Madsen Updates Report

[IAMREALITY]

There were calls for a new thread on this anyway. Thank you RosyHue for the link.

I think it is a really positive sign that additional information is coming out, rather then just a story that would get stale quickly. This thing may have legs yet! (will cross fingers, but remain cautious)

This is the link to the update

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112604Madsen/112604madsen.html

This is the link to the other DU thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x78323#81601

Link to the original:

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112504Madsen/112504madsen.html

[New Earth]

1. i'm still skeptical

:(

[IAMREALITY]

2. As is your right

But let's try to keep positive vibes goin ok? Depression can become infectious realllllllly quickly.

Even if you are still skeptical, you can still use a smiley ya know? TURN THAT FROWN UPSIDE DOWN!

:)

[New Earth]

5. i don't mean in general

i mean about this story in particular. it just seems too easy, too within reach - too convenient, and no one else is covering but this guy. i think when and if we hear other reporters covering it, i might be more inclined to turn my frown upside down :P

[merh]

37. Skeptism is fine, but not accepting the basic reality that the MSM

refuses to report any stories that are negative to the weed and his administration is just silly. Have you watched "outfoxed" yet? If not, you need to get it and watch it.

[googly]

108. The MSM would give their right arm to break this story...but

may be they don't believe it has legs.

[merh]

138. You have got to be out of your mind

the MSM doesn't cover any story that is negative to the bushco admin. No WMD's - No AQ connection to 9/11 - UBL no ties to SH - no reason for war - 100,000 dead iraqis - no coverage of dead coming home - no coverage of soldiers that blame * for the war and their injuries and screwed up lives.

Loyalty oaths required at * campaign rallies, no speech zones, arrests of those that opposed * at his campaign rallies, plastic turkey at photo op last thankgiving in Iraq, tanks called out to help with crowd control in streets of LA during peace march.

You are either uninformed or delusional or from the other side.

[googly]

145. I was going by how much attention Florida-2000 received in MSM

because both contenders were fighting. Right now there is no one fighting (apparently) so MSM is paying no attention. You can bet your
bippee if Kerry jumped in the fight OPENLY, the MSM would be covering
it as headline news 24/7.

[KnowerOfLogic]

147. well, that was before the Bush cartel gained total control of MSM.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

22. I am skeptical as well but this update gives us this to investigate.

For example it sates that a 26 million dollar cheque was drawn from a Canadian bank from a Toronto branch.
If cashed in an American bank there must be records of that kind of transactioncrosing the boarder.

The max is 10 000 dollars before a record must be made.

On Monday I can call the Laurentian Bank here in Toronto and provide them with the cheque number and see what they say.

We have FOIA laws here in Canada too.

we at least should be able to get an explanation from the cheques recipient for the reasons for the cheque.

I am still skeptical but at least now we have more things to check up on.

[ebayfool]

57. The part "unauthorized financial institutions" checks out.

On October 6, 2004, some two weeks before Equity Financial Trust transferred the money to Five Star Investment Ltd., the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions for Canada listed Equity Financial Trust, along with Bankers Financial and Security Trust, Falcon Financial and Trust, and Unity Virtual Trust Group as "unauthorized financial institutions." In fact, the check for $29.6 million, which is marked "Not to exceed fifty million dollars," is drawn on the Laurentian Bank of Canada's Toronto branch. Its serial number is 317675450 3 and the bank number is 23-97/1020. The bank instrument is issued by Integrated Payment Systems, Inc. of Englewood, Colorado, and Bank One, NA, Denver, Colorado.

How in the world do you write & cash checks when it's not a real financial institution? Did someone have to eat the $29.6 million? Gawd, I feel ignorant! Forgive the stupid questions, but I really need it spelled out to me.

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:CAXTo65U52YJ:www.fscn.com/alertsnon.htm++%22Equity+Financial+Trust%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8%20target=nw

http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/SpecialAlert/2004/sa7304.html

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:ePrfkORgw_8J:www.419legal.org/forum/banks.php%3Fid%3D1956++%22Equity+Financial+Trust%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8%20target=nw

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:SIxdX-6OX9YJ:www.osfi-bsif.gc.ca/eng/documents/notices/docs/Warning_Notice_55_e.pdf++%22Equity+Financial+Trust%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8%20target=nw

[eleny]

109. About writing and cashing checks via "not real financial institutions"

See my posting #107. In Googling Integrated Payment Systems, I came up with First Data Services, a subsidiary of Western Union. Looks like Integrated and First Data are one and the same. http://www.firstdata.com/svcs_pay_ips.jsp

The research further revealed that Western Union is the means by which illegal aliens can transfer money to relatives outside the U.S. without identifying themselves as they would using other services. No ID is required. Just an interesting fact.

[Stand and Fight]

106. Good

SomethingsGotaGive,
When you find this out be sure to post your information in a new thread and link back to this one. You will want to write down the URL for this thread to do so later. If you could verify that information, it could make all of the difference in the world. One of the thing Woodward and Bernstein did in uncovering Watergate was to follow the money... Follow the money cowboy. Factual verifiable information is our best friend in exposing the beasts who've attempted a coup and possibly the murder -- in public of all things -- of belovéd democracy.

[shraby]

60. Kick

:kick: :kick:

[pointsoflight]

10. You should be.

But keep an open mind and let's see if anything comes of it.

[Ugnmoose]

16. Where is this heading?

I would love to know where Madsen is heading with this? For example if he has solid documentation (as it appears) is he planning on taking this to MSM, friendly prosecutors, Kerry Campaign. Of course he is in real danger just by giving us this information, I hope he has covered his tracks.

[ailsagirl]

32. The problem is

with an uncooperative (i.e., biased toward Dub) media, it's doubtful the story will go anywhere.

I'm not expecting the media to broadcast the story but I would expect any jouranlist worth his salt would at least look into it.

But from what I've seen so far, I'd be very surprised if that happened. (Olbermann an unknown at this point)

That's not to say we should ignore it. Nor should we assume it's true-- let's just wait and see what happens.

[helderheid]

45. We need international media to break this story

Anyone know if Madsen could get this to our friends across the borders and seas?

[truehawk]

66. Sounds like a good story to have have the Guardian Check out.

[pacalo]

40. That's my line of thinking, too: What does he plan on doing with this?

Or has he sent it to someone already? If he has published this online with his name on it, I trust that he must have some high-level support in place.

[genius]

95. Good journalism. He has a copy of the check

So he was in the NSA under Reagan. No wonder he has such good information.

[geo]

144. kick

kick

[progressoid]

146. Me too. Seems a little too much like a planted story

I hope it works out but even if it does, there is still the problem of Madsen's track record. Since he's out of the mainstream, his accuracy is going to be seriously questioned. He'll be seen as some internet hack with no credentials. He's going to have to have an airtight story for this to be taken seriously.

As the story stands, it's a mystery with plot & motive but a lot of nebulous characters, unproven allegations & very loosly connected dots.

[crispini]

3. Epicenter is Dallas, eh?

someone wanna tell me what dumpster to dive in, I'm there.

[jhgatiss]

4. Is it good that we have some information even if it is unconfirmed?

People in the MSM MUST be looking at this, right? Everyone wants to win a Pulitzer! If it is more misinformation, is it still good that we're keeping voter fraud on the burner, even if it is the back one?

[Liberty Belle]

6. More details, but still more needed

This certainly has more specifics than yesterday's report, including a Dallas tie-in and info on financial institutions allegedly involved. Why doesn't Madsen publish a photocopy of the check, since he seems to have all the details?

What's missing, besides that documentation, is evidence that the check was written for the purpose of rigging votes. If the programmers come forward, that would be fairly strong proof of fraud and would tie them to the financial institutions, but we still need a paper trail linking the pay-off to the Bush campaign.

[jhgatiss]

13. I'd be happy enough with just fraud.

I don't need Bush and friends in jail to be happy. I just need them out of the White House. Even if it can be shown someone hijacked the campaign, I don't need proof of Bush involvement. Just throw Bush and friends out and throw the perps in jail then have a Kerry inauguration. :)

[pacalo]

42. Fraud IS a crime, so is stealing. Yes, they deserve prison time &

that would certainly make this huge fan of justice happy. :)

[illuminaughty]

82. Yes, jail time and then some

I think it's time for a little salad tossin' for W and the gang.

[danostuporstar]

125. well since bushco are terrorists

i think some time in abu ghraib is in order.

[googly]

110. Exactly...without the programmers coming forward, this is going nowhere

[meganmonkey]

7. one step at a time - thanks for the update!

these things take time. and if this is all true, he is treading in very dangerous water. but since madsen hasn't been 'disappeared' yet, he may have a chance!

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. So this IS going to break into the MSM... (chuckle)

And until it does we are just spinning here...

