Where's Michael Moore?!?!?! Just heard filmaker who's with Bev saying

[Sperk]

that he wants to do a 9/11 type film on the 2004 election but he needs help. The story is too big for him alone. What in God's name is going on with everyone?!?!?

Michael Moore...silence
John Kerry.....silence
Bill Clinton....silence
Al Gore.......silence
so on and so forth...

sounds like the story in Ohio is getting bigger and bigger......why are our guys so quiet (Jessie Jackson being the exception)

:shrug:

doesn't seem logical to me.

:shrug:

Are any DUers going to Ohio on Dec 4th for the rally?

[Jo March]

1. I really want to go but I'm in NC

So it will take a bit of coordinating for me. :)

[brainshrub]

4. You want a ride?

I'm in Asheville.

Allllll Aboard!!!!!!

[freedom for all]

10. what rally you going to???

and when...I need a ride...

[brainshrub]

17. You tell me.

Cincinnati, OH is about 6-7 hours away. I'd like to keep the drive-time to under 10 hours one-way.

We can arrange the details right here, or PM me. If I don't reply immediately, it's because I plan to head to bed within the next 30 minutes. I will reply.

[freedom for all]

28. Which rally?

I live in Johnson City, Tn...so it might be on your way to ohio...
1 day trip or 2 day trip ? I'll check days and time for rallies.

[brainshrub]

37. You do that.

Just let me know. I don't want to plan it, I just want to drive. Please, please PLEASE don't make me drive far out of my way. I don't want to be a wet-blanket, but I do have a job I want to get back to.

Let's say we leave Friday, get back Saturday night.

[Jo March]

11. Are you serious?!? That would be cool - I love Asheville, BTW

Saw Over the Rhine there in October at Stella Blue's and saw the Indigo Girls there in August at the Biltmore. I felt right at home the whole time.

I really want to go to this. I have been waiting to march.

[brainshrub]

23. Read post #17.

I have a perfect driving record, a Honda CR-V, a GPS system, free time and a tent. I'll share everything but the tent.

[Jo March]

27. Can I PM you after I discuss it with Mr. Arnheim?

He will be here to watch the kids, after all. ;)

You are awesome! Thank you! Thank you!

[brainshrub]

32. I can take three people. PM me when you know.

[YellowDoginthehouse]

36. Anybody in AZ?

anyone in AZ going to OH?

[Jo March]

74. brainshrub, if I can go, hubby wants to go as well so I think I'll have

a ride.

Thank you for offering. Hubby couldn't believe how close everyone is on this board. It's amazing.

[brainshrub]

75. Can I ride with you?

I will know by Wednesday is I can have the time off on Friday. (I'm 90% sure the answer is yes, but I'll push the issue if I'll have a ride.)

ON EDIT: Added the word "with" to the subject heading. (blush)

[Jo March]

77. If we go, sure!

I'll know for sure by tomorrow. (Hubby's got a bit of a cold.) I'll PM you and let you know if we go or not.

Keep your fingers crossed. The trip is about 8 hours from our front door, which isn't as bad as I thought.

[chomskysright]

51. rides going from Asheville for OH count

here's the links:

marsha hammond: [e-mail]

[oddtext]

47. Asheville reporting

Let's crank up the BUS! i'm here in Montford. seriously!

[Jo March]

67. Seems as though quite a few people will be going from Asheville

I will find out today if the time and $s will allow.

I am SO pumped for this! Good Lord willing and the creek don't rise, as the old saying goes, I'll be there.

[brainshrub]

76. Let me know where & when your leaving.

PM me, or reply in this thread.

[martinolich]

2. ...Thinking seriously of doing it...

[proudtobeadem]

3. I'm in NYC and I'll go if my car can make it

[Ima]

7. Wish I could

but Ohio is forever away.

[Jo March]

29. Ima, where are you?

Anywhere around Charlotte, NC?

[freedom for all]

5. Where did you here this ..

about Bev and a filmmaker..

