Voting Machines Count Backwards in Okla.

[spotbird]

*skip*

All 77 counties use the Optech Eagle voting machines and Tabulator's made by ES&S, Sen Hagel's republican company.

The respectable, conservative "Tulsa World" newspaper reported Nov 3rd that Kerry was winning in 57 of the states's rural counties., with 70% of the vote counted. Turns out that the famous November 3rd report was probably not supposed to be printed.

It represented the counting when the tabulating was about 70% "complete," as they used to say in the old Soviet Unon.

The "official" State of Oklahoma Election Board vote totals released later show Kerry not winning; but, losing in all the state's 77 counties, including the 57 rural counties. Yea, somebody really messed up, big time, and published a partially completed and, I guess you would haver to call it, "fixed" vote.

A simple comparison of total votes for Kerry between the staid establishment mouthpiece, the "Tulsa World" newspaper and the so-called "official" final vote totals at the State Election Board show fewer votes for Kerry in 57 counties than the "Tulsa World" does.

Fifty-seven of the 57 counties clearly demonstrate that Sen Kerry lost 37,982 votes to the ES&S Optech Machines. During the same time period President Bush gained a whooping 393,825 votes.

http://okimc.org/newswire.php?story_id=344

[andino]

1. unfucking believable!

[zann725]

2. Where are the Ukrainians when you need tem?!

[Solitaire]

5. absof*ckinglutely....

so now what?

[Chimpanzee]

6. There's my buddy!

[RevCheesehead]

43. Mine, too

;)

[For PaisAn]

3. So, will they call this a glitch also?

How many instances before this is taken seriously by the media and our elected officials. This is outrageous.

[cyn2]

4. Does anyone subscribe to "Tulsa World"?

This seems like a major story. I wanted to check the original source, but I can't get to "Tulsa World" without paying money. Anyone else belong? (Free to print subscribers

[andino]

7. Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing the original story as well.

[OKNancy]

40. I do and this story is bunk

I never saw any such thing. Kerry has never led in rural counties.
Gore only got 38% and Kerry was less popular than Gore.

[spotbird]

41. Just take a look at what he is talking about.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/O ...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2 ...

Start with the difference in count in Adair county.

[Laelth]

81. Neither link worked.

Let's try them again:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2004.pdf

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004//pages/results/states/OK/P/00/county.000.html

There does seem to be something strange going on here. The Tulsa World numbers are hard to believe. If they're right, Kerry won the small rural counties while * got a lot more votes in the big urban areas. According to CNN's tally, Bush just won them all. Something's fishy.

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--added links.

[Woody Box]

45. Too easy

There is a message here right in this thread claiming Kerry attracted a lot of first-time voters, and many Republicans were not eager to support Bush.

I do find this surprising, yes, but believable.

[MarkusQ]

67. Do you have the article in question?

Do you have the article in question? If so, could you scan & post the data? If you don't have it, could you explain on what basis you think the story is bunk? In other words (to start with), are you disputing the accuracy of the linked article (on the Tulsa World's own web site), or...what?

--MarkusQ

[Woody Box]

8. If this is documented properly...

...it could push the vote fraud issue through creation of a new catchword:

Negative counting

Anybody living in Tulsa and able to achieve this newspaper and scan it?

[andino]

9. Link to state totals.

http://www.state.ok.us/~elections/04gen.html

Also gotta wonder if the vote count for Crazy Ass Coburn was right too...

[spotbird]

10. There were some house races that were unbelievable also.

Something's up.

[whistle]

11. I'm a little confused here, does this mean that Kerry had . . .

. . . a respectable lead at the 70% vote count point and then all ofa sudden, Kerry started loosing votes from the tally while Bush was gaining at an incredible pace? So in the electronic voting machines that happened to be programmed by a company owned by Republican Representative Hagel, there was a secret program code that read something like this:

if (tally favors Kerry and
votes counted greater than or equal to 70%)
begin deducting from Kerry's tally and adding to Bush's tally.

As you can tell, I'm not a computer programmer. However, it must have been way in favor of Kerry at the 70% count total mark and the program made a determination of some sort that it must assign a very large number of votes to Bush in order for Bush to win. But when it projected all the remaining votes (1.4 million total at the 70% mark, meant that just 412,000 votes remained uncounted). Anyone know what Kerry's lead was at the 70% mark?

[s-cubed]

83. QUACK, QUACK, QUACK

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, it probably is a duck. Yes, it's fraud, and it happened all over the country. So much for a mandate. :evilgrin:

[Straight Shooter]

12. Padding for the mandate

As if Wes Clark had no influence there. Yeah, right.

"Negative counting" is an excellent term! :thumbsup:

Try sending a PM to althecat or TruthIsAll, and ask if they know who is in Oklahoma. Also, I bet Skinner would be able to direct it to someone coordinating that.

Which reminds me, has this been posted in the State forum under Oklahoma?

Mind-boggling.

edit: PM Eloriel, too.

[Patsy Stone]

13. Are you telling me that OK wanted Kerry?

Even for a minute, that rural Oklahoma, had Kerry up? Really? Oklahoma? That would indeed be a miracle.

I understand the implications of the article. I just have a problem believing that JK would have been ahead in North Texas.

[andino]

14. We have a Dem gov. elected in 2002...

And a few polls showed kerry close. No way it was 65-35 Bush.