Now forward this to those on your email lists, WE are the media

[ailsagirl]

9. Thanks for the new thread, IAMREALITY

Nothing wrong with being skeptical but that shouldn't be tantamount to dismissing the story.

Obviously, it needs to be looked into-- it could be a fraud-- but until it's looked into, we need to consider the possibilities.

A.

[Dancing_Dave]

11. Sounds like Madsen is fishing for a story...

And he got some tugs on the line, but he hasn't quite hooked it yet!:)

The site of such a large check may have blown his mind!

He needs to get some technical details from those technicians--HOW did they rig it, anyway?

[rosyhue]

30. ah, now there's the big question

how did they (supposently) do the evil deed?

food for thought: perhaps it's unrealistic to think he'd give us all the information in one shot. If this story is true (note "if") it's, well...huge. Maybe he's providing teasers to generate interest within the online community in the hopes widespread cyber discussions inspire the MSM to take notice.

[teryang]

12. The problem with Madsen is that he is a spook...

...at least in his own mind. Therefore, his threshold of evidence is to look for "operational indicators." This is a legitimate standard in intelligence analysis because one never gets the full picture until it is too late. By the time journalistic or legal standards for publication or proof are met a story has usually long grown stale.

For an investigative journalist, snooping around on this basis is fine, and I don't mind hearing about it but this sort of story isn't going to get legs with the huge gaps that remain in its telling.

One wonders of course whether any story has legs in this country unless it is completely irrelevant consumerism or has a pro-fascist spin.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

29. great post !! n/t

[pacalo]

44. The stories that have legs are those about Scott Peterson,

Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson's boob, yadayadayada.

They carry more weight than those unmentioned stories that threaten our democracy. Pathetic, isn't it.

[Patsy Stone]

48. And Holy Grilled Cheese Sandwiches

Sold on Ebay. Praise the Lord.

[googly]

111. Sheeple loves scott P and Janet Boobs stories....eom

[SmokingJacket]

127. We should start calling it the Entertainment Media instead of

mainstream media.

Cuz that's what it is, and they don't even deny it.

[Clark2008]

83. Amen

And there are a list of standards that have to be met.

It just has to be that way, fortunately or unfortunately, because no one wants to get their asses sued off. It's just our letigious society.

A way around this would be, however, if Madsen could file some sort of civil suit and testify in open court regarding his findings. Anything spoken in open court is considered a factual vetting of the evidence and a journalist and his or her news organization cannot be sued for reporting it.

[crispini]

14. The copy of the bank check is intriguing.

But in order to make a solid case, there will still need to be more:

- check was paid to X.
- X paid Y to rig vote
- Y rigged vote in such and such a manner.

He seems to be very interested in the idea of the source of the check, and this part is more closely explored, but IMO has not yet connected check w. vote rigging specifically, other than some vague allegations.

I do wonder why he is breaking this fairly quickly? Wouldn't it be better to get names, etc. Also if the techs are "talking" - who are they talking to?

[geo]

17. still.... 29 million dollar checks

don't pop out of thin air, especially with all the right account details. Also, Mr. Madsen puts himself at risk of a defamation suit if he is making accusation against these particular corporations and people if he is recklessly disregarding the truth.

Like I said from the first time I saw this report pop up, it has a ring of truth that is hopeful.

Healthy skepticism. :)

Warmly,

George

[pacalo]

46. My guess is that if he is confident enough to publish this on the web,

he must have a support system of higher ups in place.

[noclonyofthechimp]

128. I hope he has solid protection. If this is true, these guys won't

think twice about him having an "accident".

[geo]

15. All I needed to see... for now... this has serious legs.

Hi all,

Mr. Madsen writes:

"This reporter has obtained a copy of a bank check for $29,600,000 that was allegedly sent to cover the cost of the Texas-based vote rigging operation. The check is dated October 22, 2004, and was made payable to "Five Star Investment Ltd.," a trust said to have long connections to Saudi-funded operations in Texas and around the world. The payer is identified as "Equity Financial Trust," a Houston-based "brass plate" and post office box entity tied to offshore Cook Islands "folding tent" accounts used to hide away profits amassed by the former Enron as well as Saudi financiers.

This may very well be the smoking gun, and if not, he gives us plenty of data to start looking into without feeling we are running in circles.

We should still approach with a healthy level of skepticism, but we should approach this all the same.

Thanks for posting the update! :)

Warmly,

George

[IAMREALITY]

18. Though It Might Not Be Conclusive

This additional info may still not be pure 'evidence' per se, but is extremely compelling anyway.

When I read the original story yesterday it initially wreaked of misinformation due to the sheer vagueness of it and its resources. As they day went on I started believing a bit more, but then today when he has actually responded to emails, and now updated with additional info, I can't help thinking that this is now a lot more like 50/50 as to its legitimacy, rather then the small percentage I might have given it yesterday. I find this extremely encouraging, because he seems to be handling it in the way he needs to, and seems to be intently working on the story.

I have a feeling this might be a very interesting next couple 'o days.

[jhgatiss]

21. We can only hope that its a very interesting next couple 'o days!

I've been waiting for this to break for weeks!

[marzipanni]

24. This could be a Watergate cooked in a microwave oven...

Buckle-up! ;)

[rdmccur]

87. House of Bush, House of Saud

Has anyone else read this book? The link with the Saudi's dovetails right in with many of the purported facts in that book.

[KnowerOfLogic]

149. Supposedly BushCo got the Saudis to finance the Contras

This is what Consortium News says in an article about Colin Powell:

Indeed, Weinberger was one of the first officials outside the White House to learn that Reagan had put the arm on Saudi Arabia to give the contras $1 million a month in 1984, as Congress was cutting off the CIA's covert assistance to the contras through what was known as the Boland Amendment.

Handling the contra-funding arrangements was Saudi ambassador Prince Bandar, a close friend of both Weinberger and Powell. Bandar and Powell had met in the 1970s and were frequent tennis partners in the 1980s. So it was plausible -- perhaps even likely -- that Bandar would have discussed the contra funding with Powell, Weinberger or both. But exactly when Weinberger learned of the Saudi contributions and what Powell knew remain unclear to this day.

One fact that has emerged is that on June 20, 1984, Weinberger attended a State Department meeting about the contra operation. He scribbled notes citing the need to "plan for other sources for $." But secrecy would be vital, the defense secretary understood. "Keep US fingerprints off," he wrote.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/112604.html

I'm sure this is old news to a lot of people, but it looks like it wouldn't be the first time the BushCo's good friends the Saudis have ponied up for their little schemes.

[Evening Star]

19. Problems printing

Anyone else?

PDF Printer Friendly locks up my IE & it won't copy paste to my word processor

Anyone else?

I'll give it a few and see what happens

Tin foil hat secured

[Evening Star]

23. Got it.....Wayne Madsen

is putting his ass on the line here for sure

This could get very interesting

[papau]

28. I see you did not need my post! congrats!!! - and yes, Madsen is

puyying his ass on the line!

:-)

[papau]

25. have you Downloaded the free Adobe Reader and installed it?

Download Adobe Reader http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

then download the pdf file http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112604Madsen/11-26-04_Madsen.pdf

and read it

A pdf file can not be cut and pasted -

you buy some adobe software that will reformat it on output as rtf - and bring the rtf file into word.

[Evening Star]

33. Yes, I have adobe

Thanks,

I was trying both cut and paste into my wp and utilizing the site's PDF format. Neither would work

My feeling is that the site itself was most likely locked up from traffic at the time.

"This reporter has obtained a copy of a bank check for $29,600,000 that was allegedly sent to cover the cost of the Texas-based vote rigging operation."

"alledgedly"

cautiously optimistic that we can finally hang these bastards

[rosyhue]

20. you are welcome

thank you for creating a new thread

[KaliTracy]

26. not much of an update

One wonders.... how the people allegedly *doing* the vote rigging know all of the background information??? Or how they got the "big boss's" cancelled check? Which states were they involved with? Who gave the directive? Were technicians talked to in a group environment, or was each one privately engaged, and then given a task? Did technicians know of one another? Why post this before he has a chance to talk to more "technicians" and have the story verified from other perspectives? Which machines were they involved with? For 29 million, how many people were involved?

This update leaves a reader with even more questions.... and it does us no good to "wish" it to be true. I'm not saying that it's leading people the wrong way, but to tie so much of this to "Bush money" just makes me feel like it wants to be a spy novel, and not a factual report. Others may disagree. I'm just not convinced.

[IAMREALITY]

34. No one is saying

That his update has now reached the point of PROOF. It is just one more piece of what is sure to be one hell of a puzzle. Those that demand proof, nay, all the proof, right then and there when a story is just being broken, are we'll just say a bit too anxious. Relax a bit, there are a ton of new tidbits of information in there and is a great update. There may not be Proof as you would define it coming in a short enough time frame to set us at ease, but the fact that new pieces are being added every day is extremely encouraging.

