When Bushco finally shuts DU down - what then?

[Chimpanzee]

I had this nightmare last night that I went to check DU and it wasn't there. And it never was there again. It was because Bushole put the 'fear of God' into any ISP that hosted a website deemed to be a threat to the reich.

Now I'm thinking - would this be possible? Is this in their plans? What would we do when we had no way of communicating?

It's a scary thought, but would seemingly be the final nail in our democracy, which Bushole seems to want badly.

[teach1st]

1. At this point...

...the Internet houses BushCo's most effective and persistent opposition. They've got to be at least considering doing something about that.

[knowbody0]

2. not just DU but the internet

[rlev1223]

84. All the internets n/t

[madmax]

3. I believe

Skinner, Earl G and Elad will kick his ass. :evilgrin:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

8. No...

All ass-kicking is referred to Skittles. Let us be clear on that point. ;-)

[madmax]

25. ooops my bad

:P

[Placebo]

4. Don't worry, it's not going to happen.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. I hope not

[righteous1]

6. Aint gonna happen, no way no how

BTW maybe it's time you took a short vacation, paranoia tends to cloud ones rational thought processes

[Chimpanzee]

23. Paranoia is one of my strong suits. Wht do you think I love this site?

[Robbien]

31. Paranoids are people who may just know more than the average person

If one knows anything about this BFEE cabal, anything is possible.

[foo_bar]

58. paranoia is useful, but it's a product of knowing less

Fear of the dark comes from insufficient sensation, fears of black helicopters and such usually accompany a secluded lifestyle. It's all good, I'd rather be surrounded with Chicken Littles than Little Bo Peeps.

[Hippo_Tron]

75. Paranoia is good, it keeps us on our toes...

I don't agree that * is planning to shut down this site because

1) I don't think that he can

2) Because we aren't enough of a threat to him

But it's better to be worried than not to be worried.

[blm]

7. I think Skinner said we can all come over to his place.

Bring your own blanket.

[seabeyond]

82. that was funny blm,........................n/t

[212demop]

85. Is Skinner's first name Walter?

Bald guy? Attractive?

:)

[fugue]

9. I forget who said this, but . . .

Someone said that a fascist would be a fool to destroy the appearance of democracy. If DU and other liberal sites suddenly disappeared--or the internet went back to being just government--the appearance of democracy would be exploded.

[Chimpanzee]

62. Did Hitler or Mussolini care abou apperance of democracy?

[fugue]

70. That was rather the speaker's point

He didn't consider Hitler and Mussolini smart fascists. After all, they went down very spectacularly.

Most people accept an appearance as reality. As long as you maintain the appearance of a democracy, they'll believe it is one, no matter how bad it gets. People only rally and resist when they perceive a threat. The neocons have dramatically reduced the opposition against them by maintaining the appearance of a democracy.

Part of the concern about the election is that the more psychologically savvy Americans are aware that it's better for dictators to hold an "election" but mangle the results than to just declare themselves dictators for life. Many who would have picked up a gun if they had canceled the election will buy the mangled results.

Another case in point: In the late eighties the Economist did a study of freedom of speech around the world. The United States had the best laws guaranteeing it, but it had the least actual freedom of speech outside of totalitarian states. Americans are completely ignorant of this. They point to the First Amendment and continue to accept being silenced.

Sadly, it's appearances that people act on, not realities. It's only when you make the reality the appearance that you get action.

[Chimpanzee]

74. I understand what you're saying

but what happens when the people start realizing they've been had? The answer is that the government gives up the guise of democracy and cracks down on dissent. People seem to forget that the only reason we are not all speaking German now is that the US got involved in the war before Hitler could get the atomic bomb. Well, if the US goes the way of Germany, who will be strong enough to help us defeat the fascists as the US did in WWII?

Just think about it...

[fugue]

79. They've got the atomic bomb of the 21st century: US debt

Call in our debt, the US economy collapses, and Bush is done.

[Chimpanzee]

80. And so does the world economy

which is one reason I'm not sure this will happen, but it certainly could.

[Hippo_Tron]

77. Mussolini went down easily, Hitler was another story...

Hitler pretty much considered Mussolini a clown. His own people wound up rebelling against his government and joining the allies. Hitler, on the other hand, was able to control his own country and had he not made so many military blunders, perhaps conquer the world.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

10. All of us who have been quietly blogging......

Will be in the streets - see: Ukraine Election :evilgrin:

How will bushie handle that?:scared: ?

