Olbermann blogs about Madsen info

[cyberpj]

• November 27, 2004 | 12:43 p.m. ET

Reportedly According to Apparently Informed Sources (Keith Olbermann)

New York - As of earlyFriday evening, at least 60 viewers and readers had forwarded me cut-and-pastes of -- or links to -- an amazingly intricate conspiracy theory on-line piece that intertwines the Presidential election, Homeland Security, the FBI, $29,000,000 in payoffs, Enron, and the Saudi Royal Family - seemingly everybody except the Visiting Nurse Association of Skaneateles, New York.

Each email has come with the same question: could this possibly be true?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

[geo]

1. only 60?

we need to work on our numbers.. lol :) -G

[elehhhhna]

3. kick for KO

[zann725]

5. While he debunks most of the theory, he did 'put it out there'...

and hopefully that'll open the REAL story up further.

Just hope it doesn't cause him to 'doubt' the accuracy of other stories, opinions we relay to him. He's our main 'support' in MSM. Wouldn't want to lose him.

[cyberpj]

6. SOP it seems to doubt all e-fraud BUT

as you said, he puts it out there.

Seems everything e-vote related implies doubt that anything will change or that it could be true but it does indeed get the thoughts out there --FINALLY.

Could be the best technique so keep it up I say.

[goclark]

13. He put it out there

and hopefully kept his job too.

That is what we want.

He is throwing them the bone to see if they are smart enough to catch it.

It amazes me how the MSM were ALL wrong on the WMD and none of them lost their jobs.

Now Dan Rather retires because he told the truth about AWOL.

[cyberpj]

19. how the MSM were ALL wrong on the WMD and none of them lost their jobs

"...how the MSM were ALL wrong on the WMD and none of them lost their jobs"

First guess is that's because they're in the pockets of the party that benefits from their original "misjudgement".

And that's only if there WAS misjudgement and not collusion.

[noclonyofthechimp]

24. Don't think he questions anyone but the auther. Most of the emails

he got where asking "could this be true" pretty much asking for his journalistic opinion and/or investigation.

[progressoid]

64. Yeah, but how many people read his blog? So is it really out there?

Besides KO's right to question this one. As an investigative report it's mostly allegations. This is gonna need a LOT more hard facts.

[tinfoil_beret]

8. That has to sting. eom

[Clark2008]

36. Well, I didn't forward it because I think it's full of holes

But, that's just me and my former reporter's mind.

:D

[SomthingsGotaGive]

48. hey Geo

This was my favorite part of the blog.....


"But in a time when serious investigations of what did or didn't happen on November 2nd are vital to the sanctity of our voting process, reporting - in the mainstream media and on the internet alike - has to be solid and reasoned."


I love a good conspiracy theory and believe many to be much more than theories.

Madsen's original article and follow up have all the elements of a great theory. Unfortunately as it stands now it looks like it is only that dressed up as a story.

I think Madsen and others like him play an important role, when that role is clearly defined.

I think Keith understands this also. It's Keith's job to report the news, not tell stories or hypothesize he leaves that up to Madsen and his ilk.


In effect Keith gets to pull a Limbaugh....

"some people say"...

While never actually associating himself to the story he gets it out there.

Sure he does it in a more honest way, first questioning the author's credibility, then debunking most of the story but he is putting is out there. Qualifiers and all.


Maybe Madsen knows this too and decided to take a chance by removing the usual caveats inserted by journalists like him, hoping to generate just enough interest in the story to create the leverage he needs to finish the story off.

Perhaps his 'sources' want verification of their own that by talking to him they would get the media exposure they need to feel safe about coming forward.

Anyway this appears to be another great crime drama. Very intriguing.

[jamboi]

50. I wouldn't call that a debunk, just healthy skept. and also not about 2nd

article, which gives enough more details to start to hold together better. I've personally corresponded w/ Madsen and while he obviously doesn't have all the dots connected yet, I think its worth persuing and he's earned enough credibility in my eyes to start researching.

[cyn2]

2. Keith does it again! He's the greatest! n/t

[AmyCrat]

4. Was a good article

and he makes a very good point...

<snip>---
But in a time when serious investigations of what did or didn’t happen on November 2nd are vital to the sanctity of our voting process, reporting - in the mainstream media and on the internet alike - has to be solid and reasoned.
---<snip>

[geo]

7. Keith doesn't reference the update article...

Hi all,

Did anyone else notice that Keith seems to have blogged before reading the update article? :)

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112604Madsen/112604madsen.html

Here is the DU thread about the update article:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x81645

Warmly,

George

[cyberpj]

9. sent it to him

sent the update info to Olbermann

[Karenca]

10. Should we email

Keith the updated article?

