Obama was disgustingly effusive about the Bush Campaign and

[saracat]

very confident of a Kerry loss. Not a mention of vote fraud from him. Letterman did a very nasty piece on Kerry involving a "loser" library and training kids to be losing presidential candidates. I guess I don't have any more tolerance for these people. Obama wasted no time becoming a Bush fan. And I don't find the Kerry bashing at this point funny.

[ahyums]

1. especially given that there's a good chance Kerry didn't even lose

I think Obama's taking the bipartisan business a bit too seriously. I hope it won't last because he would be a very effective advocate.

[karlrschneider]

2. That pissed me off too. I'm done with Letterman. He isn't even funny.

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[barbaraann]

5. Letterman used to be amusing.

He's not even amusing now.

[The Doctor.]

3. Sorry... I missed it... link?

[roguevalley]

4. I hope he understands that he is serving the people and that his

ego had better remember that. He has been enormously feted for a new kid on the national scene. He owes his allegiance to his state and our party and values. If he turns something less than that, I will be SEVERELY disappointed. He's only human but he better remember which side he is on. We already have too many of the other kind. If Daschle doesn't teach anyone the futility of this course, no one will.

[ahyums]

8. I think he's positioning himself early for a presidential race...

who knows when, I wouldn't have thought before 2012 and that would be horrendous because it would have meant that we would have lost 08 (unless of course Kerry is still somehow inaugurated). I think he's very obviously though trying to make himself a man for all America - it's a bit too obvious for my liking, I don't think it'll work and I don't think he has to do it. He is a great persuasive speaker and that's the key part, he can persuade he can win people over and that's exactly what he should be doing, not switching to fit some theoretical demographic.

[saracat]

10. Amen brother. You have it right!

Tom Daschle is the quintessential example of what went wrong with the Democratic Party and why both bipartisanship and centrism won't work. If they did, Tom Daschle would be majority leader today instead of losing his seat. I hope that Obama notes well that the Repugs didn't even attend Daschle's goodbye speech and understands they do not acknowledge our existence let alone work with us. We cannot continue to respond to this type of contempt with evenhanded graciousness. They use it against us and destroy us with the charge of being weak!

[New Earth]

6. yuck

:puke:

[Nordic]

7. what do you expect. He's a DEMOCRAT

they all act like that.

Which is why I'm done with the fucking party.

[Thurston Howell IV]

9. I saw the program and I got a different impression

The fact that Obama said that Bush's campaign was well-run doesn't mean Obama has become a Bush fan. Dave asked him about what mistakes Kerry made and Obama mentioned the wind-surfing vacation images as something that didn't connect with work-class people. I didn't see that as Kerry bashing. It is just a statement of fact in response to a question. I'm sure Obama could have come up with a more devastating critique of Kerry's campaign if he wanted to bash him.

Dave Letterman did engage in "Kerry bashing" (if that's what you want to call something coming from a comedian) in a previous bit before Obama came on. Conflating this with Obama seems like a distortion.

Apparently Obama is not going to position himself as a left-wing radical. Although I'm very fond of left-wing radicals, I don't hold this against him.

I would think that we'd want to wait for Obama to actually get to the Senate to give a few speeches and cast a few votes before we conclude he's sold out and gone to the Republican side (something that was absurdly implied in a different thread).

[madozone]

11. Thank you

I missed it, but I was extremely bothered by the level of angst aimed at Obama. Your take sounds much more like Obama as I understand him.

[saracat]

12. There was no reason for Obama to

enthuse over the Bush Campaign as one of the best run campaigns. He just had to congratulate them. Sorry. There are many of us who believe that this election was stolen and it isn't appropriate to congratulate the thief on his heist. And it is even less appropriate to comment as the votes are still being counted. He might have said something to the effect of it appears that way , but the votes are still being counted! And there was no reason for Obama to bring up the windsurfing and use it as an example of "elitism". He even said that it was not the sport of the common man or some such nonsense. That is not a fact. That is Obama's opinion and he ought not to be offering it even when asked. He ought to have demurred.Obama is a charismatic Johnny come lately. He hasn't run enough federal campaigns to comment and should have said so. His ego has exploded and he clearly is sucking up to the WH. I don't have to see how he votes to see an indication of a people pleasing sycophant.

[Thurston Howell IV]

24. You saw a different show than I did

I'm about as anti-Bush as they come without spilling over into blind hate (blind hate being something that Bush is capable of inspiring), and I was not offended in the slightest by anything that Obama said. I didn't see any "enthusing" about Bush's campaign. Sorry -- I just didn't see it. Analysis and opinion, yes; enthusing, no.

I believe the election was stolen as well. Unfortunately, I don't have iron-clad proof. I believe that the vast majority of reasonable, unbiased people who would take the time to look at the stories of voter suppression and very bizarre voting irregularities that seemed to benefit Bush an amazing number of times would conclude that same thing. But apparently, that's not a hill that a first-time, senator-elect wants to die on. God damn it, the fucking candidate didn't even give a fuck!!! Maybe Kerry has some really sophisticated strategy that he's going to spring on us to claim the White House -- cool -- I'm waiting! Is Obama supposed to shove the Democratic Party out of the way and lead the fight on election fraud on his way to being sworn in?

