]

17. Everyone head to 1 blue state

I think the only recourse for some of us will be to head for 1 blue state and take total control over all branches of government. That is the only way we will have a little control over our life. Bush will destroy this country and it will not stop with him.. Elections will always be fixed and everything we love will be destroyed. Wake up everyone cause things are not changing but getting worse.. I guess we could sit around and say well they will not steal another election in 2006 & 2008. Or they will not keep us at war for ever while giving tax cuts to the wealthy. Or they will not destroy our freedoms,rights & good programs we have to help the poor..So all that being said which state should we choose? I think my family and I are moving to Oregan...We live in Tennessee and after this election I told her i could not live here anymore..The people here in east Tenn are just plain awful..

[SaveAmerica]

29. Wrong direction - move to a red state...

Hey there freedom for all, moving to a blue state would feel good but be counter-productive. Some of the southern red states have a good amount of blue mixed in, so moving to a blue county in a red state would be more helpful. Gather up any blue buddies in Eastern Tennessee and move to Charlotte (just about a 3 or 4 hour drive to Knoxville). We're going to need all the help we can get to re-educate the people in this state who voted for GW.

[keepthemhonest]

31. right on n/t

[Shalom]

19. I'd Look at Any Exit Polls Conducted by Independents

The suggestion tried to anticipate the charge of bias:

"Note that the DNC can contract with a consortium of independent pollsters to conduct exit polls, and provide for extensive audit and reviews, to ensure that it's results cannot be questioned"

Someone has suggested hiring Zogby: I'd go further, and hire a consortium of companies who are doing pre-exit polls.

Assume we had contracted such polls for the 2004, and we had detailed data that could be audited that implied massive fraud.
Don't you think the Democrats at least would be united in demanding recounts, and contesting the election?

We are talking about a tiny investment here...it's not perfect, but it's pretty dumb to go like a sheep to the slaughter again and again and again....

[keepthemhonest]

18. i don't know about leaving the party but I am certainly not voting

again until they can give us a paper record and a system that can be audited.

I like your idea about having our own polls except our opponents will think that it is biased. I am worried though that next time we vote, they are not going to let us see the exit polls AT ALL.So maybe we need to consider hiring zogby (we can do that right?) and have them give us the results.

we probably need to come up with a list of things that we want, in order for them to secure our vote, in the future elections.

let's start it

1.paper print out when we vote
2.auditability of elections
3.no black box( we want to know what system is operating the computer)
4.full access to exit poll data or we want our own

any one want to add more?

[freedom for all]

21. Dream on...

I wish we had voting machines with paper ballots, no black box, full access to polls and all the other things we should have but the point is we do not.. If you do not control any branch of government and the leaders who do represent you don't care then you are in trouble..
BBV & Crew, Randi Rhodes & others tried there best to get machines with paper trails in Florida and other places.. But they were stopped by our government..Its not like all this crap came up overnight or anything.. All these problems were well known before the election but the Dem's did nothing.. The press don't even care and if they did report it they may be charged with a crime..Notice how many reporters are going to jail these days..I don't mean to have such a bad attitude but the facts are the facts..
So again, Which blue state should we all move to?
1 vote for oregan...

[keepthemhonest]

23. why name yourself freedom for all if you do not believe in it?

I realise now that these were problems that the government was aware of and did nothing about.

I think that most americans will push for this election reform . what we have to do is persist and persist hard. the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

I admit that I had not heard anything ( not did I try to find out)about these problems. I for one am joining in Our forces here on the DU and wherever else I need to in order to get these problems fixed.

Doing nothing will get you nothing!

So here we go:grr: I just have to stay mad about it and that will keeep me going.

[freedom for all]

27. "keepthemhonest" read my posts better

i did not say do nothing.. if you have had your head under the ground for years its not my fault or if you are 16 you will have a rude awaking soon.. my suggestions was for us all to move to a blue state and elect reps who will keep our America alive..wake up & look around at the real world and you may see the real america..and for people to want freedom they must care about their freedom.. most people don't care until it affects them..sorry you have a problem with what i said.. but my words to you will not be negative or degrading.. please keep working hard to make a difference cause it is honorable and i commend you for it.. i will continue to fight also.. we may just be doing it in different places.. i think i will head to oregan..

[indigolady]

22. That's a counterproductive threat!

"i won't vote until they give us a paper record and a system that can be audited." OK, dems, let's join! d'ya think we'll get results? d'ya think they care?

The only kind of threats that work have to do with money and/or lawsuits. I don't know how much longer we have in the law department. The supremes are already in their pockets.

We can boycott certain products and companies.

There's always tax resisting (I'm afraid to do that!)

We can just get the word out, grassroots style, and create a public uprising. Peaceful, but outraged! I'm a NON VIOLENT democrat.

We need media coverage that doesn't make fun of those who are making the effort.

[keepthemhonest]

24. and I should go vote because?

let me see here. I go wait two hours to vote. so it can be changed into a vote for a republican. And then nobody has any proof.mmmmmmm


"We need media coverage that doesn't make fun of those who are making the effort" where is the media that will give you that? I am all for a peaceful demonstration though.

[Doohickie]

20. Bye

And don't let the door hit yer ass on the way out.

[Shalom]

25. So You Think This Is Too Much to Ask of the DNC ?

Let me get this straight, we are talking about something is under the control of the Democratic party.

NOT something we can blame on the media, or Karl Rove, or Kenneth Blackwell, or Bushitler....this is something the DEMOCRATIC PARTY can easily do.

Currently, the Democratic Party is sitting on $17 million to fix election fraud AFTER it has already occured, and we're suggesting that it could invest $10 million to PREVENT fraud, and IDENTIFY it clearly if it occurs.

And you are willing to just let a whole bunch of Democrats defect from the Party because it is too STUPID to take a little preventive action ?

[Doohickie]

28. No

But I don't think the ultimatum of one person makes a damned bit of difference.

[Gregorian]

26. Divided, they win.

I want to leave. I wanted to leave in 2000. And I can almost guarantee that Kerry won't ever see my vote again. His career versus democracy! What a crock of shit.

BUT, we divide, and the assholes win. That's what they want. Our house is on fire, there is no time for discussion.

Edit- I guess I have to say that if a third party appears to have a chance of winning, I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. I just don't think that'll happen.

[dewaldd]

30. I agree. I have completely lost faith in the dems.

[GetTheRightVote]

32. Over Thanksgiving I will march the National Mall even alone

I am sick of this inaction on our parts while our basic rights as Citizens is robbed from us as surely as cash from our pockets. Soon we will not be able to even put food on our tables, must we starve before we believe that they mean us no good. the writing is on the wall for all to read who wish to know the truth and the future is dimished everyday we sit in our homes and type messages to ourselves. I will march even if it is just me so I can believe that
tomorrow will be better because as one person with courage I marched alone.