Also Carson was ahead last poll I looked at. Once again no way Crazy Ass Coburn got it by 10% points...

[Patsy Stone]

18. That's why I asked

I had no idea that OK was even a possibility. I agree that many, many bad things happened during this black day. I had read above that Kerry was ahead in 57 rural counties in OK, and it seemed that if that were the case, there would be no red states.

I beleive that these were widespread "shenanigaii". I have no problem believing that OK was messed with along with most of the other states.
I just didn't know that it would have mattered. Now I am more upset.

[spotbird]

25. There is no possibility that Oklahoma went Kerry.

Any argument that carries that premise is doomed.

The point is that there were irregularities which could have cost some state and/or US house races.

[dewaldd]

27. Exit poll had only 35% for Kerry in OK

[AuntiBush]

36. Wishful thinking

anyone catch this phase from that link? "But, the money is good and the living is easy in Oklahoma, where "The Oklahoma Observer" says 20% of the people can't even read."

Gotta watch every news piece out here.

[geo]

44. Not necessarily the issue...

Hi all,

The issue is to prove fraud, and therefore cast doubt on the machines, and possibly the vote in that state. If machines were counting backwards, and if there are verifiable midday totals higher than final totals (to the tune of thousands of votes) then we need to make the case against the machine.

Remember y'all, part of the fight is getting these screwy machines out of the picture. :) Also, something like this, if pursued, could get people talking and could help support broader claims that the 2004 election was tainted on behalf of Mr. Bush.

Warmly,

George

[rainbow4321]

90. Lots of smoldering guns around....

As long as people are looking into specific counties...can someone explain how Dallas County, TX residents were cool enough to elect a Hispanic Lesbian and yet JK lost the county by 2%??

Sheriff
Vote for 1
(WITH 720 OF 720 PRECINCTS COUNTED)
Danny Chandler (REP). . . . . . . 319,494 48.65
Lupe Valdez (DEM). . . . . . . . 337,228 51.35
Total . . . . . . . . . 656,722




President/Vice President
Vote for 1
(WITH 720 OF 720 PRECINCTS COUNTED)
George W. Bush (REP). . . . . . . 345,482 50.33 John F. Kerry (DEM) . . . . . . . 335,871 48.93

[spotbird]

15. No, I haven’t seen a single suggestion of that.

What were saying is the vote count was inaccurate, which is not a trivial issue. The Oklahoma House was lost this cycle.

[elizm]

50. Oklahoma

If the Republicans wanted to make sure W. won the popular vote AS WELL in 2004, why would they not 'pad the vote' in places where no one would look i.e. RED STATES?

[spotbird]

51. Welcome to DU elizm!

Why indeed.

[elizm]

52. Thank you!

[rainbow4321]

Oklahoma/N Texas theories

I'm in North Texas...just north of Dallas. Dallas County was 2% shy of going for JK. Weird thing is...the people in that county elected a Hispanic lesbian for county sheriff. Now, how the hell can the people be open minded and dem enough to elect HER but not JK for Prez?? Tin foil hat moment here: the software was focused on the prez race names and not less threatening county sheriff race.
OBVIOUSLY they didn't go into the voting booth with an anti-liberal state of mind. Could shrub just not stand see Dallas County go blue on him..especially since he had just swung thru there on Nov 1st for a rally with his elite base <who, BTW, would be WAY outnumbered by minorities, gays, and regular people in Dallas County>.

Secondly, I have a sister in Oklahoma who works for a tax company. It's in a rural, church-going, 99% white, conservative town just outside of Tulsa, OK. Back in March/April when a BUNCH of people would be coming in, she would ask them the tax form question "do you want donate $1 to the prez election fund?". First and only thing that they would ask "Is it going to Bush?". She would tell them part of it would be. That would start them off on a long, loud tirade on why they hated shrub and they didn't want to give HIM any money.

She didn't have a single person who gave the money or who had a GOOD thing to say about shrub. So if a town like THIS could have so many people anti-bush, maybe weird stuff DID happen in OK??? The Tulsa area has been hit hard by bad economy in the last 4 yrs, as has Dallas and surrounding cities..shrub may have been just covering all of his bases, even in the "red" parts of the country..who knows...

[Pepper32]

16. Ukraine find more voter fraud, I'm shocked! Glad our election was fair

and accurate. :argh:

[Patsy Stone]

19. Captain Renault:

"I am shocked, shocked to find that there is gambling in here."
Croupier: "Your winnings, Sir."

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. kick

[sepia_steel]

20. HAHAHAHA

I'm SO unsurprised (I'm from Tulsa, but I'm in California for the last 3 years, and I've always been a young liberal - i'm mid 20's now).

As far as Kerry having a chance, almost all the "young-ish" people I know did vote Kerry, and even many of the conservatives there could very well have voted against Bush, just based on every bad thing going on - ESPECIALLY the economy. I also knew lots of over-30's people that would have voted Kerry. So sure, it seems crazy, but I believe he (kerry) had a shot. It's not unfathomable to me.

PS: NO, I do not have an accent. Heh heh. ;)

[IFeelLikeArock]

21. I searched their archives and found no link to any story

How do we know when people are telling the truth these days?

[Woody Box]

22. This shouldn't be a problem

Did you expect to find the stuff online?