Keep this in mind, DEMOCRACY CANNOT BE SAVED IN A SINGLE DAY. It will take time, patience, perserverence, and dedication like you have never been akin to before....

[rosyhue]

39. agree with you IAM

it's just not realistic to think this guy is going to spring all his information on the public in one KABOOM. My feeling (for whatever it's worth) is he wishes to generate internet interest prior to releasing the big guns. Why wouldn't he? The MSM isn't going to touch this. Yet. And he knows it. Plus whose to say his sources are willing to come forward at this early stage of the game. I sure wouldn't lol

[KaliTracy]

80. All I'm saying

is that the particular pieces to this puzzle are either too easily put together (the money chain allegation) -- or there are too many pieces missing to see a clear picture (the technicians and how they became involved in this).

both articles start with the technicians and then suddenly drop to money chain allegations -- but in both articles there is no real resolution for the technician lead.

If he's "sitting" on information because he's still gathering data or is not ready to report the whole story -- then why put out the information about the $29 million dollar check? And the fact that its payee is an entity and not a person doesn't exactly prove much (and is less likely to provoke allegations of libel).

I just had more questions after I read the "update" than I expected to have. I am patient.... believe me, I don't think that this is going to be solved overnight. I tend to think it might take a long time to really get to the bottom (top) of it all, and I'm willing to wait and see how some of these things pan out -- or what Mainstream Media (or any other Media) picks up on (if anything). I would think, at some point, someone would need to say this is a "real" story and push it out into the masses.

[rhite5]

94. Obviously he is hoping more whistleblowers will be brave and come forward

if this story gets wide circulation on the net. He is using this method to get more facts. It is that simple.

[idealista]

96. underpaid?

Maybe he's letting all the techies know if they only got chump change, that as much as $50M was budgetted for the op. And here's the check to prove it.

[rosyhue]

118. interesting theory

[rosyhue]

116. exactly

someone will have to say it's "real" and push it to the masses.
I think that's why he's starting off online. I could certainly be wrong, though.

[TexasChick]

150. Exactly, IAMREALITY, I always think of Watergate. Thanks for your

the new thread! I don't know if you'll have the answer or not, but I'm just wondering about these technicians. Why would the Chimp campaign people not pay these people what they said they would, especially when it comes to something really risky as rigging an election? Dunno, but seems rather stupid, doesn't it?

[deansyawp]

47. I have to agree

He seems much more interested in the money trail (which seems almost besides the point -- I mean, it's not like the Republican Party is short on money and needs to beg around for it) than in the actual vote rigging. Until he is able to provide more details on those who did the rigging and how they did it, this isn't going anywhere. Especially if they aren't willing to go on record and give sworn testimony. So as tantalyzing as all this is, well ...

[NVMojo]

63. What he is doing is typical MO for an investigative journalist who

has a bite but needs to flush out more. He has put himself on the line here. Just sit back and watch.

Buying off the election just fits with the Smirking Chimp in his world of favored connections. That this could be true does not surprise me. I've also done investigative stories before and I see nothing weird about this story or the way he is only giving up bits and pieces. This man is not an amateur writer.

added: And we don't have enough journalists left who actually look beyond the press releases they are fed from bureaucrats and corporations anymore. Most don't even know how to make connections anymore. That is something that can't really be taught anyways. We are sorely suffering from a lack of MUCKRAKERS in this country.

[rdmccur]

89. Come on!

The original story just came out yesterday. Geez.

[Ugnmoose]

27. I'm still puzzled by one thing

If leakers are disgruntled, why wouldn't they take this directly to the Kerry Campaign, instead of leaking to a non mainstream journalist? It would seem to me if they wanted retribution they would easily find a willing ear with them.

[electricblue2000]

38. vote riggers

I have been with DU since just after the 2000 elections but haven't posted in a very long time.

Regarding the why the leaker's haven't gone to the Kerry Campaign with the grievances. The Kerry group may have been contacted and trying to work under the radar to gather proof. At least that is my hope.

[pacalo]

49. Hi, electric blue! Welcome to DU (& I agree with your post)! :)

[merh]

50. My hope is your hope, that Kerry's bunch is on this.

Remember, he was the senator that pushed the investigation into another group that laundered monies and paid for their criminal deeds using those silly offshore banks.

[noclonyofthechimp]

129. Has anyone sent it to Kerry?

[Ugnmoose]

52. We better hope so

This would be the best shot they have to overturn the election and bring the House Of Neocons down. It might also explain why it appears the Dems have thrown in the towel. Kerry is a former prosecutor and known in the Senate to be a tenacious investigator. If he had wind of this I am pretty confident he would want to pursue it. If the Dems want to challenge the election they are going to have to move quickly. If this thing has legs, you can expect to see it explode within the next week or so.

[NVMojo]

65. We don't know that they didn't go to the Kerry campaign first and this

was the suggested way to leak it out. It is better to leak it this way for anything coming out of Kerry is going to painted as "desperate" or "sour grapes" by Rove. Believe me, this is better. Politicians do this all the time. Been there, done that.

[RevCheesehead]

90. Perhaps the techies/leakers are afraid of indictments.

If you can go to a credible journalist, you stand a chance of remaining anonymous. And maybe Madsen has enough circumstantial evidence that would allow these guys to remain in the shadows.

Believe me, I fear for the safety of ALL - Madsen, the disgruntled techies, even the payees. We know enough about the BFEE that they will do ANYTHING to stay in the game.

[TexasChick]

151. RevCheesehead, your post sounds very plausible!! n/t

[Garbo 2004]

31. There's more meat on the bones for people to look into at least,

aside from reports of precinct lockdowns while the count was on. It should be a Googlefest. ;)

For just one example, the Pierre Falcone who was mentioned in the article: "It is noteworthy that a number of companies operated by past Bush campaign contributor Pierre Falcone, under criminal investigation in France for weapons smuggling in Angola, are called "Falcon."" It may or may not be "noteworthy" or even significant but it might be interesting to take a look at Mr. Falcone nonetheless just for kicks.

There appears to be quite some info available on the fellow, a lot in French however, largely due perhaps to his stay as a guest of the French prison system. For one example, from "In These Times" a December 2001 article on Falcone:

Te Arms Dealer Next Door
International billionaire, French prisoner, Angolan weapons broker, Arizona Republican. Who is Pierre Falcone?
by Ken Silverstein

On December 1, billionaire businessman Pierre Falcone walked out of the Fleury-Merogis prison near Paris after a judge opted not to prolong his provisional detention. Despite having spent a full year behind bars, it’s doubtful that Falcone felt a great sense of relief that day.

The key player in a huge scandal that has tarnished some of France’s best-known politicians, Falcone is still expected to stand trial later this year for his role in the sale of half a billion dollars worth of Eastern European weapons to Angola. He obtained his release only after paying a $15 million bail, turning over his passport to the court, and accepting severe restrictions on his movements and activities.

Falcone was initially charged with illegal arms dealing because he allegedly brokered the Angola sales without authorization from the French government agency that reviews weapons exports, but prosecutors later dropped that count due to a legal technicality. He remains accused of bribing numerous prominent parties to further his arms business—most notably Jean-Christophe Mitterand, son of ex-President Francois Mitterand—and of failing to pay tens of millions of dollars in taxes on profits from the Angola deals, legal or not.

Though largely unreported, the man at the center of “Angolagate,” as the French press has dubbed the scandal, has extensive American ties. Falcone’s primary residence is a mammoth estate in Paradise Valley, Arizona, where he and his wife, Sonia, a former Miss Bolivia International, are active in political and community affairs. Falcone’s American activities range from advising a major U.S. oil company to teaming with a Virginia-based arms dealer who has worked for both the CIA and Saddam Hussein. What’s more, a floundering health and beauty company run by Sonia Falcone made a controversial $100,000 donation to the Republican Party during the 2000 presidential campaign. http://www.inthesetimes.com/issue/26/04/feature4.shtml

And Madsen's covered the fellow before: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=2576

Report Alleges US Role in Angola Arms-for-Oil Scandal
by Wayne Madsen, Special to CorpWatch
May 17th, 2002

As the US Congress continues its investigation of the Enron affair, human rights advocates are calling for a probe of the Bush administration's possible role in another energy and influence-peddling scandal. According to a recent report by the British-based non-governmental organization Global Witness, Bush and US oil interests have ties to some of the key figures in the arms-for-oil scandal which has devastated Angola.

Known as "Angolagate" in France, the scandal involves arms-for-oil deals between French businessman Pierre Falcone, the head of a firm called Brenco International; his colleague Jean-Christophe Mitterand, the son of the former French president; and a Russian-born Israeli named Arkadi Gaydamak.