As far as his ego exploding -- I can't say I've seen that either. He has been trying to dampen everyone's over-enthusiasm and expectations since he won the Illinois primary. People (ministers, newspaper assholes and people on the street) were saying that he represents black America's aspirations and dreams. He said black America is too diverse for one person to represent all their aspirations and dreams, and that he was going to focus on representing the people of Illinois. He has consistently responded in this manner to all the hype being thrown at him. He's smart enough to know that most of it is bullshit, and that they tear you down faster than they build you up.

He is a people pleaser, no doubt about that. But sycophant is such a harsh word among friends. All of you who have turned on Obama are amazing! If this is an indication of how we respond to adversity, we're sunk.

[Carolab]

43. I hate to say this

But I never trusted Obama.

[AmyCrat]

25. I agree!

and quite honestly, there's been a lot of Kerry bashing going on here, where you WOULDN'T expect it, yet the collective "we" will jump all over a comedian for making a joke? Let us not forget the many nights of W jokes for many months on end.

I think it's important to address issues in the political arena, but lets not be a bunch of babies and not be able to take a joke. I think we need to keep things in perspective so we don't all look like a bunch of nuts.

[saracat]

32. But it wasn't a joke and it wasn't funny.

I think Jon Stewart is hilarious and he can even make me laugh about the election. This was just vicious. Talk about "Sore loserman" This was worse. It was LOSER!!!!!! in big nasty letters. And as far as looking like a bunch of nuts, to whom are "we" appearing like that? The Republicans , the media? Who the fuck cares what they think? It doesn't help to worry what they think. They are NEVER going to vote for us.

[global1]

13. I Would Have Liked To Have Been A Fly On The Wall When ......

Obama dined with *, Cheney & Rove at the WH. What do you think the conversation went like? Do you think they took out an FBI file on Obama and said something like - "We won't talk about this if you play ball with us". After I heard Obama say he met with this den of thieves I began wondering what may have threatened Kerry into conceding.

[ahyums]

15. I suppose you never know and of course it ha happened in the past

but I really doubt that he would run for office with any major skeletons in his closet, well I know I wouldn't anyway so I suppose I judge people by my own standards or something.

[global1]

21. Kerry Was A War Hero.....

and look what they did to him. What about Amb. Wilson and his wife? What about McCain and his illegitimate black baby? What about Scott Ritter? You don't need major skeletons in the closet. All you need is to be on the wrong side of *Co. They'll cook up something and the RW talking heads will drum it into them brainless minds of their minions. Toast!!!!

[liberalpragmatist]

20. It was a breakfast for ALL New Senators

ALL of them - all 7 Republican ones and both Democrats (Salazar and Obama).

Sheesh.

[anamandujano]

39. something like

now that we delivered your senate seat, we expect you to lead your people to us

[madrchsod]

14. well that does it!

i`m voting out obama when he comes up in 6 years. in fact i`m starting tomorrow working for anyone who will run against him. i just found out he`s a traitor to the fine folks of illinois who voted for him. shit i could have voted for keyes, i mean what`s the difference?

[Bobbie47]

16. I'm from Illinois

and I voted for Obama....he will be a great senator. If he's wrong for Illinois we will vote him out..

[madrchsod]

19. of course he will, but according to the majority here

at du, he is a traitor..this shit has been going on all fucking day..

[saracat]

26. I don't think he is a traitor. He is just a repug lite DLCer

who is pandering to his own ego. He believes his own press. I don't think a wet behind the ears Senatoe Elect ought to be out criticizing the standard bearer of his Party. Maybe I am old fashioned but John Kerry is entitled to a little respect . He has been around the block a time or two and baby Obama is in no position to evaluate the Campaign of a senior Senator let alone the standard bearer. I am afraid Obama will be like the rest of the Democratic yellow bellies we have in the Senate. He was sounding awfully Daschle like. And Daschle would have had better manners than to have bashed Kerry.

[Nordic]

27. Yeah? Well in my experience on DU ...

when you criticize Obama, people go absolutely apeshit.

It's like he cannot be criticized. OH NO! Don't even THINK about criticizing Obama. He is perfect, he is godlike!

It's kind of weird.

[Bobbie47]

30. a traitor to

who?
He's the same man now as before the election...he's extending his hand out trying to grab people and bring them over to ourside.

[Thurston Howell IV]

28. You are irrrational.

nuff said. Unless, of course you're joking. It's hard keeping it all straight when all you have is plain text to work with -- all the conspiracies and trolling and pet peeves, etc.

[Benhurst]

17. Perhaps we should have been a bit suspicious of all the rave

reviews the corporate press has given him. We already have a number of truly outstanding African American legislators. When was the last time you saw puff articles being written about Charlie Rangle by the mediawhores?

[ahyums]

18. His convention speech was extremely impressive and I think that

counts for a lot in perception terms. Having said that I was pretty impressed with Rangel at the convention as well. I think partially at least it's an excitement of the new, plus there is of course the fact that his name is already being touted for the presidency, which does a lot to create interest.