The author claims that he has the newspaper 's printed edition from Nov 3. So, asked to substantiate his claim, he should be able to publish a scanned version in the net. Still being carefully, I don't think this is necessary due to the simplicity he presents the numbers. I believe him.

You might ask him, if you doubt it. I endorse careful approach to the story and start gathering election documents in Oklahoma.

[IFeelLikeArock]

26. Maybe someone here lives in Oklahoma

they can go to the library and look at past newspapers.

[spotbird]

29. The library here is closed until Monday.

Would a large library in a major city carry the Tulsa World?

[spotbird]

39. There are links now.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/O...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2...

[Lil]

60. doublechecking that links are correct? maybe busy?

I get "cannot be found" and message to go to their respective home pages. Thanks.

[spotbird]

63. Try this

http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2004.pdf

[Lil]

70. Thanks. Yes that link works.

As I said in #69, "Dare I allow my mind wander so far as to ask *how* those files actually *arrived* at the newspaper? "

[Laelth]

82. Here's the link to the PDF showing the Nov. 3 results report.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2004.pdf

It's there. And these numbers don't jive with the official vote tallies at all.

-Laelth

[texpatriot2004]

23. Oh No, the voting machines are infected and it has spread from

state to state. Other machines have been reported as counting backward. Maybe there is a vaccine, maybe we could get one from Canada...well, no we couldn't do that because that would have to be approved.

[mdb]

24. ahh...a recount is frivolous. no need to test the machines if you won. n/t

[sunnystarr]

53. Dang it must have been that Flu Shot Shortage lol (nt)

[lessthanjake]

28. Doesnt matter

Obviously this is ridiculous but i am sure there is a practical explanation. Because there is no way kerry would ever get close to winning oklahoma. Its close to the most republicans state in the country. And for that reason the bush people would never think of cheating there. They wouldnt need to.

[MarkusQ]

37. A few counter arguments

• If you're trying to build a "mandate" the place to pad the popular vote is where you're sure to win, specifically because people will reason the way you did & not even bother looking.
  
• If you are using some pre-programmed cheat, it may be hard to special-case only the battleground states. It would look darned odd to anyone who even glanced at the code (if st='oh' || st='fl' {...}) if you tried to do it in the code, and even more odd ("Here Bob, this is the code to run in the battleground states...") if you tried to do it outside the code.
  
• It is in general much easier to get away with sneaky things in areas where you have strong backing.
  
• One of the key issues in the whole Ukraine thing is that the soviet-backed candidate is believed to have gotten padded votes in the areas where he was strong. So, in the most closely analogous situation we have at the moment, the facts seem to contradict the assumption that people would never think of cheating in their strong hold.
  

--MarkusQ

[spotbird]

38. Thank you. nt

[lessthanjake]

84. One thing

While a lot of what you say is true, the ukraine thing isnt fully relevant. THey go by a popular vote thing. We dont. So effectively it doesnt matter how much he wins in oklahoma just that he wins. Now i do see what you are saying about the mandate though.

[berniew1]

30. Evote machines counted backwards and lost votes in other states as well

Evote machines counted backwards and lost votes when memory got full in other states as well, such as Florida(Broward County)
see VotersUnited.com web page

[spotbird]

31. We just have to find the 11/3 print edition of the Tulsa World or

This story doesn't have legs.

[spotbird]

32. Here's the link to the Tulsa World

http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2004.pdf

http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2004.pdf

[Stand and Fight]

33. Whoa, hold on folks...

I have to step up and say that there is no way in hell that Kerry would have won Oklahoma. I know for two reasons -- I was the Comanche county coordinator for Wes Clark's bid to be drafted. Not to mention, I live here, and I am telling you now that the people here are very much pro-Bush. I've talked with other country coordinators from the primaries, and they all said the same thing, "Bush is going to end up carrying this state by around 65% no matter who we put up." I can tell you now that speculation that Kerry would have won Oklahoma is wholly unfounded. Even the dammed young people here voted for Bush over Kerry because they rely on the likes of Limbaugh and Coulter and the freaking Lawton constituion fo rnews. I'm very politically active, and while I would believe that there was vote tampering with the Coburn v. Carson vote, I seriously doubt there would have been any need to do so in Oklahoma. However, padding the vote with extra votes in Oklahoma could have certainly added to his 3.3 million lead, which I believe is totally fraudulent. I'm not discouraging people, but I am suggesting you guys really carefully look into this because if you don't have your facts straight you're going to look like asses. Just a little friendly advice from a true-blue Democrat in Oklahoma whose real heart is in true-blue Tacoma, Washington.

[spotbird]

34. It is absolutely true that Kerry would have lost Oklahoma.

That fact is not in dispute.

The Democrats did lose the state house in some very close races, if there were errors in tabulation they should be explored.

As you said there is also the issue of the Bush mandate, how large was it?

[Straight Shooter]

46. Mandate has bush at 3 to 3.5 million more votes than Kerry

Approximately 3 percent of the vote.

Padding is a very real possibility. What's the first word bush threw out? Mandate. The bush team was more than prepared for this. It's as if -- oh my gosh -- they knew.

[s-cubed]

93. Can you get data from Comanche County?

Can you go to the County election office and examine the polling tapes (see Bev's article about auditing Volusia County). Polling tapes should have signatures on them of people who worked. Can we compare at least one county recorded results (* / K split, number of votes, number os registered voters) with what the state reports?