[flyarm]

28. re:keith doesnt reference the udate article

i have read that update..and i feel it leaves more holes than the first..every time i read it i see more holes...just read the first paragraph..and read it honestly to yourself!!

November 26, 2004—Additional information on the buying of vote riggers with Saudi and former Enron funds has been obtained. The epicenter for the vote rigging operation is Dallas, Texas, and the operation may involve retired FBI agents who used a well-established "good ole boy" network to arrange for access to polling precincts by electronic voting machine technicians who took advantage of various November 2 security "lockdowns" to illegally alter the tabulation of votes in favor of Bush. Some of the retired agents may have used courtesy credentials issued upon retirement to fool unsuspecting polling place workers.

example:

Additional information on the buying of vote riggers with./.blah blah..
Enron funds has been obtained.

by who?? when


example:

. The epicenter for the vote rigging operation is Dallas, Texas, and the operation may involve retired FBI agents who used a well

may involve?? may involve?? that means nothing...look up the word may...you may or may not...may is a nothing word...were they involved or not?? may means nothing...

no writer worth a grain of salt would report something may have happened...not and keep credibility..and especially discussing the fraud of a presidential election for the president of the most powerful person in the world...facts must be much better and much clearer..or build the stiry till you can say factually not ..maybe...

example:

network to arrange for access to polling precincts by electronic voting machine technicians who took advantage of various November 2 security "lockdowns" to illegally alter the tabulation of votes in favor of Bush.



he continues to state something he has put no facts behind...( he is not saying polling places..please read that and understand that..tabulation places he is talking about!!!!!!!)what other tabulation place has been locked down other than warren ohio..no proof has been given nor any other place has been found ..to back this statement.


i am not saying nothing is here..there may well be..but please be rational..we are talking overturning a presidential election..it will not be done with articvles so vague, and unsubstantiated like this one...that is not rational!..if this story was indeed not planted by somneone wanting us to all look like tin hats ..why would these so called fantom ex fbi techies not have gone to keith olberman or someone who can get the story out like 60 minutes..its what other fbi and cia guys have done...if they are concerned for the welfare of the nation or their lives.,.they will get their story out there big time..its how they protect themselves...like joe wilson....like richard clark..they go big very big to protect themselves..fbi guys are no stupid they know this!!

would they go to an almost unkown to the vast majority of americans?? yes we all know who madsen is but we are not the vast majority of americans!!

a story is only as good as its facts, not facts with a hundred holes in the story!!

me thinks madsen has been set up..by the rove machine..to hide bigger things or questions or to shut us up once and for all...to discredit the internet tin foil hat people..as they see us...we have to be much more vigilant..

[life_long_dem]

57. Hey flyarm,

get with the program. DU posters generally look at both sides of an article, then decide which side is credible. You sound like a bushbot, so until you post something positive I will discount everything you post. Anything positive to say?
Kerry on.......

[flyarm]

71. i wont lie

iwill not lie just to please someone else..i just wont do it, i am not saying madsen is wrong or not telling the truth, i can not judge that, but i haven't seen anything to make me jump up and sing hallaluia yet! no one would like this story to be truer than i, i will just wait and see. this time last year i was posting this mans story about the plastic turkey and bush in iraq, his facts were incorrect, and many of us dems were left with egg on our faces because his story was lacking in full facts , in fact he had several incorrect facts!! i have learned my lesson, and will wait and see!! i prefer to deal in facts or details i can verify. mr madsen just leaves me short of anything verifiable , and i find this too vague.
i would rather be wrong than have many of us who find this the most serious election in my lifetime made into a tin hat story. sorry but thats how i feel.
I take this extrememly serious...47 of my coworkers were killed on 9/11 and i have worked too hard ( in this election and campaign) and fought too hard to get the truth for their families, to take one mans word without so much as to question what he is saying when it is so vague.

I hope and pray for all of us his story is correct and that he nails bushes a$$ to the wall!! for many of us we will never rest until we see bush in an orange suit with shackles on his ankles. i will never rest until then , thats for sure!

this is very serious to me..peoples lives depend on it.

from a just retired 33 yr american airlines flight attendant ny based, 2001 flight attendant of the year new york base.

[Paligal]

46. Update also is vague

I read the update, and he neither posts a picture of the check, nor does he specify which election "lockdowns" he is refering to. That is just basic. Finding out which "various lockdowns" occured is a matter of a basic Google search. To my knowledge, there was only one "lockdown" on election day, that of Warren County. So what are the "various" lockdowns he is refering to?