Jee, I hope so!

}(

[LiberalAndProud]

22. Those of us who have been quietly blogging ...

would also have no clue that our ELECTION WAS HACKED.

vive le internet!

[cynthia]

37. Let's get out there

I think we should follow the Ukrainian's lead and take to the streets.

It would be awesome if we could BE the media and create a nationwide media event, taking it to the streets and demanding integrity in our elections.

How about it?

[democracyindanger]

11. Carrier pigeons.

Lots and lots of carrier pigeons.

[rosyhue]

12. lol

there you go.
And rats. Big, sneaky ones from Brooklyn.

[havocmom]

19. And learn Morse Code quick! Might look into old fashioned Ham Radios

too!

We had a shutdown of all telephone transmissions a few days ago. This is a very remote part of the country, not really any radio stations get through. You cannot imagine the panic I was fighting as I wondered if it was just this area or if it was something going on nationwide. TV was working, but then cable/satellite tv broadcasters are so good about staying with the party line, I almost took that as a bad sign. No one could get a cell phone signal, no land lines, no internet.

For 4 hours or better, I was pretty worried about what might be happening to all of you evilDUers out there in urban areas.

[bunny planet]

39. or Hedwig the Owl

[Cadence]

42. Or post-its on Frisbees.

Any du'er's in throwing range? :)

[hootinholler]

47. Funny you should mention that...

Check out RFC1149 and ammendment RFC2549 both dealing with IP via avian carriers...


Network Working Group D. Waitzman
Request for Comments: 1149 BBN STC
1 April 1990

A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers

Status of this Memo

This memo describes an experimental method for the encapsulation of
IP datagrams in avian carriers. This specification is primarily
useful in Metropolitan Area Networks. This is an experimental, not
recommended standard. Distribution of this memo is unlimited.

Overview and Rational

Avian carriers can provide high delay, low throughput, and low
altitude service. The connection topology is limited to a single
point-to-point path for each carrier, used with standard carriers,
but many carriers can be used without significant interference with
each other, outside of early spring. This is because of the 3D ether
space available to the carriers, in contrast to the 1D ether used by
IEEE802.3. The carriers have an intrinsic collision avoidance
system, which increases availability. Unlike some network
technologies, such as packet radio, communication is not limited to
line-of-sight distance. Connection oriented service is available in
some cities, usually based upon a central hub topology.

...

[man4allcats]

13. I believe that would be grounds for armed revolt.

I have to admit, I am still quite fond of my .38 revolver. A word of caution though, never drink Jack Daniels and play with a loaded Colt - trust me on this one. ;-)

[IAMREALITY]

17. ?

"A word of caution though, never drink Jack Daniels and play with a loaded Colt"

Ummmm why would we. I doubt anyone at DU is that stupid or reckless.

[man4allcats]

32. Just cut those erasers off your pencils.

I'm sure you won't need them anymore. Another tip - you might check in at the humor store. I here they have a sale on.

[IAMREALITY]

34. Actually I'm as witty as any, and Kinda said it half seriously

But the fact is, some things just simply ain't funny.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[man4allcats]

81. Well okay, let's try this...

Your original reply, which is to say your original message, sounded to me rather self-righteous in its tone. I did not find that reply, which is to say that message, either constructive, courteous or witty. I would say more, but the last time I attempted this reply in what I thought was an entirely reasonable manner, the message got deleted. That being the case, I guess I will have to content myself with this rather watered-down version of my message in the hope that it will survive.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

14. China tried to shut down the internets, and failed

And they're better at that kind of stuff than our idiots are.

[Mirwib]

38. No, if there is one thing that the war in Afghanistand and Iraq

has shown, is that our idiots are definitely more competent than any other collection of idiots in the world.

[imenja]

15. Get a grip

they couldn't shut down the internet if they wanted to. The government isn't all powerful. If nothing else, watching this fiasco of a war in Iraq should show you that. Websites can always base themselves out of the country. It works for spammers and pornographers.

Also, why would Bush need to shut down DU?
It's not like the radical web kept him from being re-elected.