Yes, I have seen the post that says the data is cockfighting: why on earth would Tulsa World screw up? Makes no sense.

I never expected Kerry to win OK: I only thought it was possible that we could prove systematic manipulatic of the numbers.

[spotbird]

35. Start with Adair,

The Tulsa World on 11/3 had the vote
Bush 2137 Kerry 3704 but the final CNN reported reslults were
Bush 4971 Kerry 2560

How did Kerry end up with fewer votes in the final than he had with an incomplete count?

I think the article raises valid questions.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/OK/P/00/county.000.html

http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2004.pdf

[myschkin]

49. too much

maybe a print-fault of the paper...

[geo]

42. SEND TO BBV, HELP AMERICA AUDIT, ETC! Now!!!

Anyone with direct contact info for BBV, Help America Audit, etc. should probably make sure they have this one. Maybe I am blaking out here, but I don't think I heard this yet. :)-G

[Woody Box]

47. Where did the Tulsa World get its data from?

This important question has to be cleared.

The Tulsa World has only 70% of the official votes. Why? What count do this data represent? Don't they include the absentee votes?

I don't think it's a preliminary count, i.e., with 70% precincts reporting. It doesn't make sense to publish something like that in the next day's newspaper.

Interesting discrepancy, but remember the Cuyahoga bubble with the "more votes than voters" issue which was debunked quickly.

[gizmo1979]

48. how would they know

everything in ok is backards,so this for them is actually normal.

[progressoid]

54. Skeptically optimistic

I can't imagine B* losing OK, but those numbers are vexing. Padding the popular vote seems very plausible. Especially in the 'heartland' so they can milk that whole 'morality vote' bullshi...

[melv]

56. Nope, Nope Nope

First of all, a little known fact: Democrats actually OUTNUMBER Repubs in Oklahoma, predominantly in those outlying areas. (1.1 million dems to roughly 800,000 repubs) However, they are your "Old-school" democrats who often don't even get out to vote. Case in point- our most recently elected Democratic governor (Brad Henry)was just a shocked with the news of his win as was his opponent (Steve Largernt, former football player, well known). Know how it happened? Cock-fighting. There was a state question on the ballot proposing the ban of cockfighting. Hello, Governor Henry.


Now as to the Nov 3rd issue of the Tulsa World, please know we are working on it. There have already been countless emails flying around Oklahoma inboxes for issues of the Nov 3 Tulsa World.

We also had our own share of voter problems on Nov 2. In North Tulsa, a predominantly African-American community, we had reports of people dressed as police officers trying to intimidate voters. In south Tulsa we had reports of pre-filled ballots, people petitioning outside the polling place, and broken machines, well, just ALL OVER THE PLACE, with precinct workers saying, "Oh, just put your ballot in that box over there with the stack, and we'll run it through when the machine is back up..." and so on and so on.

Aack!

[Bread and Circus]

61. Isn't impersonating an officer against the law?

[progressoid]

68. Cock-fighting!? Maybe we should try that ploy in some more states

[Bread and Circus]

55. It's interesting, I'd hardly believe this but.....

there are many, many offices where Dems won in OK in 2004

Governor, State Auditor, Attorney General, State Ins Comissioner,
US Congress Dist 2, State Senators 36 seats.

However, Bush got 65.57% of the vote and Kerry only got 34.4%

It certainly wouldn't blow my mind if they padded Bush's numbers
there.

Here's the historical count: Oklahoma

1992

rep 42.6%
dem 34.0%
perot 23%

1996

rep 48.3%
dem 40.5%
perot 10.8%

perot lost about 12% and each party candidate picked up about 6%

2000

rep 60.31%
dem 38.43%

2004

rep 65.0%
dem 34.4%

---

Either the Dems lost major ground in 2000 and even more
in 2004 or IMO the hacking started back in 2000.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that they like "W"
that much more than they like George WH Bush and Dole.

It seems suspicious to me but certainly not conclusive.
The fact that the Governorship went for a Dem this year
is further a little suspicious to me. It just doesn't
seem like that red of a state. But I only spent 10 minutes
looking into this so it's anyone's guess.

[k8conant]

57. Tulsa World used WRONG totals

I was trying to find out where the Tulsa World got their published 2004
presidential results and I found the exact same totals by county in these
2002 results for the cockfighting question:

http://www.state.ok.us/~elections/02sq.pdf

STATE QUESTION 687
INITIATIVE PETITION 365
General Election — November 5, 2002
This measure adds a new section to Title 21 of the Oklahoma Statutes.
The measure makes cockfighting illegal.
Pages 3-5 in the PDF document

It looks like the Tulsa World screwed up bigtime.

:(

[spotbird]

59. Informative first post k8conant.

Welcome aboard!

[Lil]

69. "2002 results for the cockfighting question" this is beyond bizarre

Dare I allow my mind wander so far as to ask *how* those files actually *arrived* at the newspaper?

Anyone else wonder that?

[rehema]

88. No the totals are not the same -please check again

The totals listed in the "Tulsa World" tally does not reflect the full ballot count for Oklahoma.

[jdj]

91. not only that, but how does one stumble back 3 years

accidentally on a website.

[spotbird]

92. It isn't the first set of results.

You'll need to scroll down to find the cockfighting results.