[madrchsod]

22. i was two feet from him during a stop

at our town,he`s charming and very personable with a bright future in illinois and american politics. in the future he may become one of the finest senators in the history of illinois and the united states.

[Nordic]

29. I'm totally suspicious of it

and why shouldn't I be?

For the exact points you mention.

[Leilani]

23. The new Congress has not started yet

& people are bashing Obama.

Classy.

Perhaps some Kerry supporters resent the fact that Obama won.

[saracat]

31. Aren't we all supposed to be Kerry supporters?

And is it classy of Obama to praise the Bush machine and dis Kerry? Strange idea of class.

[liberalpragmatist]

33. It's not dissing Kerry to say that his campaign made mistakes

Nowhere did Obama say that he favored Bush's policies. But a campaign should be measured by one big standard - did it win.

You obviously believe that Kerry won the election. I respectfully disagree - I believe there were irregularities but everything I've read just doesn't add up to a Kerry victory. It disheartens me, and we definitely have to fight for full voting rights and recount (for the principle) but I believe that unfortunately kerry lost.

Obama is a politician. He is a great man, but he is going to be careful with words because he is in politics and has to please a large number of people. Notice that even the House Progressive Caucus and the Black Caucus have not said "Kerry won." Personally, I think this is b/c Kerry didn't win. But even if there were some fraud and Kerry actually did win, neither they nor Obama can just spew out rhetoric at the leftiest-flank of the Democratic Party (let's face it - that's what DU is). They have to represent ALL their voters and be sufficiently statesman-like that they can rise above partisanship when the occasion demands it and when it is sincere from both sides.

And the whole complaint over his breakfast with Bush is asinine. It was a traditional breakfast with the President for ALL new Senators - it's something that has been done after every election and the breakfast included EVERY New senator, Republican and Democrat.

[politicasista]

34. I wonder if the Congressional Black Caucus is mad at Kerry....

for not backing them up in 2000? I don't think so, but they were behind Gore. I don't understand why they aren't protesting anywhere. They have been very silent.

[saracat]

38. I think the complaint about the breakfast is stupid myself,

But ther is no "rising above partisanship from the other side." Tom Daschle saying goodbye to a room empty of his republican collegues should tell everyone something. And Obama "congratulated Bush profusely on a brilliantly run campaign. And as far as representing "all" the people ,you seem to think it okay that he disregard the left. Aren't we part of "all" the people? And again, this people pleasing doesn't work. You can't please "all" the people. Tom Daschle learned that the hard way. You have got to pick a side.And guess what? If Obama is a conservative Dem, I won't support him .He has to prove liberal credentials to me in order to get my vote for anything. Otherwise he might as well be Republican.

[northamericancitizen]

42. I agree 100% with you n/t

[Leilani]

35. We all WERE Kerry supporters

through election day.

The election is over now.

I did not sign a blood oath to support Kerry to my grave.

Some people have gotten obsessive about defending Kerry from any & all criticisms, comments, thoughts, etc.

And for some strange reason, I'm seeing lots of Obama bashing, & the guy has not assumed office yet.I'd like to give him a chance, just like I gave Kerry.

And not all DUers agree with your description of his appearance as praising Bush.

[liberalpragmatist]

36. Agreed

I'm a huge Kerry fan and I've quite defensive when people try to blame the entire loss on him or say he was a terrible candidate or someone who ran a horrible campaign. I thought the campaign was decent, with some key, unfortunate mistakes. And I think he was an excellent candidate who managed to nearly defeat a sitting president in a time of war. Unfortunately, a few mistakes here and there probably cost him victory.

What I really agree with you however is that some people have become overly defensive towards Kerry. DU seems to promote polar extremes. Either people are slamming him and calling him a disgrace, or they're making him a Christ-like figure, immune from all criticism, not just of HIM but of his campaign.

We have to be able to be critical of ourselves. John Kerry himself is said be extremely analytical and prone to self-criticism and constructive-criticism. It's one of the things I admire most about him. And it's something we have to hold ourselves too as well.

[Leilani]

40. You are way too reasonable to be posting tonight.

It seems the trolls have been unleashed.

Seriously, I agree with you pretty much completely. I might have a slightly different view of the campaign, but to pretend that Kerry will take office instead of Bush, or to completely villify him, is ridiculous. And these are the extremes people have resorted to.

Maybe it's the disappointment of the loss, but people are reacting strangely. And they're taking out their frustrations on other Dems.
It's quite destructive, if not downright foolish.

[saracat]

41. Hey I disagree with things Kerry did as well.

I think he should have gone after SBVFT immediately. I don't think he should have listened to any of the DLCers and waited. Kerry only started to generate a head of steam when he listened to himself. But I am not critical of Kerry on national television. I also don't think with his lack of experience that Obama is in any way qualified to judge the campaign. Not and be taken seriously. It was rude and classless. I am giving him a break. I watched the show just to see him. I liked his convention speech. I expected better manners from him.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KnowerOfLogic]

44. Guess he know's which side his bread is buttered on.

Let's face it; the majority of congressional dems don't represent anybody but themselves. They are out for nothing but self-advancement.