There is another point here: by assuming everything is a Republican conspiracy, that you are powerless to affect any change, you play into their hands. Defeatism discourages action. We need to work to bring about change.

People wonder why there is outrage over the Ukrainian elections and not our own. If Americans had taken to the streets in comparable numbers to the Ukrainian protests, our elections would have to be investigated.

I'm sorry if I am overly harsh in my statements here. I believe strongly that this sort of thinking does the progressive movement more harm that good.

[righteous1]

18. Well said n/t

[Chimpanzee]

45. Harsh statements don't bother me

But your misinformation does. First never in this thread did I say anyone would shut down the internet. Secondly, If this country is to be saved, it will probably be websites like DU that will have a lot to do with it. Thirdly, who said I assumed everything is a republican conspriacy. Defeatism? The very point of this thread was to discuss this possibility so we may find way's to take preventative action.

So excuse my harsh words, but maybe you should 'get a grip'.

[imenja]

46. so how do they shut down DU if the internet is still working?

New sites can and are formed at any time, from anywhere. If DU was shut down it could easily reconstitute itself, even if under another name. Moreover, the incompetence of the government is manifest. If they can't find Osama and end an insurgency in Iraq, how are they going to end leftist blogs?

And what makes you think they even care about this particular blog? There is a leftist press that has thrived in this country for decades--The Nation, Monthly Review, the Progressive, Mother Jones, etc..--and those publications actually present intelligent critiques of the government. Bush hasn't censored them. He doesn't need to when conservative ideas are more widely disseminated through the broadcast media. Paranoid ideas like yours hardly represent a threat to their power. If anything, they contribute to the power of the right by making the left seem delusional.

In terms of taking action, I'd suggest trying something that will accomplish a goal--an issue that is important to you: voting reform, the environment, whatever it may be.

[Donailin]

54. Again, you need to think outside the box

>>If they can't find Osama and end an insurgency in Iraq, how are they going to end leftist blogs? <<

there is no real effort to find Osama, Pakistan is our ally and the complicated history of India/Pakistan and US is worthy of at least ten separate threads. The goal was never to find Osama, the goal was to reconstitute the military industrial complex. Mission accomplished!We needed Osama for that.

>>And what makes you think they even care about this particular blog? There is a leftist press that has thrived in this country for decades--The Nation, Monthly Review, the Progressive, Mother Jones, etc..--and those publications actually present intelligent critiques of the government. Bush hasn't censored them. <<

And yet, he has. Censorship comes when it suits a particular purpose. I'm not saying that DU will be censored, but it would be foolish to say that they wouldn't if they felt threatened, or if their interests were seriously threatened

>He doesn't need to when conservative ideas are more widely disseminated through the broadcast media. Paranoid ideas like yours hardly represent a threat to their power. If anything, they contribute to the power of the right by making the left seem delusional. <<

Well there you go. Don't worry about anything, they will never be able to get away with what they plan on doing next time. Now who's delusional?

>>In terms of taking action, I'd suggest trying something that will accomplish a goal--an issue that is important to you: voting reform, the environment, whatever it may be. <<

Preaching to the choir

[Donailin]

53. Gripping the facts. .

>>they couldn't shut down the internet if they wanted to. <<

No, they shut down servers.

>>The government isn't all powerful. <<

Not all but close

>>If nothing else, watching this fiasco of a war in Iraq should show you that. Websites can always base themselves out of the country. <<

And the FBI can and has shut them down in other countries.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/oct2004/inte-o13.shtm...

>>It works for spammers and pornographers.<<

The gummint isn't worried about pornographers keeping them out of office, in fact pornography keeps the intellect from functioning properly. Keep the masses addicted to anything but the truth.

<<Also, why would Bush need to shut down DU?
It's not like the radical web kept him from being re-elected. <<

But the radical web can expose him.

>>There is another point here: by assuming everything is a Republican conspiracy, that you are powerless to affect any change, you play into their hands. Defeatism discourages action. We need to work to bring about change. <<

No disagreement there. Organize! Be downtown DC on January 20th. There's a 'turn your back on Bush' movement that is organizing.