[regularjoe]

95. How on earth did you did stumble upon cockfighting bill numbers

from 2002 that match the reported presidential results of 2004? That is so bizarre. How did you go about searching for the source of the Tulsa numbers?

regularjoe

[joni in ok]

97. Re: Cock and Bull in OK

K8conant...
Are you the "deepthroat" of OK VoterGate?
Inquiring minds would like to know.


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Bob Nichols
[e-mail]
November 30, 2004
Copyright 2004 by
Bob Nichols, Oklahoma City &
Joni LeViness, Tulsa



Tulsa World Faked the Election Results - Got Caught


TW/AP Stonewalling on "Why?"

by Joni Leviness and Bob Nichols

(Oklahoma City & Tulsa) November 30, 2004 - The dramatic election night numbers showing Sen Kerry, the Democratic Presidential Candidate, leading President Bush in 57 Counties were faked by the Tulsa World. TW is an old line Fifty Cent newspaper in Tulsa, Oklahoma, established in 1905.

Oklahoma Democrats, Progressives and Greens all noted that the Tulsa World showed Sen Kerry leading President Bush is 57 counties in Oklahoma in the election overnight report from the Tulsa World November 3rd. Reports are many progressives bought the Fifty Cent Tulsa World news stand copy because of the upbeat county numbers.

That is the Presidential Election news report the Tulsa World faked. Here's what the creative writers at the TW actually did. They captioned the story on page A-10 of the November 3rd newspaper "President: By County." See page A-10 at this address.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2004.pdf

The headline was a lie. The Tulsa World actually printed the Election result numbers by county for the 2002 Cock Fighting State Question.
This is the Internet address for the official State of Oklahoma 2002 Cock Fighting Vote. Look on pages 3, 4 and 5. The county numbers match up.
http://www.state.ok.us/~elections/02sq.pdf

QUESTIONS.
If the Tulsa World never had the real county numbers and ran the 2002 results it was a deliberate act and utterly destroys any credibility they ever had.

Have they been just making this stuff up as they go along using data from the precious election? If, so, to what political or economic end? Do they want to control civic matters that much? Did the Tulsa World editors not think they would not get caught?

Is the Tulsa World economically incapable of state wide coverage and are faking it? Are they broke? How many other times have they done this? Is it a pattern? Just how close to bankruptcy are they?

If they really have the numbers, then why did they choose not to run them? What are they trying to cover up? The TW and AP stonewalled when an investigative reporter requested the real county numbers yesterday.

Why is the Tulsa World stone walling?

It is now 11:09 am Tuesday morning, November 30, 2004. No doubt more information will spill out today. Watch this space for more news.

Copyright 2004 by Bob Nichols and Joni LeViness. All rights reserved. Permission for reposting is allowed provided the complete text and attribution are kept intact. Bob Nichols writes in Oklahoma City and is a Project Censored Award winner. Nichols & LeViness encourage your comments at [e-mail]

[faulkingtruth]

104. Nice work

Our website posted an article about the Tulsa World fiasco, entitled: "Tulsa World on Okla. Vote Totals: We Have no Idea"
at http://www.faulkingtruth.com/Articles/Commentary/1022.html

Here are a couple of excerpts from that article:

I'm as skeptical as the next guy (provided the next guy isn't a neocon) about our current system of voting, especially when the votes are tallied by EE&S Corp (as they are in Oklahoma), who have clear ties to numerous ultra-right individuals and organizations, and have already been implicated in several other voter fraud investigations. But let's be honest about this - why would anyone waste their time rigging the election in a state that Kerry didn't even bother to campaign in, and that Oklahoma Democratic Party officials conceded to Bush without even a semblance of a fight?

In the end, the "mini-voting scandal" in Oklahoma might turn out to be nothing, but that's not the real issue here. The real issue is the pattern of deceit, confusion, and misinformation that this election has spawned, not just in Oklahoma, but nationwide. Unless we demand a full and thorough accounting of all the votes that have been miscounted, lost, stolen, or simply misplaced, we can never be certain whether our most important right as an American, our right to vote, is still intact. In Oklahoma, we still have our paper ballots, and they don't have "hanging chads". We can, and should, demand a full recount. Unfortunately, many states don't have that luxury, if we allow our entire voting system to be taken over by an electronic voting system controlled by a few questionable companies, our vote won't matter, and our elections will become nothing more than another commodity to be bought and sold by those in power.

I am adding an update based on your work. It should be posted tonight. If you want me to credit you directly, let me know. [e-mail]

[Sammi]

58. Oklahoma is a REPUBLICAN Bible Belt State

I can guarantee you that there is no fraud going on in Oklahoma. My former roommate is from Oklahoma.

It's very Republican... very Bible Belt.

[spotbird]

65. I guarantee that the most corrupt people on the planet

are bible thumping Republicans.

Their religious faith gives them license to do whatever needs to be done for the love of God, man's laws be damned.

I don't know if there were problems in Oklahoma, but I do know that the religious right is not going to keep anything honest.

[karlrschneider]

75. We have been widely known for corruption for decades...they don't even

bother to hide it. :eyes:

[rainbow4321]

74. So is TX, but....

JK won Travis County <where Austin is> and El Paso County...he lost Dallas County by only 2%, and if you look at a color coded county map of TX, down by the TX-Mex border is blue..and in Harris County <where Houston is> he had around 45%...kind of a big number for being down in shrub family country. If shrub's home turf of TX can have that much BLUE, how the hell did OK counties ALL go red??