[Sperk]

24. on KPFT radio. here's the link another duer posted

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=5878

It was an interview with the guy who's following Bev around with his camera. He is the guy who made the short video called votergate

www.votergate.tv

[freedom for all]

35. thanks

[jsascj]

6. Maybe MM is editing

his film made of the voting.

[IAMREALITY]

8. Not Sure How To Answer Your Question

Why are they so quiet? Not sure I can answer that. After all, the question has been asked a million fucking times in the past 2 weeks. It has been answered 2 million fucking times in the past 2 weeks. If none of THOSE answers were good enough, not sure I could write anything any more powerful to be good enough. I hope you get the answers you seek, but if you don't, please take solice in the fact that there is nothing but POSITIVE vibes right now, things are getting moving, the ball is rolling, more people are starting to take notice. Things are gonna explode soon, I can feel it. Please be patient, things are going exactly the way they need to right now. I think within 2 weeks Kerry and others are going to be front and center in this FULL FORCE. It is happening. We are breaking through. Just sit back and watch this snowball build into an avalanche...

[Jo March]

16. I agree - I think that Kerry is waiting until the people march

and then he'll step in.

Have you noticed that slowly but surely things have been building? First, it's a few bloggers. Then it's a few newspapers here and there. Then it's a Congressperson or two. Then it's Nader and then Cobb. Then it's Olbermann and some more newspapers. Then it's Berkley. Then it's Jesse Jackson.

It all builds up to Kerry stepping back in. He isn't stupid. I'd bide my time if I were him. When the boom is lowered, and it will be, he will step in. It doesn't look like he's a loser and NO ONE can accuse him of dividing the country or endangering our troops or being power hungry.

[troubleinwinter]

38. Ohfergawdsake

He is "waiting until the people march"??! WHAT??? He's afraid of being accused of "dividing the country", "endangering our troops" (???!) or "being power hungry"?

I give up on speculation, games and excuses. If he is around, let him step up. Otherwise, well, I think we know.... we've seen it for the last 3 weeks.

Pffft.

[Jo March]

70. Remember what they did to Gore? Remember Sore Loserman?

And you don't think that the MSM would skewer Kerry for coming out right after the election? They'd paint him as an egomaniac who didn't care about the troops in Fallujah. They'd rake him over the coals so that, even when the recount showed him the winner, his name would be shit.

He wants to see the evidence and make sure that he has support. There is nothing wrong with that.

I have supported Kerry from the primaries. I believe in him and I'll continue to do so.

[Chimpanzee]

40. My brother said they had a short blurb on CNN about the Ohio recount

[BlueStateBlue]

52. I saw it on CNN Headline News this afternoon

They had RECOUNT? Jesse Jackson rally to investigate the Ohio election on their crawler this afternoon.

[njnop]

62. CNN this morning had a short blurb

about Jesse going to Ohio for the recount. I hope that this will snowball,

[Sperk]

26. I don't know if you're right...but I'm gonna pretend you are....

makes me feel so much better. :-)

[IAMREALITY]

39. That's the Spirit!

:)

[ailsagirl]

9. At least we still have Air America...

They'll be back tomorrow, with Randi kicking butt and Malloy--

[EndElectoral]

12. Cannot go the 4th damn...just saw F911 again tonight...forgot how powerful

it was....Moore will not remain silent long.....

[wantkerryin]

14. I'm in Philly, I'd like to go to the rally...I heard there will be bussing

but i'm not sure where and whe...But I hope to get more info about it.
I'll let you guys know as soon as I find some info on the transportaiton situation.

[MelissaB]

43. I watched it again, too!

:toast:

I wanted to refresh my memory of the Saudi connections, the stupid media, and a lot of other things. :)

[kk897]

13. Dec 4 is my birthday

and I'm going to celebrate it by going to the rally!

[Jo March]

Cool plan for a party!

Happy (early) birthday!