>>People wonder why there is outrage over the Ukrainian elections and not our own. If Americans had taken to the streets in comparable numbers to the Ukrainian protests, our elections would have to be investigated. <<

People in the Ukraine have a very different experience of democracy--if you can call it that -- than we do. You have to remember that they have only been independant from the SU for ten or so years. We Americans are spoiled, they are not. Ukranians have first hand experience and clear memories of Fascism, Communism, and tyranny, they remember exactly what it looks like. They are not a consumer driven capitalistic society like here. We do not recall such experiences because we don't have them. The Communist Party disquised as the Russian "right" wing is still clumsily trying to emulate the American Democratic system, but we are much more subliminal in method.

>>I'm sorry if I am overly harsh in my statements here. I believe strongly that this sort of thinking does the progressive movement more harm that good. <<

In order to defeat the enemy, you have to be a step ahead of them. Ask Rove.

[imenja]

56. How does this help defeat the enemy?

So you think they are going to take down all the leftist websites. Apparently the Nation, despite 100 years of publication, and Monthly Review are finished, censored beyond meaning (you better tell Katrina Vanden Heuvel). What are you going to do about it? If the government controls nearly everything, as you say, what can be done?
By the way, Ashcroft's number one priority when he first came to office was pornography--not terrorism, as it should have been, but pornography. I still get dozens of pornographic spam messages every day. I guess that's part of the Republican takeover as well.

[Donailin]

59. Try to stay on topic

>>So you think they are going to take down all the leftist websites. <<

Never said that, reread the post.

>>Apparently the Nation, despite 100 years of publication, and Monthly Review are finished, censored beyond meaning (you better tell Katrina Vanden Heuvel).<<

non sequitur

>> What are you going to do about it? If the government controls nearly everything, as you say, what can be done?<<

Never said that. Please read for comprehension next time.

>>By the way, Ashcroft's number one priority when he first came to office was pornography--not terrorism, as it should have been, but pornography. <<

He busted all of what? 32 Child porn sites? It keeps the moral majority happy.

>>I still get dozens of pornographic spam messages every day. I guess that's part of the Republican takeover as well. <<

No, it merely proves my point. Our little war on pornography, just like our war on poverty and drugs and terrorism always ends up giving us more of the thing we are warring against. But that is neither here nor there. The point is, and try to read carefully, that this administration will do anything necessary to stifle any dissent that SERIOUSLY threatens their power -- you know, like manipulating the vote. If that means shutting down servers that promote anti Amerikan speech and activity, then do not put it past them and make a plan just in case. See post #27.

[imenja]

72. Are you able to answer the question

Since you accuse me of misunderstanding your post, I am pasting it here:

>>they couldn't shut down the INTERNET if they wanted to. <<

No, they shut down servers.

>>The government isn't all powerful. <<

Not all but close


I repeat mine, and I would like to know if you are able to answer:

Let's presume you are right, everything you have said is true, what do you propose to do about it? How is posting this sort of thing helping prevent the all (correction, close to all) powerful government takeover?

[Chimpanzee]

76. imenja

reread my original post. I was opening this as a point of discussion by asking:

'When Bushco finally shuts DU down - what then?'

I was trying to be proactive and preemptive to a possibility that you yourself finally admitted is possible. Why can't you see that? You've accused me of being negative, defeatist, etc., when I'm trying to be just the opposite! :wtf:

[Chimpanzee]

63. Do you study history at all?

You are a very optimistic person when it comes to trusting Bushole to play nice. I think you need to open your mind a bit to the real possibilities. I never said they would shutdown DU, but they certainly could. They could round up skinner, et al, and we would be cut off permanently. Sure someone else could start up a similar site but the government could easily confiscate the 'www.democraticunderground.com' domain so we would all be starting from scratch. If pro-democracy sites like this become too troublesome (60,000 members now, but what if there are 10 million?) they have the means, technically and legally, to shutdown servers and domains that they feel threatened by. If you don't beleve me, consult a specialist.

And on edit... how many website owners will be 'disapperared' before others become too afraid to start another one up??????