According to "All the Presidents' Men," a March 25 report on Angolagate by Global Witness, Gaydamak funneled billions of dollars in arms and oil-backed loans to Angola's government in return for lucrative oil contracts with Western oil companies. Falcone and Gaydamak, relying on the special access that Mitterand had to the Angolan government, managed to transfer some $463 million in arms to Angola.

The net effect of the Angolan arms buildup was the scrapping of the 1994 Lusaka Peace Agreement between Angolan President Jose Eduardo dos Santos and long-time UNITA rebel leader Jonas Savimbi, a one-time favorite of the Central Intelligence Agency and a person who President Reagan once hailed as the "George Washington of Angola."
(continued at link above.)

[Liberty Belle]

35. Falcone connection is too much of a stretch

Falcon Financial and Trust is merely one of a half dozen financial entities mentioned on the fraud warning notice issued by the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada. There is no evidence linking Falcone or any of the others to Equity Financial Trust, the entity that purportedly wrote the check.

It is interesting, however, to note that the Canadian warning states that Equity Financial Trust and the others listed are not authorized, federally regulated financial institutions and that they are "entities posing as financial institutions" believed to be used as part of various advance fee or "Nigerian letter" scams.

http://www.osfi-bsif.gc.ca/eng/documents/notices/docs/warning_Notice_55_e.pdf

The warning list repeated on the U.S. FDIC site and and also republished on the Financial Services Compliance Network.

[Angry Girl]

36. Dare we hope?

I love the headlines but am concerned of Online Journal's credibility in the mainstream: they are far to the left and they don't get taken seriously.

Hell, look what they did to Dan Rather.

The more time goes by, the more I feel they're going to get away with the fraud. They did last time....

please, please, please
*fingers crossed*

[shraby]

41. Equity Financial Trust

Special Alerts
The Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions (OSFI) of Canada has published the attached "Warning Notice" (Issue No. 55), which lists the names of six entities recently brought to OSFI's attention. These entities are Bankers Financial and Security Trust, Toronto, Ontario; Equity Financial Trust, Toronto, Ontario; Falcon Financial and Trust, Toronto, Ontario; National Deposit, Toronto, Ontario; Standard Financial Trust Bank, Toronto, Ontario; and Unity Virtual Trust Group, Toronto, Ontario.

These entities, or persons representing them, are reportedly operating in Canada. They may be violating provisions of the Bank Act (Canada) or other Canadian financial institution regulations. They may also be conducting unauthorized banking transactions in the United States. Any proposed transactions involving these entities should be viewed with extreme caution.

(more)
<http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/SpecialAlert/2004/sa7304.html>

[NVMojo]

72. oh, so Bush may have another reason to head up to Canada right now?

To shut the players up?

[NVMojo]

70. such complaints from liberals who complain that we are surrounded by

MSM republican influenced hacks. Jeezus.

Maybe you all just aren't used to real investigative reporting. It used to happen in America more than it does today.

It is an interesting process to throw yourself out there with information like this. You can't imagine what it is like when others "in the know" start flapping their lips. It is human nature for most people to want to be the one with the most info, a powerful heady feeling for the leaker and the reporter has to be very careful to filter out what is real and what isn't. That's why the copy of the check is important here. Hearsay is good but if the one doing the saying remains anonymous the reporter's ass is out on a limb. Something in writing to back up some of what is being said is better when your ass is out on a limb with a confidential scoop.

Like I said before, we need to bring back "MUCKRAKERS" in journalism!!

[SueZhope]

43. I found this on the web tonight ...about madson?

What i found was this
http://blog.spartac.us/
It was very odd that it links to DU....Im new here so perhaps everyone knows about this site and the blogs?

This is what it said:

25 November 2004

Madsen Redux

I thought I felt my ears burning. The logs confirm that I'm being talked about at Democratic Underground. It seems our old pal Wayne Madsen has published an article at Online Journal alleging:

According to informed sources in Washington and Houston, the Bush campaign spent some $29 million to pay polling place operatives around the country to rig the election for Bush. The operatives were posing as Homeland Security and FBI agents but were actually technicians familiar with Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S, Triad, Unilect, and Danaher Controls voting machines. These technicians reportedly hacked the systems to skew the results in favor of Bush.

Informed sources say the damnedest things. I briefly came up in the DU discussion because of what I had to say about Madsen here, here, and here when last year he accused Bush of inconveniencing troops by having Thanksgiving dinner in Iraq at 6 am. The sole source of Maden's diatribe was a single typo in the Washington Post. (It's a good thing he didn't mention the plastic turkey.)

Some of the esteemed DUers are trying to vet Madsen as a credible reporter and so came across my ealier posts. Well watch out people!

They are of several minds on the matter:

Madsen has been one of my favorite research/investigative reporters for years, and while his timing sometimes sucks, because it's not in his hands, his basic research is far more solid than 99.9% of anything else you'll hear from "staff" reporters ANYWHERE!!


Doesn't say much about the 99.9%. Though you've got to remember that CBS is in that 99.9%, so maybe he's on to something.

Wayne Madsen has been researching and writing articles long before you even had a CLUE what kinds of things our "elected" officials were up to.

Wayne Madsen is PASSIONATE about what he does. And to some extent, some journalists' passion can come through pretty strong, and will tend to cast dispersions on the underlying research.

Among other things.

Unfortunately I think Madsen is king of true stories that won't see the "light of day" -- won't go mainstream -- for at least 20 years.

On the other hand some are more skeptical:

Seriously, folks, the author hooks you with a smoking gun and then strays into murky territory, tying all of the shadowy elements one to another before he trails off into thin air. Why didn't he link together the Illuminati, the Bilderberg Group and the JASON Society? The end of his essay leaves the reader hanging and fails to draw a conclusion. Shoddy writing, at best. A reporter? Ha! The author sets you up for a wild goose chase and doesn't give you any leads you can verify or investigate.

After the article, it lists all of these impressive credentials to make the author seem important.

Smoking gun or red herring? The article has too many elements of a red herring.


But they want it to be true so badly. Ay, there's the rub.

Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

[papau]

55. blog.spartac.us is the Bush lover Brian O'Connell web site

Boston area based Brian O'Connell has written right wing protect Bush articles for Men’s News Daily

[e-mail].

[SueZhope]

58. Thanks.....I thought something was odd

I went back and read some more and realized were his loyalties are.
it seemed odd to me that he was quoting from DU...
Is that what people mean by Freepers? Does he also post here
under a mystery name? How would any one know. I guess thats why theres so much talk about freepers being here.

[kk897]

136. Sue--about "freepers"

I just recently found out myself that "freepers" refers to people who post on the Free Republic boards. I guess they're rabidly conservative, willing to flame, and often come to DU to "troll"-- that is, start discussions to set everyone in a tizzy.

Longtime DUers, did I get that right?

[SueZhope]

152. Thanks.....for explaining about freepers

How can people actually know who is a freeper and who just has a different view , perhaps when you are here for a while you get a better sense of who might be one.....My question is why would they be spending so much time looking for trouble at DU? There man is still in the WH. Why are they so worried about us? Do Du people go over there and spend alot
of time posting ?

[jamboi]

112. I wouldn't worry about Brian O'Connell (who posted that). Whatever dude

is the attitude I'd take. He seems to have a long running anti-Madsen thing going. Whatever dude. Just blow him off.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

51. Question???

From Madsen's article:

November 26, 2004—Additional information on the buying of vote riggers with Saudi and former Enron funds has been obtained. The epicenter for the vote rigging operation is Dallas, Texas, and the operation may involve retired FBI agents who used a well-established "good ole boy" network to arrange for access to polling precincts by electronic voting machine technicians who took advantage of various November 2 security "lockdowns" to illegally alter the tabulation of votes in favor of Bush. Some of the retired agents may have used courtesy credentials issued upon retirement to fool unsuspecting polling place workers.

My question is, besides Warren County, Ohio, and a Democratic Lockdown in Santa Fe, were there any lockdowns in other places in the country that centrally tabulated votes. I am not talking about polling places (ie 73 Palm Beach Schools), but where counties actually tabulated the votes (ie Warren County), that were then sent to the state for certification. Does anyone know if there any others?

[kitp]

53. sorry

here's my reasons for being skeptical.

As mentioned in another reply, if Madsen is talking to the low-level hackers, how did he get access to the 29.6 million dollar check?

The next is, if you are rigging an election happening on Nov. 2, why would you be paying your guys on Oct 22? 10 days before the deed?

It might make sense that the low-level hackers would be paid near the time of their deed, but this sort of transfer would probably have happened much earlier. AFter all, you needed to do research, crunch numbers, hire the hackers, and so on.
All of this would have to be in place, you wouldn't wait until 10 days before the election to start.