Look, his story may be true. But he is being very irresponsible as a journalist by making vague allegations without backing it up with specifics that we can verify. Of course there may be things he doesn't yet have. But it is very suspect when he makes vague allegations that he could easily support if they were true. You just can't do that when you are reporting on a story which would obviously be MAJOR news. I could let sloppy journalism slide if he was reporting on a kitty up a tree. But he is alleging a massive government scheme to rig the election of the most powerful (barely) country on the planet, and he uses terms like "informed sources", and "various lockdowns"...?

[mdb]

11. Has anyone sent Olberman's article to Madsen? n/t

[Peggy Day]

12. Sorry-don't agree that he's so great

It seems like self interest to me. He always has that skeptical tone to his reports/newscasts. He is the only one willing to talk about it, however he seems to be afraid to really go there.

[BlueCaliDem]

29. You're Confusing Olbermann with Leslie Blitzer, Judas Woodruff...

...Chris Megamouth Matthews, and Joe Dead-Woman-In-My-Florida-Office" Scarborough, just to name a few.

[IAMREALITY]

37. Actually, He was Dead ON

I loved his blog on this. I think it summed up perfectly what the majority of us were feeling about that article. It doesn't mean the article is a fake or the plot unreal, it just means there are far too many holes right now for us to expect the MSM to take it seriously. Hopefully in the coming days more details will be released to provide further credibility to the story, but in the meantime Keith nailed the synopsis pretty well.

[Clark2008]

38. He's supposed to be skeptical

He's a journalist.

At least he's not buying everything the Bushies say out of hand like the rest of the media.

His job is to question, to ask questions to make the reader/viewer ask questions of their elected officials. He's not an official investigative arm with subpeona power, he's a reporter with the power only to get the citizenry up in arms.

He's doing his job.

[SmileMaker]

14. Fisher - FBI has reported hackers rigging election

I haven't seen this posted yet at DU. If true, it appears to connect a lot of DU dots together. If not true, it will make one hell of a science fiction story.

http://www.jefffisherforcongress.com/Campaign2006/connectionvote.htm

I received all this information in my email from a friend!!! Take a look and put this into the public!!!!

"The FBI has now come and reported of machine owners disguised as election officials, and other hackers, rigging the elections. This is all tied and irreversably linked together. This is not a joke, the hackers know they are.



http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112504Madsen/112504madsen.html



http://www.securitytracker.com/alerts/2002/Dec/1005809.html
This has been linked to China....who has the most security holes, and who was also doing a field test run on a no bid Contract, back in July?



Diebold....



http://www.techdealmaker.com/020719/index.html



Schools were trained in this. Diebold and ES&S have known this for a long time. There are ties going back to Accenture Inc who creates the voter databases, and to Stryon Inc, Halcyon Inc, that go back numbers of years.



All are linked to CyberNet group. For a fact they always have been.



"Stryon (www.stryon.com ) has merged with Halcyon Software. The new company will focus on developing software that will help businesses move their older software, called legacy software, to newer operating environments. The merged company, retaining the name Stryon, is closely affiliated with The CyberNET Group, a global systems integration firm with operations throughout North America, Europe, South Africa, Asia, and Australia. CyberNET CEO Barton Watson comments, "The merger with Halcyon brings tremendous capabilities to Stryon" as it "can now provide a scope of application services never before available to middle market companies and enterprise accounts." Halcyon is a portfolio company of ChinaVest.(ChinaVest is one of the oldest and largest private equity firms exclusively targeting the rapidly growing Greater China market; China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. Since 1985, it has raised more than US$300 million and developed a balanced portfolio of more than 40 companies.)"



http://www.halcyonsoft.com/company.asp?s=4



http://www.netmaxsucks.com/mystory.html

They've done this for years. This isn't some random incident, they've been planning it, using students as guinea pigs for years. Jeff Fisher and their later breaking story are completely true. Either the owner of CyberCO Holdings killed himself because he couldn't take the pressure of the Saudi games anymore, or he just had flat out had enough of the workings of this corrupt firm. Anderson Consulting, which turned into Accenture Inc. has been around for over 10 years. It all fits in line with Mr. Fisher's story perfectly and the allegations of other senators. Voter Gate 2004. Period. "



Big news!!!!



ANGRY voter taking back democracy!!!
John S.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[witchhazl]

23. Bullsh*t meter rising

Sure, all of sudden Madsen's story all fits together with the Fisher conspiracy and it all makes sense.

I'm a newbie myself so I shouldn't throw stones. Still, anyone's freeper alert buzzer go off?

[flyarm]

30. re story : Fisher - FBI has reported hackers rigging election"

warning...many down here in fla dont give much creedance to jeff fisher or his story!!

[geo]

67. fbi reported to who?