[Carolab]

62. Send this to KO

This is the type of thing that he needs to start talking about.

I e-mailed him and told him there is confusion over the "e-voting results" and the tabulated results from punch cards and optically scanned ballots. Told him that there is a repeated, rampant pattern of "more votes than voters" in counties all over the states that used such machines. That Chuck Herrin points out and Bev Harris' evidence from Volusia County proves that the preponderance of the hacking was most likely done at the central tabulators used to tally the results in precincts using these older, "paper ballot" systems, in a "skimming" operation that is discoverable only by examining the precinct results--comparing the numbers on the pollbooks and summary sheets to the final reported results as well as to a hand recount of the ballots.

[bobbieinok]

64. OK has a dem governor....Why??? 3rd party on ballot pulled from

Largent (rep)...... as I recall, 3rd party candidate was anti-tax and anti-turnpike-building-empire

[spotbird]

66. Yep, that and the chickens. nt

[Lil]

71. kick

[Stand and Fight]

72. People!

For the love of God, I am telling you that if you go after this Oklahoma thing, you're going to get the short end of the stick. I canvassed whole precincts here in Oklahoma both during the primaries and the general election, and I am telling you that Bush easily carried this state. Even if there was any padding to the vote in this state -- and I don't doubt the possibility -- Bush would have carried Oklahoma without the padding.

It is very much an "old school" Democrat state. I can assure you as someone who was on the ground here that there is not a snowball's chance in hell that Kerry could win Oklahoma. If anything, I'm surprised that Kerry even managed to get the percentage of votes that he did... I'd like to think that is part of my own efforts, but who the hell knows? There may be percentage-wise more Democrats here than Republicans, but I assure you that Oklahoma Democrats are more like the Republicans than what most of us perceive Democrats to be.

Anyhow, I assure you friends, you will be wasting your time going after perceived irregularities in Oklahoma. Let's put those very positive and needed energies into states like Nevada -- where I was born and raised -- and Ohio and the like. I can tell you that I have a problem believing that Bush won by as much as he did nationally, but it certainly was not a problem for him to do so here. As someone posted above, Oklahoma is very backward. Trust me, I know, I have to live it for a few more years... The majority of people here -- in the bible belt's buckle -- very much believe Bush & Co.'s lies wholeheartedly. I hate it here quite fiercely, but I have a great job for the time being. At least until it becomes too hard to deal with the Rethugs... LOL... Nonetheless, if someone could give me the dough to relocate I'd greatly appreciate it!

[Hobbes199]

73. Carry the state or not, it's about FRAUD.

If you need to garner an extra 11 million votes, it needs to be done in a lot of places — only needs 220 extra votes per precinct (or some such bull).

[melv]

76. bingo

of course we knew Bush would win this state. But let every vote count...in every state!!

[rainbow4321]

89. Alfalfa County numbers also screwy..

Tulsa World has JK with 920 votes
OK election website has him with 470

Even if the Tulsa World didn't have 100% tallied when they went to print, the final vote numbers on the OK webpage should not have been LESS then the 920???!!!! WTF????? Am I reading it all correctly?

http://www.state.ok.us/~elections/04gen_co.pdf

http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2004.pdf

[joni in ok]

103. While you're waiting on Relocation funds...consider...

....It's not about Kerry or Bush
It's about our Democracy!
Since 2000 the Integrity of the vote has gone from bad to worse.
the Duopoly has left us with Lousy Candidates and Extremely lousy candidates.
It doesn't Matter what state, it's are our votes being counted? Highly questionable.
Are we being represented in our govt.? Also highly questionable.
When those questions arise in such a blatant fashion as what's happened here with this TW/AP *yes TWAP debacle where i hear from the TW we got the numbers from the AP if you have a problem with those numbers, you deal with Them. And then the AP says, we Guarantee all our numbers are correct. Genuine, we send them over the Telecom Wire and what the paper prints is out of our hands, you need to deal with Them.
This is Crazy! One State, Two Choices how can you screw That up?
as someone said earlier. Boggles the mind. Absolutely and totally.
It's either the most Backwards ineptness which stretches it, Even for Tulsa! Or it's a piece of a larger mess going on in every state in the nation and is all the more noticeable here Cuz they didn't Feel the Need to be Careful.
In either case Public Radio is picking this up and i'll try to reach some Univ. papers, radio as well as smaller towns in the area and OKC paper as well, to see if they agree with executive editor of the TW Joe Worley, that there's just nothing to report here.

[walkbyfaith7]

77. Simple Programming "Makes Magic"

This is my first post. I read the following article in the days following the election. If it has already been posted elsewhere on this site, my apology for posting it again. I found it interesting and have been trying without success to retrieve it since I first read it, but the Dutch site where I first found the link mysteriously went down for several days. It just came back online this weekend. Following is an excerpt about how easy it is to program the electronic machines to "make magic" - GOP magic, that is. If the link doesn't work, try copying and pasting it directly into the browser.

http://www.rense.com/general59/steI.HTM

Here is how easy it is to "make magic"

-- we need COUNTERS - (B) = Bush; (K) = Kerry; (V) = Vote; (T) = Tally

1. If V = B, add 1 to B
2. If T = 8, add 1 to B; Clear T; Skip 3
3. If V = K, add 1 to K; Add 1 to T

This extremely simple bit of programming would shift 12% of the vote from Kerry to Bush, it would defy exit polls, and it would make it look like Bush had a huge popular win. It is time that the software in these SECRET Republican-owned computers be examined with a deliberate check for instructions that could modify the vote tally.