My last reason is very simple: why no proof? why no posting of the check? I can see no reason whatsoever to not photocopy the check and post it. YOu've already given enough information - if true - to tip off the bad guys that you are on to them or - if false - to give them enough to sue you out of existence, so why not post the check?

Again and again we hear very tantalizing theories along with claims of proof and documentation, but never any proof and documentation.
If you don't have the proof, what are you doing tipping your hand by posting details, and if you do have proof, why are you withholding it?

Sorry, just doesn't fly...yet.

[IAMREALITY]

54. Patience Patience Patience Patience

Now Now Now Now Now Now Now....

....Just ain't gonna work that way....

And for the record, who's to say his sources are low level hackers?

[GDoyle]

67. My impression...

My impression of the two stories is Madsen isn't talking to the techs, he is talking to whomever the techs are talking to. So, for example, say for the sake of argument the techs went to the FBI with the scheme....my impression is Madsen has a source within the FBI who is feeding him info on what the techs are saying. In addition, he may be fed additional info on the investigation, such as the check, that was developed by the FBI in checking out the story and not from the techs directly. That is a possible explanation, but I remain skeptical because Madsen has yet to say who the techs are singing to.

GDoyle

[merh]

139. It is possible that the leakers went to an attorney, knowing their

arses are in a very bad crack. The attorneys are providing Madsen the info in an effort to keep the FBI honest and to get the best deal for their clients (total immunity) and to keep them alive.

[NVMojo]

73. having done investigative reporting in the past, it is not unusual

to demand some documented evidence when someone leaks a story to you as the reporter. Come on, if you were a doctor, would you appreciate everyone second guessing your trade skills?

This guy is putting his ass on the line here, he must feel it is worth the risk. Just like Novack did when he leaked the Palme story and that was true, wasn't it?

[GDoyle]

79. Novak

Novak said where he got the information. That is standard reporting. Novak said a "Senior Administration Official" talked to him...Madsen doesn't say. He says the techs are talking, but not who is feeding the story to him. He doesn't have to name who it is, he could say a US Law Enforcement source, or intelligence source. Whatever. Something.

Right now, for all we know, he read it on the back of a fortune cookie. He needs to clarify.

GDoyle

[NVMojo]

86. at least he's not just some amatuer investigator like some of us are

on this board.

[Carolab]

56. Where is Bush going in Canada?

"On October 6, 2004, some two weeks before Equity Financial Trust transferred the money to Five Star Investment Ltd., the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions for Canada listed Equity Financial Trust, along with Bankers Financial and Security Trust, Falcon Financial and Trust, and Unity Virtual Trust Group as "unauthorized financial institutions." In fact, the check for $29.6 million, which is marked "Not to exceed fifty million dollars," is drawn on the Laurentian Bank of Canada's Toronto branch."

What is the reported reason for Bush's visit there?

[NVMojo]

74. I am wondering the same thing Carolab!

This could be a posturing warning to those involved. As in "you can run but you can't hide" by Bush. Only he's not smart enough to think of that, that would be a Rove suggestion for Chimpy. Once again, this is typical to posture like this to send a subtle message the public won't understand.

[RubyCat]

105. Thanking "Hidden Heroes"

He could be making his presense felt in order to warn them to keep their mouths shut. On the other hand, he could be thanking his vote riggers for the fine job they did.

On Veteran's Day, Nov 11, a little over a week since Bush's election victory, Bush laid a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and thanked the "hidden heroes".

The Bush family has a habit of thanking "hidden heroes". I specifically remember Bush Sr. doing that too, and it always struck me as odd, as if he's communicating publicly with secret agents who had just done him a favor. I don't ever remember Clinton referring to "hidden heroes".

I also think that election night video given to the media of Bush with his entire family, including Barbara and George Sr., was an attempt at communicating publicly to his secret operatives. To everyone else, the purpose of that video is just a quickly forgotten mystery, like a secret handshake when you're not in on the secret.

Do a search on Yahoo for Bush+hidden+heroes. You'll get a lot of results:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=bush+hidden+heroes&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-news-t&fl=0&x=wrt

Do the same search, but with Clinton, (Clinton+hidden+heroes), and you won't get any. Granted, that may be because the search engines don't search news stories that old.

Bush is just tipping his hat to the guys who stole the election for him.

[RubyCat]

98. Bush's trip to Canada

He's making a two part trip, first to Ottawa and then Halifax, Nova Scotia:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/4f2d387a-401f-11d9-bd0e-00000e2511c8.html

[SueZhope]

59. has any posted this ? Democarcy now 2003 with Wayne Madsen & Greg Palast

Thursday, August 7th, 2003
Florida Creates "the Matrix", a Big Brother-Like Surveillance System with Help From Choicepoint-Related Firm

Remember the Florida election of 2000 when a private database company scrubbed thousands of eligible voters from the rolls? Well now one of the co-founders of Database Technologies is back in the headlines -- he's working with law enforcement agents in Florida to create what may soon expand into a national surveillance system. We talk with privacy expert Wayne Madsen, investigative reporter Greg Palast and a top intelligence official from the state of Florida.

http://freewebhosting.hostdepartment.com/t/tomyum/local_html/theMatrix.html

[YellowDoginthehouse]

75. Well if Amy Goodman used him on DemocracyNow!...

...that's good enough for me. He's reliable.

[GDoyle]

61. One thing that bothers me....

One thing that bothers me about the two Madsen articles is he does not even touch what is being done with the information. In other words, does he claim the FBI is now looking into it? Some other agency? Or is he claiming its just info he is privy to, but nothing is being done about it. If he claimed the FBI was investigating, which he hasn't, I'd think his credibility would be a bit more on the line and thus the report more trustworthy as presumably he'd be predicting some type of public acknowledgement of his claims at some later date.

The way he has it worded now, he can simply claim down the road that his info was true but "officials" refused to investigate, thus insulating himself. That mere setup alone, convenient for him, leaves me remaining skeptical. But I will say the additional details in his second article are at least slightly more suggestive some type of official investigation is going on, I'd just feel a hell of a lot less negative about his story if he'd say who these techs who are singing are supposedly singing to.

GDoyle

[Carolab]

68. He said in an e-mail response

that he had given it to some individuals who could "make hell" with it. What do you want him to do? Talk publicly about everything he's doing and compromise whatever investigation might be going on?

[GDoyle]

71. No

I just want him to say whether any law enforcement is looking into it at the moment or not.

GDoyle

[NVMojo]

76. if you understand investigative reporting, then you don't doubt the man's

methods. Please, let this play out. If he screws up, his ass is on the line. I hope he is safe.

[Chasing Dreams]

85. Agreed, and Madsen may have just saved his life by

getting the information out today. He is very specific -- companies, Saudis, banks, relationships past and present, the check number and where it was cashed,..., what next? They can't touch him now.

By Monday afternoon or sooner we'll know whether it's real.

[NVMojo]

101. Thanks, Chasing Dreams, I appreciate a voice of reason in a sea of

doubts.

Whenever I have uncovered something that has been hidden from the public or was "leaked" to me by someone who didn't have the ability to get the info out, I always knew the best thing to do was voice it in public and often and then write about it. I have a friend who is doing an investigative book on some unsolved deaths from the 60s and she has been followed, harassed, etc. but she hasn't been too worried as she has years of investigative background in news and knew the more public she made her findings, the safer she was. She put her book "concept" on the web, even put key info about the murders she uncovered on the site and she is just know shopping the book to publishers. Smart move.

I still think we have alot of "freepers" on here and I don't care if that is insulting for some. Visit www.freerepublic.com and do a search on Madsen's names in the posts. Freepers hate this guy. He brings to much out in the open, even if it is just to raise the question about something. Smart move on his part.

[Clark2008]

91. I understand investigative reporting methods

and GDoyle is correct.

The FBI isn't a vaccum. They have to at least admit, by law, that they are investigating a case. They, however, do not have to tell you any details regarding an ongoing investigation.

Madsen needs only to report that the case is under investigation by whatever law enforcement agency.

Hell, call 'em up yourself and ask. File a FOIA and ask. By law, they have to tell you a case number, which means it's a file.

I'm no amateur at this game, which is why I'm still skeptical. I'm wondering where the meat is. So far I see lots of good and buttery veggies, but the steak is still either cooking or hasn't even been killed, yet.

[merh]

141. When was the last time you filed an FOIA with the feds?

Under ashwipe, they don't reply to them. Patriot Act and the way ashwipe runs the justice department have resulted in the ineffectiveness of the FoIAs, unless of course the court orders compliance.

[noclonyofthechimp]

130. I agree. I am scared for him.

[brindis_desala]

120. glad someone here is thinking logically

If this guy is a patriot he would not be sharing this with DU for the world's prying eyes. Our usefulness only extends as far as we can expose the anomalies (do the numbers make sense), means (could it have been done?) and probability (what was the likeliest method given the machines' vulnerabilities?), not the "who dun it" cloak and dagger intrigue that has this thread all agog. Bev Harris has it right- you can't afford to show your hand ergo if this at one time was useful information it aint anymore...