Hi all,

Madsen's piece and Jeff Fisher's don't seem so compatible. Fisher's story originally claimed the vote was hacked through some school, not through poser field agents. What I just read made me lose even more faith (not that I was anywhere near brim) in Fisher's story.

Madsen's though seems to have a better footing, but healthy skepticism is the order of the day. :)

Warmly,

George

[Critical Thinker]

15. Ouch , that's gonna leave a mark !

from Bloggermann:

"I’d have to put Mr. Madsen’s story in the same category as the on-line report that I had been fired by MSNBC on November 12th for attempting to cover voting irregularities."

[texpatriot2004]

16. Olbermann is a TRUE journalist

Olbermann Rocks. He does it again, another crime fighter superhero smack down of information
being examined intelligently. Go Olbermann.:yourock:

[Minstrel Boy]

18. That's fine. He can be dismissive of the story, but

significantly, he relayed the story.

So he covers his ass by saying "this sounds like tinfoil," while at the same time spreading Madsen's report.

He didn't really do anything to debunk it.

[Ducks In A Row]

20. well that was before the update from Madsen, who...

should email a copy of that $29.6 Million check to Keith

[witchhazl]

21. Just thank God Olbermann is debunking us GENTLY.

We should not be going "public" (i.e., actively seeking to have this reported) with this story. Thank God only some 60 people emailed him, and he's probably being charitable. Also charitable in choosing to emphasize that these 60 aren't "sold" on it: "Each email has come with the same question: could this possibly be true?" And so kindly disposed toward our cause do I think Olbermann is, I believe he'll do us the favor of not reporting this on air.

This is the kind of story that, at least at this stage, can only hurt us. Olbermann is unfailingly sympathetic to our cause (exposing election fraud), but he actually devastatingly debunks this story. He just does it gently and with good humor. Try to imagine how his piece would sound in the hands of almost any other journalist.

(Yes, he does leave some room for the off-possibility that something in it could be true. As do I. Hope springs eternal. But at this stage of the game, it's incredibly foolish to push this story.)

I can't help but think that spreading stories like this and his "firing" are undermining what respect Olberrmann has for us.

PLEASE, let's take his warning to heart: "But in a time when serious investigations of what did or didn’t happen on November 2nd are vital to the sanctity of our voting process, reporting - in the mainstream media and on the internet alike - has to be solid and reasoned."

[noclonyofthechimp]

26. Excellent advise! At least everyone was investigating before going public

[juajen]

59. Welcome to DU, witchhazl

I do welcome you to DU, with a disclaimer. I find it ironic that "newbies" jump right in with opinions, using the "we" word. I must have had several hundred posts before I was comfortable with the "we" word here at DU, and felt safe expressing an opinion. Scepticism is rife here; we have many, many disrupters, usually heavily disguised. If you aren't one, I do apologize; however, I will remain a skeptic. It's healthier that way. A hint: Jumping in with two feet sometimes results in drowning.

[brindis_desala]

22. You're lucky Olbermann is on your side.

Notice that he did not mention DU as his source for this.
Come On people there are a lot of smart folks doing bang up work here. Be glad DU was let down easy. Next time all that hard earned credibility will be sunk. Caveat Emptor

[G_j]

25. DU was not the source

as far as I know, it was originally posted at:
http://www.onlinejournal.com

[IAMREALITY]

41. What are You Talking About?? LOL

LOL You crack me up.

We all know how this works, I didn't send the story to KO but so what if a couple of people did. We have forged a very warm relationship with Keith over the past weeks, but if you would've been here longer than a few days you would know more about that. He wouldn't trash DU, nor was there reason to. Not to mention KO and DU are not exclusive. I'm sure members of other Pro-Fraud sites have gotten their hands on the story too and forwarded it to him. Either way though he has gotten a ton of info from us, some legit, some tin-foil-hattish, but he wouldn't overly judge us anyway. He knows what we are fighting for and respects it, as we respect him.

From all the posts I've seen from you though there is at least one (if only one) thing I'll agree with you on:

"You're lucky Olbermann is on your side."
Damn right we are, and we thank him for it daily...

[juajen]

60. Welcome to DU, brindis_desala

What does that name mean, anyway? I welcome you with the same disclaimer as above. Hope you're around to stay.

[DaVinci_Codex]

27. Olbermann did no favors for democracy

I emailed Keith Olbermann on his -- let's face it folks --
debunking of Wayne Madsen's hypothesis, theory and money trail
investigation.

My email to Olbermann is below. I do not expect a reply. After
working in Media Relations and PR for many years, I know how
desperately one wants to say -- "Well gosh, ANY MEDIA
COVERAGE (even negative) is better than no coverage at
all."