[lonestarnot]

80. It is being done! blackboxvoting.org

Bev Harris... already found footprints into black boxes in Florida.

[Vote4Kerry]

78. Look at these conflicting vote totals! Fraud did occur!

Here is what I found: Check the vote totals for John Kerry in Adair County Oklahoma, from these two sites:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004//pages/re...county.000.html

http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Fina...0_11_3_2004.pdf

With 100% reporting, CNN says that Kerry got 2560 votes in Adair County

BUT

Tulsaworld says that Kerry got at least 3704 votes in Adair County!!

AND

I read this nice article about how voting machines counted down votes in Oklahoma!

http://okimc.org/newswire.php?story_id=344

[rainbow4321]

85. Here is the OK election board website...

http://www.state.ok.us/~elections/04gen_co.pdf


Looks like it matches up well with CNN's webpage numbers?

[Lil]

86. Results are from "Cockfighting question" in 2002 - see post 57

My question is still:

69. "2002 results for the cockfighting question" this is beyond bizarre

Dare I allow my mind wander so far as to ask *how* those files actually *arrived* at the newspaper?

Anyone else wonder that?

[lonestarnot]

79. 106% VOTER TURNOUT WYOMING!

The republican way!

[texpatriot2004]

87. kick

[s-cubed]

94. Two questions for K8Conant

1. How on earth did you know to scroll over hundreds of pages of pdfs to looking for the exact data that matched?

2. How on earth did Tulsa World copy numbers from a pdf file - not a data file - and mix them up?

If K8Conant can answer the first, he probably knows the answer to the second, and whether this is another red herring planted by our favorite sneark Mr. Rove, or a case of incopetence on the parft of Tulsa World.

[standingup]

96. Google

Oklahoma + 565,967 441,220.

[joni in ok]

98. K8?

That's What I want to know!
K8?

[KAZ]

99. Looks like K8dickwad has retired...

Was called out, and in typical fashion... But, if you ever want to talk cockfights, he's da man!

[joni in ok]

102. OK Votergate

I thought i posted this already:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Bob Nichols
[e-mail]
November 30, 2004
Copyright 2004 by
Bob Nichols, Oklahoma City &
Joni LeViness, Tulsa



Tulsa World Faked the Election Results - Got Caught


TW/AP Stonewalling on "Why?"

by Joni Leviness and Bob Nichols

(Oklahoma City & Tulsa) November 30, 2004 - The dramatic election night numbers showing Sen Kerry, the Democratic Presidential Candidate, leading President Bush in 57 Counties were faked by the Tulsa World. TW is an old line Fifty Cent newspaper in Tulsa, Oklahoma, established in 1905.

Oklahoma Democrats, Progressives and Greens all noted that the Tulsa World showed Sen Kerry leading President Bush is 57 counties in Oklahoma in the election overnight report from the Tulsa World November 3rd. Reports are many progressives bought the Fifty Cent Tulsa World news stand copy because of the upbeat county numbers.

That is the Presidential Election news report the Tulsa World faked. Here's what the creative writers at the TW actually did. They captioned the story on page A-10 of the November 3rd newspaper "President: By County." See page A-10 at this address.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2004.pdf

The headline was a lie. The Tulsa World actually printed the Election result numbers by county for the 2002 Cock Fighting State Question.
This is the Internet address for the official State of Oklahoma 2002 Cock Fighting Vote. Look on pages 3, 4 and 5. The county numbers match up.
http://www.state.ok.us/~elections/02sq.pdf

QUESTIONS.
If the Tulsa World never had the real county numbers and ran the 2002 results it was a deliberate act and utterly destroys any credibility they ever had.

Have they been just making this stuff up as they go along using data from the precious election? If, so, to what political or economic end? Do they want to control civic matters that much? Did the Tulsa World editors not think they would not get caught?

Is the Tulsa World economically incapable of state wide coverage and are faking it? Are they broke? How many other times have they done this? Is it a pattern? Just how close to bankruptcy are they?

If they really have the numbers, then why did they choose not to run them? What are they trying to cover up? The TW and AP stonewalled when an investigative reporter requested the real county numbers yesterday.

Why is the Tulsa World stone walling?

It is now 11:09 am Tuesday morning, November 30, 2004. No doubt more information will spill out today. Watch this space for more news.

Copyright 2004 by Bob Nichols and Joni LeViness. All rights reserved. Permission for reposting is allowed provided the complete text and attribution are kept intact. Bob Nichols writes in Oklahoma City and is a Project Censored Award winner. Nichols & LeViness encourage your comments at [e-mail]

[KatieB]

100. Same machines counted backwards in Guilford County, NC & Broward Cnty, FL

Here is the same kind of story from North Carolina's Guilford County (also ES&S)
11/10/2004 Machine malfunction NC In Guilford County, ES&S early voting machines had capacity problems, which affected anywhere from 6,000 to 20,000 ballots. Story Archive

The totals were so large, the tabulation computer threw some numbers away. Retallying changed two outcomes and gave an additional 22000 votes to Kerry. Story Archive