[imenja]

71. actually I do study history

I'm a professional historian with a PhD. I teach and write history every day.
And what thing one learns as a historian, is that the state has limited autonomy. The capitalist era has been characterized by a growth of state power, and a state that increasingly tries to control more aspects of society. But it's ability to do that is constrained by practicality and in a representative government--influence exerted by the people, though it can be an uphill battle to be sure.
In this country, government crackdowns on the left have typically focuses on labor leaders and communist party members. And in the 1950s, a number of universities were purged. Today, those that face the greatest threat from government are Arabic nationalists and critics of US policy toward Israel.
The alternative press, and in this for sake of argument I will include blogs, provides an outlet for radical speech , as does the academic world. For the most part, however, it mounts speech alone and little action, which is a problem in regard to political change but suits the interests of powerful because little is ultimately done to challenge their authority. Alternative speech lends credibility to capitalist democracy and is thus part of the system rather than a threat.
What your posts reveal is an inflated sense of your own importance. Posting some messages on the web--particularly paranoid ones--is not a threat to Bush's power. Certainly they could shut down DU if they wanted to mount a national security argument, but why would they even care? Do you really think you have that much influence? If you want to pose a threat to the government, do something besides typing on a computer.
My optimism is not in regard to the Bush administration. My optimism lies with the American people, who have the power to challenge tyranny, provided we take action.

[Chimpanzee]

73. I don't understand how you can have such tunnel vision

Now, you admit that they 'could shut down DU if they wanted'. I'm glad you confessed that you do not have a phd in Computer Science. You just keep thinking those good thoughts. Oh, and thanks for the history lesson. Ever study the rise of the 3rd Reich? Do you really think history never repeats itself?

[imenja]

do you want a Third Reich?

Hitler rose with support from the German people. They, like we, have the power to power to resist authoritarianism.
Of course they could shut down any particular website, but it could always be reconstituted somewhere else.
Please tell me how you are being proactive. If what you say is true, what should be done to stop it? If the government controls everything, how can we achieve anything?

[imenja]

93. do you want a Third Reich?

Hitler rose with support from the German people. They, like we, have the power to power to resist authoritarianism.
Of course they could shut down any particular website, but it could always be reconstituted somewhere else.
Please tell me how you are being proactive. If what you say is true, what should be done to stop it? If the government controls everything, how can we achieve anything?

[imenja]

94. Explain how you are being proactive

If what you say is true, if the government is all powerful, what can we do to stop it?

[IAMREALITY]

16. But he already has....

BushCo has ALREADY shut down alllllll the other internets... All of them! I swear! There's only ONE LEFT NOW! Just this one. This lastttt singgggle INTERNET!!

[Chasing Dreams]

20. that was great

:toast:

[Chimpanzee]

21. We have to save it! It's the only one we have left!!

I know everyone is making fun of me, but I know alot about computers and I tell you they could do it if they wanted to. Not shutting down the internet, but specific 'unfriendly' sites.

[IAMREALITY]

24. Actually Chimp

I wasn't makin fun of ya for the record, it was my stab at levity and an opportune moment/topic hehe.

I wouldn't fear though, the web is far too powerful for them to shut down. They could shut down DU today and we'd be loggin onto DU-The Return, tomorrow

[Chimpanzee]

43. I appreciate your sentiments

But the BFEE is more powerful than most people realize. After Partiot Act II is passed the DU owners could just disappear and the website permanently shut down by the FBI and homeland security as a subversive threat to the homeland. Yes, this is a the fascist state.

[Historic NY]

26. I've heard rumors on the internets!!!!

There will be no rumors, I am * and I approve this message.

[Liberty Belle]

27. moderator here should get faxes, phones (privately) now

Then if that happens, we could hold meetings locally, Meet-Up style, coordinated nationally via phone conferences. Committees formed here, such as the one looking into voting irregularities, could keep in contact off-line via old-fashioned methods such as phone calling trees.

[trueblueliberal]

55. This is a very good idea

even if this site got shut down only temporarily (few days or weeks), for whatever reason, we could still stay in touch with each other. Moderator?

[Chimpanzee]

64. I would agree, but we also have to consider that any lists

would be confiscated by the feds to use at their pleasure.

[Pooka Fey]

86. This possibility occurred to me a while ago.

And even if we win this thing, Bush and the Corporate Beast aren't going to die that easily. Maybe it would be a good, proactive idea to start local DU groups that meet up locally. We could post local group get-together meetings here; and start building a real underground. Just a thought. Plus it would be fun.:bounce:

[dewaldd]

28. We can always buy our own server.

[junefl]

29. Take offensive instead being defensive

The thought of being prosecuted and being victimized makes us on the defensive. We should not feel this way. We will not feel powerless just because some guy stole the election and tried to steal this country.
Freedom is our sacred right. Freedom on the Internet is our right. While Bush and his party tampered with election results, there are millions of people who are still speaking out for the truth. Our judges are still handing down decisions that protest civil rights. Public radios are still discussing prisoners' abuse in this country. I have seen many encouraging signs.
We will not allow anyone to shut down our voice, our Internet, and our inch away our freedom.
Be ready, fight, and do not be afraid.