[IAMREALITY]

122. What A Crock

"Bev Harris has it right- you can't afford to show your hand ergo if this at one time was useful information it aint anymore..."

With all due respect to Bev, the whole volusia county was missing all sorts of details when she broke it. In fact, she still hasn't revealed facts such as how many votes were changed or different, and a lot of other details that one would want after reading her story, so that above assessment would seem a bit hypocritical.

Furthermore, to already call Madsen out as not being a patriot makes me sick. This guy is totally putting his neck out on the line for us, for you. People that keep posting posts like this above obviously have no idea how investigations like this work. He's been extremely specific on certain things and his details definitely lend credibility to the story. I'm sure in due time we will all know more and be able to decide a little more fairly the legitimacy of this whole thing.

[brindis_desala]

123. enjoy your fantasy

btw your take on Bev confirmed my argument.

[IAMREALITY]

124. Confirmed Nothing

And there is no fantasy. We here at DU take this extremely seriously, and anyone wanting to call us out like that probably is on the wrong board. We have worked tirelessly and since WE have to be the media, take all stories like this very seriously and do our best to confirm/deny their details. This story has a lot to go on, and for anybody who actually CARES about what happened on election day would be interested and willing to view it with an open mind and help investigate, rather then dismiss it altogether as FANTASY. We at DU are extremely dedicated to getting to the bottom of yet another stolen election, and as the words of the candidate you probably voted for "you are either with us, or you are against us"

[brindis_desala]

126. Methinks thou protests too much

Real Democrats are not so thin-skinned. I trust the people here who "get it" understand your game. Knock yourself out on this- Just don't discredit the good work being done by promoting dubious theories to the MSM as fact. It does no one any good.

[IAMREALITY]

131. Ha!

Last thing I am is "thin skinned". The people here that "Get It" understand what a "real democrat" is. They also can sniff out right wing mentalitites with a single whiff. Nobody is promoting dubious theories to the MSM as fact. We are merely investigating with an open mind as we should. I see you have only been here a week, so you really don't know how things work yet, but I'm sure you'll figure it out soon. Some tips to start with are

1. Don't claim that people trying to break stories to assist with Fraud allegations are "unpatriotic"

2. Don't dismiss stories that obviously have caught DU's attention as "Fantasy"

3. Don't post replies that sound an awful lot like they would've come from a guest on the Sean Hannity show

4. Avoid phrases like "METHINKS THOU PROTESTS TOO MUCH" as it sounds extremely obnoxious, arrogant, self-righteous, and makes a lot of us sick to our stomachs to read

There are many others, but in another week or two you will probably figure more of it out. For now hopefully what is above will assist you a bit, and you will calm down your rhetoric.

Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[brindis_desala]

132. over 400 post in 3 weeks, my, my, you ARE a pro!

but thanks for that warm and modest welcome

[IAMREALITY]

133. Damn Right!

:)

[idealista]

62. I so want this to be real, but what if..?

I just hope that Madsen knows his sources and is right to trust them. What if the bad guys set him up in some way - a check that is actually legitimate (not used for fraud), faux informants, all in order to discredit a journalist who is a thorn in their side, and as a sort of "reverse-proof" that the election was clean. What if there was fraud, but the details were something different?

On the other hand if the silence of the Democrats has some higher purpose, it could be that to catch this reprehensible cast of characters in the act and thoroughly discredit them would be advantageous beyond just keeping Bush out of the White House. If Bush lost the election, the whole scary bunch just goes on to plan their next "freedom heist".

[brindis_desala]

64. We may have more to worry about

I recall Neil Bush making a killing on Kopin Corp. which just so happens to be a leader in wireless internet technology. Diebold has a slot in its latest machines for the card and Kopin recently won an army contract. Bev's report about remote attempts at accessing machines in Florida got me thinking.
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994584
http://www.g4techtv.com/screensavers/features/46341/Evo...
http://www.access-us-inc.com/news_archives/news_2000/10...
Could be mere coincidence but worth remembering.

brindis

[Carolab]

69. The VoteHere system is the one that's being touted

I don't want ANY digitized voting. NONE.

WE must fight for:

Paper and pen. Hand counting. AND receipts. PERIOD!!!!!

Not to mention: NO VOTER SUPPRESSION.

[NVMojo]

77. Anybody remember Echelon? That's Madsen's thang

http://www.maurizioturco.it/echelon/banca_dati/Ekstra_Bladet/ekstra_bladet_7.htm

This guy knows how to connect dots.

And this article appears on Totse.com which some may not like but it first appeared on Tom Paine's site.

Having worked around law enforcement and technology in the past, I can tell you that the info in this article is correct on the different privacy invasion programs available to law enforcement to "spy" on the public. Madsen would have the understanding of how e-machines could be hacked if he understands law enforcements ability to use program "viruses" such as "Magic Lantern" and "Cyber Knight" to obtain a "key" to unlock encrypted emails.

I was at a meeting locally where the ACLU asked our city council to sign a protest against the Patriot Act last year. I shared a "privacy invasion" incident that happened to someone I know. I called upon to the local police chief in the meeting to confirm that he already has the ability to "spy" on a "suspect" today and yesterday (pre Patriot Act) and he publicly agreed this was the case just like the info Madsen shares here. Madsen is not just an investigative reporter. He was an investigator in a high tech security environment and this makes him pre-disposed to be suspicious and "keyed in" with hacking of computers and electronic voting machines.

oops forgot to give you the link to the second story:

http://www.totse.com/en/politics/economic_documents/163780.html

[truehawk]

81. Then he would also know about PROMIS

And CARNIVORE

[marzipanni]