[gordianot]

15. I really hate this under the radar business.

Is it me or do others get the feeling that momentous events are transpiring out there?

A lot of DU'ers speculate on the Fascist nature of events could it be people are scared and do not want to call attention to themselves?

[Jo March]

19. I think that stuff is going on out there

Yes, I think that those events will prove to be monumental. It's hard to wait like this. I've been going crazy.

I feel anxious most of the time. I want ** out.

[Debbie13]

18. I'm planning on going

to the 1-3pm

[jrtruth1]

20. Vote will be certified next week...time to accept reality

I think that the leaders of the Democratic party have simply accepted that the vote is going to be certified next week and that there is no real option.

From what I understand, a majority of the 'provisional ballots' have been counted and there were not enough Kerry votes to change the outcome.

In other words, it might be time to simply accept reality like Kerry and Jackson and start working for change in 2006 and 2008. They recognize that continuing to expend energy on the vote count in 2004 is a waste of time.

In my opinion, this issue is a dry well. It's time to get on with the next challenge.

[jamboi]

21. You are misinformed. Certification is just 1 step. Jan 6th is drop dead

date, and even that has some flexibility. Just watch.

[jrtruth1]

46. I understood that Ohio had a December 2nd deadline

Am I wrong about that?

[Samantha]

49. January 20 is drop dead day

Inauguration day. This, according, to Jonathan Turley.

And to the poster above who says it's too late, start working for change in 2008, that's bull. We need to start working on our last-ditch effort; ban Ohio from sending a Slate of Electors to the Electoral College. Ban it for cheating. Or if you prefer: fraud. Ban Florida too if we can prove fraud in Florida.

If we can't get the recounts, prove the fraud, don't let them participate in the official election. We need Constitutional lawyers for this and a lot of publicity in the foreign press.

The one solution we do not need is to let it slide and try to prevent this problem in the future.

[jrtruth1]

54. What kind of information will be available next week?

As I understand it, the state of Ohio is going to release totals including how many provisional ballots were cast, how many provisional ballots were counted, and how many provisional ballots each candidate won.

Also, I believe that the absentee ballots are going to be counted.

Given the fact that Kerry had to make up about 136,000 votes, wont we have an idea if it's possible for the vote to change next week? I've been checking the AP and Reuters and have not seen any sign that Kerry is making up the difference.

[ClassWarrior]

60. You're wrong. We can frogmarch Bush** to prison any time.

Screw the deadlines - THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

NGU.

[BlueDog2u]

65. I agree

Think Ukraine. Every time you mention a deadline, Katherine Blackwell smiles. This is beyond that.

[Jo March]

30. And what would the next challenge be, in your opinion?

I'm curious.

[jrtruth1]

44. The next challenge is to organize

The Democratic party needs to change and adapt to the new realities. I'm afraid that if the party does not begin to adopt some new ideas that we will be a minority party for a long time.

How can the WE improve Social Security and Education? We had better start having some answers.

Look, I live in California and I saw what happens when a party becomes rigid and unable to adapt to new situations. We got our butts kicked by Arnold.

And you know what? We deserved it.

[Jo March]

66. This party isn't rigid and unable to adapt

We are way more inclusive than the right. We adapt too much. We believe the liars on the other side of the fence who pretend that they are all about the law and playing fair. We play fair and they steal our votes and refuse to work with us.

No, it makes no sense to work to win any future elections because we WILL NOT WIN IF OUR VOTES ARE STOLEN. Period. End of discussion. The sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be. If you keep trying to win an unwinnable war, all you'll be able to do is wallow in self-pity and wonder what you can do to change things.

It's like living with an abusive person. It doesn't matter how much you change, the person will still abuse you. You have to take care of that situation. You have to end it. Once you have ended the abuse, you won't be abused anymore.

So, there are other forums to discuss strategy for the next elections. If you can't see the sun in the sky, my friend, I don't know what to tell you.