[demodonkey]

30. Too much money is being made on the Internets to shut them down...

a lot of this money is going to Bushco and his pals. If he shut this off he would risk alienating too many of his big-time business buddies.

[Donailin]

51. he has the carlyle group, he can do without the dems on the internet

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm

watch this video and try and pass it on if it hasn't already. This is the biggest unreported story so far. The mother of all conflicts of interests.

[Chimpanzee]

65. This thread is about preemption, not retreat.

Yes, freedom is our right, but so is fair elections. Oh, and FoxNews is 'fair and balanced'. The Powers That Be can do what they want as long as they have the power. Why do you think we are fighting so hard for free elections?

'We will not allow anyone to shut down our voice, our Internet, and our inch away our freedom.' - right :eyes:

[AnIndependentTexan]

33. If the internet goes then the YOUTH will rise up in massive numbers

You forget how many youths use the internet to commicate with their friends and do homework assignments. If they take it out then all heck would break lose and the new hippie generation will have been started for sure.

[NVMojo]

35. we must be on here too much cuz I had a dream last night that

Bushco showed up at my house and interrogated my new puppy about her work on "voter fraud" on DU. And I was sober last night ...

[SmokingJacket]

36. I guarantee they've put a lot of thought into what they can do to make

sure the internet doesn't threaten them. If they do anything, I bet it will be something along the lines of making people pay for it. Somehow. Or trying to regulate it: give themselves more freedom to shut down "insurgent" sites.

It might be impossible to just shut it down. But there are a lot of ways of making it less free.

[Chimpanzee]

66. Take away the domain name and confiscate the servers.

Easy as pie.

[gorbal]

40. Reminds me....

Of a mightmare I had once:

It was a eerily smoggy day and I was watching tv. In one moment everything went black. I sat for a few momements, stunned. When I tried to stand up, words flashed on the screen, even though the power was still out and the tv was not, in fact, on. I don't rememeber exactly what it said, but it was something like "Stay where you are, if you leave the house we will kill you, if you try to call anyone, we will kill you, there is nothing you can do"

I kinda enjoy my scary dreams lol!

[peacetalksforall]

41. If they shut down the internet how could they mine it for terrorists?

1. They must not have used the internet to watch stock and put-options in the days before 9-11 because they failed miserably in putting out warnings, plus, they failed in their post 9-11 investigation (if they had one).

2. They need the internet to compile an enemies list and track enemy movements. They can't just tap all those phones.

3. The more money they save by having little elves watch the internet, the more they will have for payola - terrorist partners, leader buy-outs, and bigger toys.

4. The budgets of Washington would jump to revert.

5. There aren't enought dumps for all the auxiliary equipment.


I sure could use an education about whether they can close down providers. On the other hand, don't you think AOL is already spying for them = it must prove beneficial for them to be allowed to exist. It might come to the choice of three mega ones - all partners with the right wing. I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Chimpanzee]

44. I'm not talking about shutting down the internet!

[AgadorSparticus]

48. this is crazy talk. they will never shut down the internet. too much

money and too many industries are connected to cyberspace.

as much as they hate the people, they know where their bread is buttered. corporate masters work the internet, need the internet, make money off the internet. it will be around. i have one of the best tin foil hats around. this doesn't even come close to making the cut. :shrug:

[Donailin]

50. they most certainly can

shut down servers. It was only recently that they shut down English Al Jezeera and Indymedia in the UK.

And don't think this isn't stuck in some bill that hasn't gotten passed yet.

Do a simple google search :"house bill censor internet"

[AgadorSparticus]

52. i'm not saying that they can't do it. i'm saying that they won't do it.

there is too much money involved and economically, i don't think we can take any punches.

[AgadorSparticus]

61. sorry. misunderstood the original post. thought it was about

taking out internet access altogether as was discussed in some post a while back.

as for shutting this site down, yea...i can see it happening. but by then, i'm more worried about them rounding up people due to "homeland security".