104. Cripes, google is your best friend...

Waihopai, INFOSEC, Information Security, Information Warfare, IW, IS, Priavacy, Information Terrorism, Terrorism Defensive Information, Defense Information Warfare, Offensive Information, Offensive Information Warfare, National Information Infrastructure, InfoSec, Reno, Compsec, Computer Terrorism, Firewalls, Secure Internet Connections, ISS, Passwords, DefCon V, Hackers, Encryption, Espionage, USDOJ, NSA, CIA, S/Key, SSL, FBI, Secert Service, USSS, Defcon, Military, White House, Undercover, NCCS, Mayfly, PGP, PEM, RSA, Perl-RSA, MSNBC, bet, AOL, AOL TOS, CIS, CBOT, AIMSX, STARLAN, 3B2, BITNET, COSMOS, DATTA, E911, FCIC, HTCIA, IACIS, UT/RUS, JANET, JICC, ReMOB, LEETAC, UTU, VNET,BRLO, BZ, CANSLO, CBNRC, CIDA, JAVA, Active X, Compsec 97, LLC, DERA, Mavricks, Meta-hackers, ^?, Steve Case, Tools, Telex, Military Intelligence, Scully, Flame, Infowar, Bubba, Freeh, Archives, Sundevil, jack, Investigation, ISACA, NCSA, spook words, Verisign, Secure, ASIO, Lebed, ICE, NRO, Lexis-Nexis, NSCT, SCIF, FLiR, Lacrosse, Flashbangs, HRT, DIA, USCOI, CID, BOP, FINCEN, FLETC, NIJ, ACC, AFSPC, BMDO, NAVWAN, NRL, RL, NAVWCWPNS, NSWC, USAFA, AHPCRC, ARPA, LABLINK, USACIL, USCG, NRC, ~, CDC, DOE, FMS, HPCC, NTIS,SEL, USCODE, CISE, SIRC, CIM, ISN, DJC, SGC, UNCPCJ, CFC, DREO, CDA, DRA, SHAPE, SACLANT, BECCA, DCJFTF, HALO, HAHO, FKS, 868, GCHQ, DITSA, SORT, AMEMB, NSG, HIC, EDI, SAS, SBS, UDT, GOE, DOE, GEO, Masuda, Forte, AT, GIGN, Exon Shell, CQB, CONUS, CTU, RCMP, GRU, SASR, GSG-9, 22nd SAS, GEOS, EADA, BBE, STEP, Echelon, Dictionary, MD2, MD4, MDA, MYK, 747,777, 767, MI5, 737, MI6, 757, Kh-11, Shayet-13, SADMS, Spetznaz, Recce, 707, CIO, NOCS, Halcon, Duress, RAID, Psyops, grom, D-11, SERT, VIP, ARC, S.E.T. Team, MP5k, DREC, DEVGRP, DF, DSD, FDM, GRU, LRTS, SIGDEV, NACSI, PSAC, PTT, RFI, SIGDASYS, TDM. SUKLO, SUSLO, TELINT, TEXTA. ELF, LF, MF, VHF, UHF, SHF, SASP, WANK, Colonel, domestic disruption, smuggle, 15kg, nitrate, Pretoria, M-14, enigma, Bletchley Park, Clandestine, nkvd, argus, afsatcom, CQB, NVD, Counter Terrorism Security, Rapid Reaction, Corporate Security, Police, sniper, PPS, ASIS, ASLET, TSCM, Security Consulting, High Security, Security Evaluation, ElectronicSurveillance, MI-17, Counterterrorism, spies, eavesdropping, debugging, interception, COCOT, rhost, rhosts, SETA, Amherst, Broadside, Capricorn, Gamma, Gorizont, Guppy, Ionosphere, Mole, Keyhole, Kilderkin, Artichoke, Badger, Cornflower, Daisy, Egret, Iris, Hollyhock, Jasmine, Juile, Vinnell, B.D.M.,Sphinx, Stephanie, Reflection, Spoke, Talent, Trump, FX, FXR, IMF, POCSAG, Covert Video,Intiso, r00t, lock picking, Beyond Hope, csystems, passwd, 2600 Magazine, Competitor, EO, Chan, Alouette, executive, Event Security, Mace,Cap-Stun, stakeout, ninja, ASIS, ISA, EOD, Oscor, Merlin, NTT, SL-1, Rolm, TIE, Tie-fighter, PBX, SLI, NTT, MSCJ, MIT, 69, RIT, Time, MSEE, Cable & Wireless, CSE, Embassy, ETA, Porno, Fax, finks, Fax encryption, white noise, pink noise, CRA, M.P.R.I., top secret, Mossberg, 50BMG, Macintosh Security, Macintosh Internet Security, Macintosh Firewalls, Unix Security, VIP Protection, SIG, sweep, Medco, TRD, TDR, sweeping, TELINT,Audiotel, Harvard, 1080H, SWS, Asset, Satellite imagery, force, Cypherpunks, Coderpunks, TRW, remailers, replay, redheads, RX-7, explicit, FLAME, Pornstars, AVN, Playboy, Anonymous, Sex, chaining, codes, Nuclear, 20, subversives, SLIP, toad, fish, data havens, unix, c, a, b, d, the, Elvis, quiche, DES, 1*, NATIA, NATOA, sneakers, counterintelligence, industrial espionage, PI, TSCI, industrial intelligence, H.N.P., Juiliett Class Submarine, Locks, loch, Ingram Mac-10, sigvoice, ssa, E.O.D., SEMTEX, penrep, racal, OTP, OSS, Blowpipe, CCS, GSA, Kilo Class, squib, primacord, RSP, Becker, Nerd, fangs, Austin, Comirex, GPMG, Speakeasy, humint, GEODSS, SORO, M5, ANC, zone, SBI, DSS, S.A.I.C., Minox, Keyhole, SAR, Rand Corporation, Wackenhutt, EO, Wackendude, mol, Hillal, GGL, CTU, botux, Virii, CCC, Blacklisted 411, Internet Underground, XS4ALL, Retinal Fetish, Fetish, Yobie, CTP, CATO, Phon-e, Chicago Posse, l0ck, spook keywords, PLA, TDYC, W3, CUD, CdC, Weekly World News, Zen, World Domination, Dead, GRU, M72750, Salsa, 7, Blowfish, Gorelick, Glock, Ft. Meade, press-release, Indigo, wire transfer, e-cash, Bubba the Love Sponge, Digicash, zip, SWAT, Ortega, PPP, crypto-anarchy, AT&T, SGI, SUN, MCI, Blacknet, Middleman, KLM, Blackbird, plutonium, Texas, jihad, SDI, Uzi, Fort Meade, supercomputer, bullion, 3, Blackmednet, Propaganda, ABC, Satellite phones, Planet-1, cryptanalysis, nuclear, FBI, Panama, fissionable, Sears Tower, NORAD, Delta Force, SEAL, virtual, Dolch, secure shell, screws, Black-Ops, Area51, SABC, basement, data-haven, black-bag, TEMPSET, Goodwin, rebels, ID, MD5, IDEA, garbage, market, beef, Stego, unclassified, utopia, orthodox, Alica, SHA, Global, gorilla, Bob, Pseudonyms, MITM, Gray Data, VLSI, mega, Leitrim, Yakima, Sugar Grove, Cowboy, Gist, 8182, Gatt, Platform, 1911, Geraldton, UKUSA, veggie, 3848, Morwenstow, Consul, Oratory, Pine Gap, Menwith, Mantis, DSD, BVD, 1984, Flintlock, cybercash, government, hate, speedbump, illuminati, president, freedom, cocaine, $, Roswell, ESN, COS, E.T., credit card, b9, fraud, assasinate, virus, anarchy, rogue, mailbomb, 888, Chelsea, 1997, Whitewater, MOD, York, plutonium, William Gates, clone, BATF, SGDN, Nike, Atlas, Delta, TWA, Kiwi, PGP 2.6.2., PGP 5.0i, PGP 5.1, siliconpimp, Lynch, 414, Face, Pixar, IRIDF, eternity server, Skytel, Yukon, Templeton, LUK, Cohiba, Soros, Standford, niche, 51, H&K, USP, ^, sardine, bank, EUB, USP, PCS, NRO, Red Cell, Glock 26, snuffle, Patel, package, ISI, INR, INS, IRS, GRU, RUOP, GSS, NSP, SRI, Ronco, Armani, BOSS, Chobetsu, FBIS, BND, SISDE, FSB, BfV, IB, froglegs, JITEM, SADF, advise, TUSA, HoHoCon, SISMI, FIS, MSW, Spyderco, UOP, SSCI, NIMA, MOIS, SVR, SIN, advisors, SAP, OAU, PFS, Aladdin, chameleon man, Hutsul, CESID, Bess, rail gun, Peering, 17, 312, NB, CBM, CTP, Sardine, SBIRS, SGDN, ADIU, DEADBEEF, IDP, IDF, Halibut, SONANGOL, Flu, &, Loin, PGP 5.53, EG&G, AIEWS, AMW, WORM, MP5K-SD, 1071, WINGS, cdi, DynCorp, UXO, Ti, THAAD, package, chosen, PRIME, SURVIAC,UFO.

[jamboi]

113. I don't get it. What was that? n/t

[truehawk]

78. I just had a chilling thought

What if the FBI has been feeding the Kerry and Edwards disinformation?

They tell the "leadership" to "retire don't make waves, lull the perps into complacency so there will be more time for us to collect evidence", don't interfere or jepordize a Federal Investigation, or worse Yet a Homeland Security Investigation.

Anyone remember the odd gag rules in the Patroit Act, the ones where records are solicited and those the records are solicited from can't talk about the request?

And there would be reassuring little bits released here and there.
But there is acutally NO intent to procecute the fraud, and they are just tying up the leadership until the clock runs out?

[mdb]

84. I notice people are talking about the source being the technicians.

I see the source as Washington and Houston not the technicians. The technicians talked to Washington and Houston.

Here's a couple excerpts from the first article.

"According to informed sources in Washington and Houston".
<snip>
"the leak about the money and the rigged election apparently came from technicians who <snip,reneged> are revealing the nature of the vote rigging program".

[shraby]

88. Could this have been part of the plan?

They could have messed with the machines if there were some there.

Fla. State Elections Office Evacuated Nov. 1, 2004


TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) - A suspicious package was reported Monday in the building that houses Florida's Division of Elections, and employees were kept out while the building was searched.

Many employees of the division are housed in other buildings and the evacuation wouldn't affect Tuesday's election, said Alia Faraj, a spokeswoman for the Department of State, which oversees the elections agency in the state that was ground zero for the disputed 2000 race.

Firefighters and police were called to the building at about 6:30 a.m. when a security guard in the building reported the package, said police spokesman John Newland.

A police hazardous device team was still in the building at midmorning and there was no word on whether anything had been found, he said.

(more)
<http://www.politics.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4588574,00.html>

[WiseFawn]

135. This is important

I had not heard about this. There is thread stared to report things like this, but I don't know where it is or the name of it. Has anyone sent this to black box or anywhere?

[rdmccur]

142. Citizens for legitimate Government

You can see the article posted there

[paparush]

92. Got to work this onto TV somehow...

As Rove knows so well (and proves over and over again), the Public will buy anything they see on TV. 'Course, after the CBS/Rather/Documents fiasco, who's going to step up to the plate and take a swing at this?

I'm new to DU! 2nd reply! DU has quickly become my first stop on the web.

[senseandsensibility]

93. Welcome to DU!!

Enjoy it!!:)

[mdb]

97. Here is a a thought.

There were a lot of headlines on Nov 2nd reading "Terrorism Concerns Unrealized at Polling Places". People (poll workers) were concerned about terrorism this day.