But, you know what? It ain't true. Negative coverage is
negative coverage. Olbermann did not advance anyone's cause
here ... except maybe the power brokers labelling all of us
Tin-Foil-Hatters.

Subj: Re: Wayne Madsen's Update...
Date: 11/27/2004 2:22:48 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: XXXXX
To: [e-mail]

Dear Keith,

You're "the man" and are appreciated as one of the
few mainstream media types who does NOT use the term
"conspiracy whacko" immediately after mentioning
Election 2004 or VoterGate 04.

It looks like you wait a couple of days.

Regarding your latest blog item -- "November 27, 2004 |
12:43 p.m. ET Reportedly According to Apparently Informed
Sources (Keith Olbermann)" -- perhaps you need a little
more input from investigator Wayne Madsen, and some factual
course corrections, before trashing Madsen's theory as kinda
goofy.

It is anything but unsupported --

1. Wayne Madsen's UPDATE article posted Sat 11-27 on what you
called "... the most nefarious political plot in this
country’s history ..." makes hash of your primary
objections to Madsen's theory.

Specifically, you assumed that Madsen thinks the
"ringleaders" would let the perps
("operatives") in on details like financing, bank
accounts used to wash the moolah, total dollars budgeted for
the fraud, etc.

Your words --

>> If untold numbers of operatives really were
dispatched to polling places around the country to enact the
most nefarious political plot in this country’s history, why
would the ring-leaders reveal to any of them any of the
following:

-- The total amount spent on the plan (Madsen drops the $29
million dollar figure in the first sentence)?

-- The primary source of the carefully laundered cash (Madsen
sites “Five Star Trust”)?

-- The sources of “other money used to fund the election
rigging” (Madsen lists “siphoned Enron money stored away in
accounts in the Cook Islands”)? <<

Right you are, Keith. No self-respecting fraud ringleaders
would ever let grunt "wet workers" in on the
details. But then -- Wayne Madsen never claimed they would.
So, why would this be an adequate line of attack on Madsen's
thesis?

2. Read Madsen's follow-up piece today. He has a CANCELLED
CHECK. And a bank account trail.

Madsen never got that operational and financing stuff from the
grunts, either. He got it on his own, over years. Check out:

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112604Madsen/112604madsen.html

More on the buying of electoral fraud by the Bush campaign
By Wayne Madsen

3. Nor did Madsen throw this hypothesis together on a mass
media quickie deadline.

What did just come out was some of the grunt operatives
complaining and spilling a few beans around. They did not do
it from their sense of ethics or defense of democratic
processes; they complained because they got screwed out of all
their payoff money. (a far more believable human motive to
complain about being dollar screwed rather than vote screwed)

Nor did Madsen ever announce the stiffed grunts' complaints.
(You will find a news item on that at the Democratic
Underground posting site noted below.) Madsen simply chose
this timing to release what he has studied for years.

Yes, long-time investigator Madsen has a luxury that
beat-the-clock mass media mavens do not have.

4. You might be too busy, but if you read the Democratic
Underground task and message thread on this Madsen theory, you
will find backgrounder info on Madsen. He has been published
widely and authored a book on electronic privacy and security.

Unlike what you posted, Madsen is "a bit more" than
just an old Navy guy telling tales about the high seas.

You would also see numerous mentions of BCCI -- former banker
to weapons runners, Iran-Contra felons and -- ooops -- funders
of terrorism who were bitch-slapped by John Kerry in the
1990s. (Interesting that Prosecutor Kerry is the other guy in
this VoterGate 04 hijack, huh?)

BCCI is in the DU discussion thread on Madsen's article. It
appears repeatedly in Madsen's article. It was killed dead by
a US Senate Investigation Team headed by John Kerry. And all
the same tired old, unkillable dracula-like BCCI players show
up in VoterGate 04.

So, you are right, Keith -- Ringleaders of massive and illegal
voter fraud do NOT keep the wet-working grunts under them
informed of all details. Wayne Madsen never claimed that. You
did in attempting to discredit Wayne Madsen.

Here is the DU thread, if you have time:

Follow-Up Thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=81645&mesg_id=81645

First Throw Thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=78323&mesg_id=78323

Oh ... you also wrote:
>> But that has been the only such report of a “lock
down.” (OHIO TRAVESTY)

Madsen does not offer, nor has the media or even the internet
reported, any other examples - even unverified ones. <<

Sorry. Media have reported other polling place lock downs and
squirrely e-voting machine breakdowns that brought
"technicians" in during the course of the elections
and polling place or ballot-records-keeping place FIRES.
(plural) It just did not hit big time (ha) national media
outlets.

That Madsen did not do the local and regional news outlet
googling and list it in his articles does not mean there was
only one, as you claimed.