[Donailin]

49. Yes, it is possible

<<Now I'm thinking - would this be possible? Is this in their plans? What would we do when we had no way of communicating?>>

Yes, yes, and pigeons.

[trueblueliberal]

57. It is quite possible that this site could be shut down

and it's a good idea to be prepared for that possiblility. Post #27 offered a possible suggestion.

[stirringstill]

60. Possible

I don't think this is a silly post in the least. I too have fears along these lines. China, IRAN, Saudi Arabia filter foreign content allowed in their country. I'm not certain precisely how they they accomplish this little feat but other countries do this. Since there are only a few hi-speed access providers, it is also possible to pressure these companies.

[wrate]

67. * would never shutdown DU, he probably loves it.

Americans come here to express their hatred and frustration toward him and his policies and by doing so this place is like a pressure cook's valve which lets out the steam. Without this kind of sites where people can release their anger, maybe they would then take out to the streets to protest like they did in the Ukraine :)

Seriously, its the reason why "Public Opinion" is so popular, because it supposedly gives a voice to the people and a way to let out their frustration with the "system" without things getting violent.

[Monkie]

68. Funny you mention this now i have somewhere to dump a link

someone who works in the mainstream media (claims to be white house press corps) has been leaking info to a website for over a year.
since the election that website has increased the frequency of this posts to twice a week and the tone has gotten scarier and scarier.
the archive has all the previous stories.
the website is www.tbrnews.org

some interesting quotes:
November 26, 2004
http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1219.htm
"His last speech to the UN was not greeted with boos but the media had to put in taped applause on their film of the speech because no one applauded Bush as a token of their dislike of him and his policies"

November 22, 2004
http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1213.htm
"I have said it before and I will say it now:

There will be a universal draft.

There will be another major war in Iran with serious military threats directed towards both Russia and North Korea.

Bush and his people will clamp down completely on any form of dissent inside the United States to include shutting off any American access to the Internet that they all view with loathing and fear."

November 12, 2004:
http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1195.htm
“ The aftermath of the Bush win is that it has been mutually decided between the White House, its corporate allies and the media that there will be absolutely no substantive talk about any stolen votes. Were votes stolen? Believe it. Rove and his boys bought votes and defective machines by the container ship full but since Kerry folded early, the issue is, as far as Rove is concerned, a dead one"

and it just goes on and on..article after article over a years worth.
even if you dont believe all its interesting to say the least

[googly]

78. Bush** is probably a lurker here and is on when in Camp David LOL

[Chasing Dreams]

83. There are definitely people at "Freerepublic" who want to shut

DU down.

I'm posting this Freeper thread from Nov 11, which starts with a letter to Ridge. Please refrain from reading on a full stomach...:puke:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1277764/posts

If this offends too many here, I'll take the link down. But it is usually wise to know what the other side is saying, thinking, planning. They are linking to DU.

[Chimpanzee]

87. ROTFLMAO! n/t

[Pooka Fey]

88. Wow.

[Triana]

89. The next thing they'll seek to control just like the Media...

...will be the Internet. They do it in China. They'll do it here. They absolutely CANNOT have open discussion, exchange of ideas, and dissent. They'll shut it down.

[3 DanO]

90. It might be the best thing for democracy.

Putting all the discussion in one proverbial basket is both risky in terms of dropping the basket and less effective in terms of exploring ideas. Spread out on the internet like a neural network. Discuss and filter ideas in small boards then spread the surviving ideas to other boards. The propagation of a single thought will be slowed down but the bandwidth will be unbounded.

[mirrera]

91. Back to practicality

How do we find one another if the internet is shut down? I have often said that I think it will happen, and that is why it is so urgent to dethrone this guy. I have been lulled into opyimism by the fact that big business makes alot of money from the internet. BUT we are seeing the same kind of merging of ISPs into big corporate portals. I forsee a time when just like the people who rely on MSM and do not know there are any problems with this election, but instead are shaking their heads about the Ukrain and cooing over Julia Robert's twins, there will be a time when most people use these big service providers, and click a link called news which feeds them the same pablum.
That said, I think it is very important for people to make plans about how to communicate. At least KNOW who your friends are.

[mirrera]

92. Sorry! Spell check next time for sure...n/t