[Eloriel]

33. It's not about Kerry any more

It's about saving democracy. Literally.

If you're not familiar with the threat to democracy that the voting machines pose, here's a little reading assignment for you:

VOTE FRAUD LINKS - A DU Compendium - Thread #3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x4927

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3223

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#


Kerry is the LEAST of it, and a coward to boot. Sure, there are people here at DU who pine to have the election overturned. Won't happen. BUT, if we don't solve the voting machine problem -- and solve it NOW -- we'll NEVER have the chance to vote in and actually elect the candidates of our choice again. Never.

There's a story in Newsweek (Dec. 6 issue) by Howard Fineman about Rove planning for a Republican "dynasty" for the next 40 years. It would be arrogant, except Karl knows whereof he speaks -- he knows what's possible and he definitely knows how to get it. THIS election was a perfection of their methods, and the next (2006) will only be better.

Rove Unleashed
For the past 30 years he's focused like a laser on George W. Bush. What does Karl Rove do for an encore? The plans for a permanent GOP majority
"In fact, Rove's formulation is a new hybrid, willing to use big government in the service of markets and morality."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6596809/site/newsweek

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jrtruth1]

48. Really?

I think you need to open your mind a bit. I'm a long time progressive who doesn't like to see progressives being suckered into wasting valuable time and energy on nonsense.

If that's what your about, then fine. But we on the progressive side had better start doing more than simply accepting rank nonsense.

[ClassWarrior]

61. Yeah, don't waste your time on nonsense like the right to vote.

Or making sure all votes count. Or making sure minorities aren't disenfranchised. That's all just nonsense.

Wow, what a shining example of a Progressive YOU are.

LOL

NGO.

[jrtruth1]

56. IN ADDITION

DAVID CORN of THE NATION:

Clear away the rhetoric, and what's mainly left are the odd early exit polls (which did show Kerry's lead in Ohio and Florida declining as Election Day went on and which ended up with the current national Bush-Kerry spread), troubling instances of bad electronic voting, and curious--or possibly curious--trends in Florida. This may be the beginning of a case; it is not a case in itself. Investigative reporter Robert Parry observes, "Theoretically, at least, it is conceivable that sophisticated CIA-style computer hacking--known as 'cyber-warfare'--could have let George W. Bush's campaign transform a three-percentage-point defeat, as measured by exit polls, into an official victory of about the same margin. Whether such a scheme is feasible, however, is another matter, since it would require penetration of hundreds of local computer systems across the country, presumably from a single remote location. The known CIA successes in cyber-war have come from targeting a specific bank account or from shutting down an adversary's computer system, not from altering data simultaneously in a large number of computers."

------------------------------------------------------------

FREEPER ALERT FREEPER ALERT!

(I hope you get my point)

[Chimpanzee]

58. nope, sorry

[goclark]

57. Well keep sleeping, this train is moving out

I love being a part of history!

Success is not for the wimpy!
Success comes to those who never give yp.

Life is like a Lottery Ticket.
If you don't play you can not win.

Let's March!

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[marlakay]

22. Are you checking out Mike's web site?

He changed the format and now posts daily real news of Iraq with a new photo daily which tells me he has someone on the close inside working for him, as wouldn't surprise me.

I think he is still at his job proving what a f..k Bush is!!

As for the others, like the last poster said, we have spent the last month trying to figure it out.

I FEEL LIKE SAYING WHERE THE FU.. IS MY PARTY??

My husband wants to quit politics totally. I am waiting, and not a patient person so that is hard. Waiting for someone, anyone to finally speak out for all of us. If it doesn't happen by next year, that is how long I will go, I will think long and hard about whether to fight hard for a third party or just to work on local issues because it feels like our party has given up.

[ClassWarrior]

63. Oh sure, when the party sucks, don't make it better - bail.

I understand your frustration, but we most need you to stand and fight when it feels like the party has given up. Remember, when the people will lead, the leaders will follow.