Oh Oh ... your lede paragraph ended with --

" ... seemingly everybody except the Visiting Nurse
Association of Skaneateles, New York."

Hmmm. Why mention the city of origin of DNC Chair Terry
McAuliffe?? Inside joke? Or to inspire tin-foil hatters?

Regards,
XXXXX
Veteran Media Watcher and PR Flack

[Stand and Fight]

35. Uh huh... Right.

Thank God that we do live in a democracy, so that you are able to express your opinion. Face it, Madsen's article was done justice on Olbermann's show. I, for one, would never have covered it with all the holes in the story -- it is just not the same stuff as the information of election day irregularities that we have discussed/discovered on here.

[IAMREALITY]

43. I just hope you didn't reference DU

Cause that is definitely farrrrrrrr from the truth as where the DU culture stands with him right now, and I would hate for him to think DU was turning on him even for a second, cause of some 3 post member who wasn't thinking straight...

...But then I guess KO is smart enough to throw out stupid emails into the same pile as the KO Fired and Madsen Stories hehehe.

[Paligal]

45. Why can't Madsen wait? Unprofessional

If the story is so credible, surely he would see that he should get ALL the corroborating evidence before going public with it. The article I read was filled with vagueries. Any journalist should know that more evidence is needed before you actually publish a story like that. Just my 2 cents. I am not stating that the story can't be true. Just that it is irresponsible not to get proof before running the story. I would love (LOVE) for this story to be true and to be proven. I would love to rub it in all the naysayers' faces. But at this point, it is not corroborated. So it does not benefit our cause. It makes people think we are crazy.

[DaVinci_Codex]

55. Madsen put holes in his public story, not in his head

There is too much hand-wringing on this thread.

Some is over whether or not Keith Olbermann still “loves”
DUers if anyone dares to question Great God Keith’s shallow
debunking of Wayne Madsen’s money-trail conspiracy hypothesis
on massive VoterGate fraud.

Hey, if Olbermann can not bear any inspection of his
journalistic or reporting skills, then SHAZAAM is he in the
wrong field! (Maybe selling aluminum siding or pre-paid phone
cards would preserve his fragile ego.) I know the VoterGate
story feels like an orphan media child; but some posters here
sound like desperate lovers afraid that Keith is going to take
the kids, the house and the boat out the door with his
affections. Ooooo.

The other hand-wringing seems to come from the laughable
contention that Wayne Madsen’s online articles “have holes in
them” or do not present his entire back-up and documentation
trail. That Madsen did not load in every piece of
investigative minutiae to back up every angle of his VoterGate
conspiracy charge. Therefore, he MUST be a tinfoil hat or we
and Keith Olbermann can discount his hypothesis as
“unsupported.” And continuing to pursue his follow-the-money
trail is just a waste of precious DU time and makes us look
“kooky.”

Hello?? If Wayne Madsen put enough in his online articles to
support everything he charged, I would consider him too stupid
to stay alive. (Nor would he remain alive very long.) Madsen
worked in National Security under Reagan. Definitely not in
his favor in the Human Being Sweepstakes. But high on the Not
Stupid Index.

So, you think Madsen is not only obligated but stupid enough
to puke up several years worth of documentation, digging and
evidence in an internet publication? So you can rest easy??
Sorry. You need to read some criminal prosecution files or
investigative journalism to see how it works. You do not vomit
your goods in public.

Let’s buck up here, people. If Keith Olbermann will brook no
criticism and has thin onion skin, then he would do better
working for Bush. (That is how George is, too.) And expecting
Madsen to satisfy all your evidence questions in a public
forum is childlike and naïve.

Let’s grow up and get some real work done.

[Minstrel Boy]

62. wonderful analysis

I heartily agree.

Welcome to DU, too.

[rosyhue]

66. Becasue He's Marketing It Via The Internet First

(atleast that's my take).
Say his story is true. It's huge. How does he market it?
He generates a buzz online & provides the internet community with ongoing updates. Would he divulge sources right off the bat? Of corse not. And whose to say they want to be outed right now anyway?

In spite of what "reputable journalists" who've posted here claim the US MSM has a worldwide rep for being gutless sheep who kiss the current admin's butt. (Not a personal attack on anyone in particular). Why would anyone go to the American media with a huge election fraud story without allowing it to gather momentum - over time - on the internet prior? Hellooooo....media heads were giggling right along with our president when he made his famous "joke" about not finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. They are hardly jumping at the opportunity to defame George whether "holes" exist in a story or not.

[anamandujano]

31. keith needs to keep his credibility

or all is lost. he is one of our very few friends. keyboard broken due to coffee bath. no caps for awhile.