Could the Bin Laden tape coming out a couple days before polls opened, been a way to get posing FBI and Homeland Security into the polls?

[Chasing Dreams]

99. That is very interesting indeed...n/t

[truehawk]

100. They hacked Florida in 2000 without ground support. But

But if you were going to manufacture a mandate from the rube Goldberg collection of voting machines in this country, you would need people on the ground to make try to even the results out a bit among the machine types.

And as has been pointed out here early, it would have to be done late or after the polls closed, to minimize accidental "more votes than voters" phenomena, and they got that anyway because of the absentees.

So other than a very late shift, and more votes than voters, and less votes recorded in Democratic precincts than the pollwatchers witnessed, what would be the tell-tale signs?

[NVMojo]

102. surely we all should have understood the minds of the neocons...

were we really so naive to think they were going to release their clutches on the White House so easily by letting a few little votes get in their way? These people never had any intention of losing their control of America and we all should have been aware that they were stopping at nothing to see to it.

After the Halliburton crap, the stalling and manipulating of the 9-11 investigations, the nasty smearing of a decorated Viet Nam vet, Abu Graib, and on and on, these bastards should not still be in control of our country. And don't forget, editors across the nation agreed with this too.

[Alizaryn]

103. I thought I was nuts thinking about things like that...

THANK YOU, I feel much better now. I have been questioning my mental state because my thoughts were wandering through those possibilities!

[rosyhue]

117. you aren't nuts for feeling iffy about terror scares

remember, though - B***sh didn't need a Bin Laden video to create fake homeland security alerts. We've been hearing terrorists wanted to disrupt the election all summer.

[rosyhue]

115. Bin Laden Tape Was Real, Not A Ploy (IMO)

I wouldn't get sidetracked thinking the BL tape was a B***sh stint.
The full version of BL's tape wasn't released by the mainstream media. We received the condensed version. The full transcript is avail online. No B**sh plant would say the things BL says on the video. Examples:

9/11 hijackers were given 20 minutes to hit the towers. He claims to have been shocked the current US admin took so long to respond.
He also mocks B**sh for continuing to read "My Pet Goat" upon hearing the news (as seen in Fahrenheit 911)

American bombings have killed thousands of muslim kids abroad
(he goes into detail about this)

the B**sh family learned their dirty tricks from crooked middle eastern politicians

B**sh stole the 2000 election (again, he goes into more detail)

the American people aren't too swift for allowing themselves to be mislead by B***sh

B**sh is akin to a "Naughty She-Goat"

Come on. It's highly doubtful B**sh and the boys would say these things if they concocted the video.

[Debbie13]

121. LINK to Bin Laden transcript

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A1C-B21F-2BC36E87F61F.htm

[mdb]

137. I have no doubt the tape was real.

The release date is what I am questioning.

[eleny]

107. Integrated Payment Systems, Inc.

I noticed the mention of Integrated Payment Systems, Inc of Englewood, Colorado. When I Googled the name Integrated Payment Systems, First Data hits came up. Looks like they may be the same company. The company handles the nuts and bolts of credit card transactions as well as Western Union transactions. It's a Fortune 500 company and one of the largest companies in Colorado.

Charlie Fote is the CEO. And he has taken a big interest in immigration issues. One article on the net asserts that his interest in immigration is because many illegal immigrants use Western Union to send money home to their families and so Western Union makes a bundle in fees. Charlie Fote's stand on immigration policy is in line with GW Bush's and he contributed to the shrub's campaign.
http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/colorado_englewood_80110.asp

Fote butted heads with Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colorado. Tancredo wanted to put a tax on monies sent by aliens out of the country.
"Tancredo proposed placing a 5 percent tax on remittances last month after reading a Washington Post article detailing how individuals in the U.S. send $30 billion a year in remittances to Latin America.

"If the report is correct, even a small levy on remittances could generate millions or even billions of dollars for things like better border enforcement," Tancredo said in May."
http://www.talkaboutgovernment.com/group/alt.politics.immigration/messages/308461.html
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=74207

No comment from me on Tancredo and his stand on immigration. It's just interesting to note that this article points out that Fote then contributed to Joanna Conti's campaign. She lost her bid to unseat Tancredo in the House.

All this peaked my interest since Bush* went on his trip south and met with Fox to talk about immigration policy. Fote and First Data/Integrated Payment Systems must be happy that Bush* is in office. Further Googling didn't turn up any other connection with Bush.

[jamboi]

114. I've corresponded w/ Madsen and think this story deserves our research

So I'd like to propose we create a new thread to be a working thread focusing on research. I propose we use this thread (the one I'm writing in right now) to sort out our doubts, skepticism and discussion and arguments about how worthwhile Madsen's story is or isn't of our efforts.

I have actually corresponded with Madsen over the past two days and I have to say he's passed my skepticism test at least to the point where I'm ready to begin researching and to encourage others do practical research work. He said he would update his report tonight and indeed he did. His new article lined up excellently w/ what he had revealed in our correspondence. I'm ready to go forward. Who is with me? I'll post the link to the new thread soon. The rest of this below is a post I put up in the old thread hours ago as I first read and considered his second post.

JamBoi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sat Nov-27-04 06:52 AM by jamboi
Well, hmmm... I'm evaluating it myself. It lines up perfectly with what

he had sent me, with even a little more info. Now that he's publicly stated this stuff I feel okay about putting out what he'd sent, and maybe this will speak to his credibility.
---------------------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 11/26/2004 3:38:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, jamboi writes:
" Actually the folks at DU have been churning up a ton of research to try to check out the story, and this could be extremely helpful to you. We are all just trying to connect the dots."

Hi,

could use the DU researchers to check on following:

1. I thought someone earlier posted something that said Five Star Trust was incorporated on Nevis. That post seems to have disappeared. Perhaps that person could repost.

The business name of the entity that allegedly paid the vote riggers is: Five Star Investment, Ltd. (it is organized as a corporate trust).
2. Any information on an Equity Financial Trust would be helpful. They allegedly paid the money to Five Star via a Toronto-based bank. They may have funneled the money from the Cook Islands' "folding tent" accounts (the ex-Enron and Saudi money).
3. The voter riggers's controllers -- largely based in Dallas -- may include retired FBI agents, some may have held on to special government badges/credentials to fool polling place officials.

wayne madsen
------------------------------------------------------------

So one thing is that people can certainly follow up researching his the points he makes to see how much water it can hold. It still seems a little early to go hog wild with it without more verifiable info. Responding to the previous poster I think it will definitely be a info drip, not a gush. Hmmmm... let me think more on this one.

JamBoi

[mzmolly]

140. Start the thread ... and they will come.

;)

Excellent idea! :toast:

[rdmccur]

143. With you

I think you have a plan that deserves some outside efforts.
Not sure at the moment how I can help though....
Think --who would be interested in unravelling this?

[darthdemocrat]

148. How about looking into FBI/Homeland Security activities

I've already seen press about Warren County OH and activity at schools in NM and FL linked in posts on DU. Warren County has been higher profile in the press but school shutdowns and investigations right before the election would have been a minor story.

[jamboi]

119. NEW STRATEGIZING THREAD FOR US TO COORDINATE ALL THIS WORK

For those of us who want to help connect the dots in Madsen's hypotheses there is a new strategizing thread located below to follow up on all the good work that Eloriel and so many others are doing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=5684

[robbedvoter]

134. "Follow the money" - and we have a check - a big one.

But accepting that would mean to accept we had no election so....um, no.
let's scream conspiracy theory! We lost! We just have to work harder, get some values, be nice to them....:eyes:

[NVMojo]

153. here's another Kick!

:kick:

[Pam-Moby]

154. Kick

This is great news about this update. Madsen keep up the good work.

[ailsagirl]

155. kick

[ailsagirl]

156. Found more websites with Madsen's story

Now these are NOT mainstream news sites-- nonetheless, I think it's important that the story gets out.

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/1706719.php

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2514 (English website)

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/

http://www.ballotintegrity.org/DCForumID1/194.html

http://www.total411.info/

http://patrickhenrythinktank.org/

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4533 (European website)

[rdmccur]

158. another one

Here's another: http://www.legitgov.org/index.html

[Vote4Kerry]

157. Olbermann responded to me about this--here is what he said

Got an email from Keith Olbermann about this. Here is what he said in his email about the updated report:

"pardon me, computer glitch (I assume)... ONE check to cover the entire operation? Did it have a memo line reading "For Fixing Election"? It's madness..."

[Patsy Stone]

159. Rarely is a Smoking Gun Labeled as such

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2757516#2758029

Here's a Keith interview in the NY Observer dated for this coming Monday. Enjoy! He rocks.

[jamboi]

160. I got Olbermann talking w/ Madsen now and so KO may change his tune.

Keith wrote something similar back to me before I encouraged them to talk, so lets see what he says after direct contact and further consideration.