ES&S explained that the Unity 2.2 tally software reached 32,767 (32K) and began subtracting from the totals (same as in Broward County). ES&S had known about the problem but not told its customers. Letter from ES&S (603K)

http://www.wral.com/news/3891488/detail.html
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/10104576.htm?1c
http://www.votersunite.org/info/GuilfordESS.pdf

[joni in ok]

101. Ayup! Brace for the undertow...It's gonna be a helluva ride!

The Only thing with the ES&$ in OK anyways is that Our Election Board has Programmers who program them ourselves, we don't rely on the company to do so.
And our State Election Commissioner has been Strongly in support of Integrity of the vote.
Here the problem *idon't Think, is in the machines themselves.
I tried posting the following earlier and in True Newbie fashion forgot to put Something in the Subject line.
here goes:

Subject: OK Votergate
Message:
I have it scanned into Acrobat. I also bought 30 copies of the TW Nov.3rd paper.
It's the same. Last Tues. i went in and spent 10 minutes or more just getting a single answer from Wayne Greene on Where did you get your numbers? Do you realize that if their accurate the count goes backwards on one of the candidates? Who at the AP sent you those numbers? Yes but Who? Who at the AP supplies the TW with their AP numbers? Finally he gave me a name: Rick Green, and got all Affronted when i "noticed" they had the same last name and said "They're Not Spelled the same"...me: "Oh! So,...does Yours have an e at the end?"
"YES."
He's the City Editor at TW.
Yesterday and today i had LOADS of fun Speaking with Joe Worley *executive editor @tulsa world.
As well as Rick Green at AP in OKC, His initial sentance to me was "WHAT are you Looking for! What Is your Purpose in Life" I just want the 'real' numbers from the county tallies, Rick: "OH! I know You're just looking for a way to get TW to print a retraction" Me: "Well if the numbers are wrong and they expect to be considered a reliable news source then Yes, i would Hope they would. But what I'm looking for are the Actual numbers from that night by county" Then when we got around to numbers going backwards "OH! So You're mad that You're Candidate Lost!" me: "uhmmm NO, i'm just trying to figure out what happened to Point B...Point A i went in and Voted, Point B i got up had my coffee and checked the returns thus far by the only News source to be quoted in our paper, looked at the County numbers...Which are Bogus and then Point C the State "official Totals" that Said those numbers were bogus. All i want to know is where are the Real numbers and how can i get them."
Then we did the Popular refrain i've come to hate so well of Why do you want to know, the STATE totals are THERE, those are the Numbers to pay attention to! Me; Sorry, but that's Point C. I'm interested in Point B.
Round and round we go. And then! and K8 might find this amusing. Rick:"Our Numbers are Genuine. There may be slight variations from the Election Board numbers but their slight. What you're getting hung up on is what we see all the time. Variations in the numbers when they're "Unofficial" *boy he Pushed the "UNofficial" knob a Bunch! There Are Bound to be slight discrepencies" Me: "But Numbers Going BACKWARDS?....IN 55 counties or more???And if that weren't enough These numbers match up right down to the last digit to the last of the 77 Counties to the Cockfighting Ban Measure which passed Nov.5, 2002."
Rick: "AH!!!! Conspiracy Theories and NOW i see what this is about!
You're Against CockFighting!" Triumph at last, in his voice.
Me: "Nope"
Rick: "So You're FOR Cockfighting!"
Me: "Nope....I'm..."
Rick: "You're just Mad your Guy lost."
Me: "Uh...NO. Look Rick, you continue to try to pigeonhole me with Ulterior Motives. I was Upfront with my motives last Tues. with You and Wayne Greene at the TW, with his senior editor Susan Ellerbach and Joe Worley Yesterday and then Again with You and Joe Today. I just would like to see the numbers"
Rick: "Well we don't keep those numbers, just the end tally by state."
Me: "You send those numbers out to your media outlets, i want to see the 10 pm, the 12 am and 2 am tally that you sent out. Why can't is see those?"
Rick: "We have numbers coming in all night long from feeders from every polling place in the state. Are you telling me you expect us to keep a record of 7:01, 7:02..."
Me: "Oh c'mon! I just want the tallies for three times, are you telling me the AP doesn't have those numbers?"
Rick: "Of Course not. We have our end of the night tally..."
Me: "THAT'S What i Want! That right there! Your "end of the night Tally"!...How can i get THOSE numbers?"
Rick: "Well are You an AP associate?"
Me: "I'm a Voter! Does that make me an associate?"
Rick: "An associate is a media member who runs our stories. THEY can request those numbers. I'm Tired of telling you the same thing over and over. You're wasting My time, Judy's time and the TW's time"
Then he took another call without concluding ours, i hung on for my usual 2 min. and hung up.



*didn't tell him i Voted Neither of the Above, here in OK, that's Our NOTA We have Bush OR Kerry...No Write in, no NOTA box. and so i checked with our election board if i could leave the top blank and still have my vote counted. They assured me it Would and So i did! Then went out that Afternoon with a group and Protested for Ballot Access Reform, we began Okballotaccessreform that speaks of the Banana Republic of OK we've drawn up an amendment which we'll begin distributing this week to our legislatures.

[BlueDog2u]

105. Pathetic

Those guys sound like first class bozos who shouldn't be let within fifty yards of a newspaper.

Keep us posted on what you learn.

[genieroze]

106. delete

dupe