[AuntiBush]

32. What a sudden change in past week...

oh I wonder why... hmmm.. could it be that he was on our side, then the big boss pulls plug on him. He did have a smeared rep, admitably. Forget him. Now, we have no one. That's the saddest part. Not 1 station or anchor is willing to speakout. $$$=sellout. ???=Democracy

[New Earth]

33. what are you talking about

just because Keith is skeptical about a report doesn't mean he's turned on us. wtfffffffffffffffffffffffff

[Rose Siding]

40. With no more to support Madsen's article than he had at the time...

KO did a very serious and well thought out piece on it *exactly* because so many who sent it to him asked "could this be true".

I find I agree with all the points he made, and many had occurred to me before I read KO's piece.

[stepnw1f]

34. Lot's of Low Posting Around Here

What's up? Freeper madness or?

[IAMREALITY]

44. I would totally agree step

Soooooooo Many low posters all of a sudden acting like they rule the world, know everything, and can preach to us as if we are children and they know better. Now they are in here acting like they want to turn us against KO??? I agree with ya, somethin stinks......

...Hopefully they are just premie posters that need to get their feet a little wetter first, rather than freepers that have invaded with bad intentions. Cause as we know, we'd always much rather have bad posters then freepers in lib clothing...

[rosyhue]

49. you'll probally get lots of new posters

since election fraud is on so many people's minds...

[IAMREALITY]

52. Absolutely!

And they are all welcome, such as you are! I am still somewhat new myself and have been grateful to this website.

Welcome to DU RosyHue!

:hi:

[rosyhue]

53. nice to meet you, too

and thank you all for providing the public with "coverage" on this interesting Madsen story.

[rosyhue]

54. thoughts on KO article

I'm not trashing KO so please don't mistake my tone - I dont want to be labeled a rude newbie troll...lol

Madsen provided specifics about the check/bank, though. Serial number, bank name and number. I don't think he is being a vague.

As for his sources...maybe they don't want to named just yet.

[IAMREALITY]

56. True

Thing is I don't think KO reported on the updated article yet though, or if he's even read it yet. His blog is only referencing the original article which was a bit vague, but of which we all hope will pan out somehow (no matter what the odds!)

[nashville_brook]

65. i beg your pardon

low poster -- but i am no freeper! i'm so glad DU is here! i think you/we are doing great work.

DU is also keeping me sane... :)

[Stand and Fight]

39. KO did the right thing.

Way to go Keith Olbermann -- I think he approached this story in a very liberal way by even discussing it at all. Let's face it -- put the article right DOWN there with Fisher's brand of so-called truth. It has too many holes and just smacks of kookiness. I admire and respect the O-man all the more because he truly is what Fox claims to be, "fair and balanced."

[Paligal]

42. Thank you!

Finally someone with sense. My post on the original thread asking people to be careful about just accepting unverified, incredible stories as fact, disappeared mysteriously (when I went back the next day, I couldn't find it. And another member complained of being called a "freeper" for debunking it).

When we spread stories that have no VERIFIABLE evidence, it just gives those trying to discredit us the ammunition to do so. Vagueries like "Informed sources" and ""reportedly" just make us look like crackpots trying to fabricate stories out of nothing. There is enough REAL evidence here: exit poll discrepancies, Volusia County, Warren County, Diebold's promise to Bush and their Republican ties. Let's focus on that stuff and quietly dig into any other possible stories until we can come up with some real proof to validate them.

[brindis_desala]

47. Well said.... and about spotting a troll

Some assume that low posts indicate disrupters jumping on board when it may simply mean the prudent assess before they leap. Suggestion to the wise: particularly beware those with a high rate of posts who have boisterous opinions but hide their basic profiles.

[TruthIsAll]

74. That is totally off-base. Just look at the facts, not the profile.

And the fact is, many of those who have few posts come on board to disrupt and debunk. Using strawmen and baseless arguments. We oldbies see this all the time.

So don't lecture us.

DUers, new and old, want to retain their anonymity. What's wrong with that?

Do you wish tell us about yourself and why you decided to start posting here?

[go west young man]

51. I think Keith Olberman has done a bang up job

on keeping this issue alive. The rest of the media has not even glanced at it. The most important election of our time. The direction of the world and it just gets swept under the rug. Then they actually decide to cover voting irregularities in the Ukraine. This whole thing is surreal. We live in one seriously screwed up country. I think Keith smells a rat like anyone with half a brain would. He is keeping the issue alive wheather you agree with him or not. I am a pretty new DUer and I would also ask those of us that are new "what the fuck?" are you trying to piss off the one person in the MSM that is an asset to us all?

[pointsoflight]

58. Keith got it wrong on one thing, though.

He says there was only one lockdown. That's not true. There's a whole thread about that here on DU where others have found media reports of other lockdowns, and some of them were purportedly due to terrorist threats.

I do agree with Olbermann, for the most part, that we can't put much creedence on Madsen's claims at this point. Doesn't mean there's nothing to what Madsen is saying, it's just that it's largely unsubstantiated at this point.

But just because it's unsubstantiated at this point, it doesn't mean that it's B.S. When an investigation is ongoing, it behooves you to keep some details to yourself, to hold some things back until further verification, and to protect your sources.

I suspect we'll know soon enough if this has legs.

[Emit]

63. Premie poster here...

Didn't know if you all were aware or whether this even matters to you, Madsen is often on FOX News. But, I've also read him on FTW site, Online Journal, etc.

KARL ROVE: THE KING OF DIRT
The Turd Blossom's Chickens May Come To Roost
By Wayne Madsen
(Special to From The Wilderness)
Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC-based investigative journalist, author, syndicated columnist, and a long-time advocate for privacy and civil liberties. He testified before Cynthia McKinney's hearing on the genocide in the DRC in May 2001 and has worked with Bob Barr on privacy legislation in the past.
He is the author of "Genocide and Covert Operations in Africa 1993-1999" (Mellen Press), "The Handbook of Personal Data Protection" (Macmillan, 1992), and "America's Nightmare: The Presidency of George Bush II" (Dandelion Books). He is a frequent commentator on national security issues on the Fox News Channel and has also appeared on The News Hour, ABC News, and 60 Minutes.
Madsen served as a U.S. Naval Officer from 1975 to 1985, his last duty station being the National Security Agency (NSA). He was awarded the Navy Achievement Medal, Meritorious Unit Commendation, and Navy Unit Commendation.
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/120503_rove.html

[flyarm]

72. he also worked for reagan!! n/t

[newyawker99]

75. Hi Emit!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Patsy Stone]

70. Perry Mason

is the only place I've ever seen a smoking gun which is labeled: The Smoking Gun.

Skeptical, I am skeptical, to say the least.

I see nothing wrong with quietly checking this out. Let's not embarass ourselves by screaming this out loud to the MSM. I would keep this on the DL. I also agree the foreign press could be very helpful. They have a "vested interest" as well. :)

It was nice of Keith to respond on a Saturday. Shows us he cares. Also probably shows us he doesn't want a bunch of screaming e-mails.

In general, I would suggest a simple "Does this seem like something to check out?" sort of request instead of "OMG THIS IS IT!!!" kinda tones.

My $0.02

[jamboi]

77. I don't know if KO knows about the other lockdowns. Did anyone send it?n/t

[Wordie]

61. Hooray for Keith! He is an EXCELLENT journalist.

These unsubstantiated stories can do a lot of damage to the efforts to expose the REAL illegitimacies that are provable. Not to mention, the unsubstantiated reports, and efforts to explore them further, siphon off the energies that could otherwise be spent writing letters to government officials and newspaper editors, supporting efforts to halt unverified e-voting, etc.

[Shopaholic]

68. Agreed. I honestly believe that there was fraud in this election too

but I found Madsen's reports to be without proof. I'm sorry for those of you who believe his story but I'm afraid that stuff like this hurts our cause rather than advances it. And I thought KO's column was great and got to the heart of the problem with Madsen's "reporting".

[jbnow]

73. it's fine for Madsen to be without proof right now

We can still listen, offer information. We hope that if it is true it can be proven and all stay safe.

It would be silly to just believe because we want to. Any of us could make a great story and offer vague validation. I am not saying it is made up, but nothing is proven.

Madsen knows if he is on to something and bless his heart, we don't have such connections. By coming out with the story...though that seems dangerous, perhaps it would draw more informers that would be able to tell he really has an idea what is going on and that others are telling to. Even if people got truth it would have to make some people really sick and they want a better country too.

We have no reasdon to disbelieve either just because it sounds odd and big. As Keith notes...it happens.

Sometimes people make up stories, sometimes truth is stranger then fiction. We all want the truth. I liked keityhs article. he didn't rule it out, he raised his reasons for doubt. That's just fine. Madsen may have reasons not to adress them now and that is fine.

The truth counts. May it be revealed.

Oh...I just read somewhere perhaps newbies shouldn't say "we" or offer opinions. I probably have since my first post. Apologies to those offended, but we are all we, in this together, hungry for truth in elections, in our government.

[Carolab]

69. Has anyone sent Madsen's update to KO?

His blog indicates that he has not seen it.

[jamboi]

76. Yes, I did. He's definitely seen it, but has not commented since he wrote

to WM, so we shall see. My hunch is he'll just be quiet about it awaiting further developments.