Never Give Up.

[esvhicl]

25. Moore

Read an article where it said Moore was decompressing after the election. Chopping wood in Wisconsin or somewhere like that where has some acreage.

His next movie is supposed to be about the Drug Industry.

I'll "google" see if I can find that article. Might've been the LA Times.

[esvhicl]

31. LA Times article

"Moore doesn't look back
November 24, 2004
By Elaine Dutka / Times Staff Writer

Chopping logs. Taking long walks in the woods outside his home in Northern Michigan. Reading the latest Robert B. Parker detective novel. Going to church on Sunday. And catching up on sleep. That's how filmmaker Michael Moore is spending his time these..."

You gotta register to get the rest of the article...

[Sperk]

34. that just seems sooooooo weird to me......I know I have to put a double

layer of foil on my hat....but I'm not buying it.....Michael.....tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.
:-)

[Cherie59]

41. I think Michael deserves a little R & R.

I am sure he will be back fighting for truth
and justice before we know it.

[fugue]

45. Actually, it makes me wonder . . .

Maybe they're all so quiet because they're getting their ducks in a row before they charge the front together?

Or have I finally gone mad? I'm generally a pessimist by nature.

[Cherie59]

50. hmmm....... you might have a good point there, fugue.

[Blue in the face]

64. About Michael Moore

Someone here posted something about him on election day with his camera taping the long lines in Democratic Counties (I want to say it was Ohio). They reported that he was yelling something about getting the truth out.

We all know this election was stolen. Why would the guy who claimed that the war in Afghanistan was all about building an oil pipeline not know it was stolen too? And why would he just sit back and chop wood?

I know it's hard to be patient, I find myself getting completely depressed at times too. But this isn't over by a long shot. And it's because of the efforts of people on the ground and people behind their computers keeping this alive.

I've said it before, but I can't say it enough. I'm so proud to be a part of this board. You guys have done more to defend this democracy than the shrub and his minions of chickenhawks could ever imagine.

Schilling and the Red Sox said when down 0-3 to the Yankees and were told constantly that no one could come back, Why not us? I've been told time and again that even if their was fraud in this election that there was nothing that we could do about it. But I have to ask, Why not us?

[Jo March]

68. I don't think that you are mad, fugue

I mean, really, why is everyone quiet? It took how long for Jesse Jackson to speak up? Jesse is not browbeaten by nature. And where is Al Sharpton? Come on. It's not like Al to be so quiet. And everyone else on the left? Can they all be beaten down by this? I just don't think so.

I hope that I'm not wrong on this one, though, but I think that they are coming up with something.

[mzmolly]

53. It seems VERY logical that they would be silent under these conditions.

One can't come out gunz a blazin' without evidence, and evidence takes time to gather.

[gordianot]

55. Unless you have inside information.

Like Powell and Lugar in the Ukraine.

I've never subscribed to the idea what you don't know can't hurt you.

[Jo March]

69. Right. Can you imagine if they all came out together?

Kerry, Edwards, Clark, Dean, H Clinton, B Clinton - the whole gang! Add in some fiery Congress peeps and boy, would we show the country that we are not dead after all!

Dems with spines. That's all I ask for - Dems with spines.

It would be a cool sight to see our Democratic leadership standing up and speaking out. That would be so incredibly awesome.

[DoYouEverWonder]

71. I just don't know

if I can hold my breathe any longer. Okay guys, time to wrap up the discovery phase of this operation. We've got plenty of evidence. Certainly enough to shut down the rest of the 2004 electoral process, so that a proper investigation can be done.

We will never get anywhere until we get court orders to open the records and the machines. Only then will we be able to prove what we already know.

[Jo March]

72. I'm with you there - but let's get everyone together in the sand box

I'm ready for my elected officials to work for me. I want them to make a united stand so that no one mistakes their message or intent - voter fraud is illegal, it needs to be wiped out and those who would play with our votes should be imprisoned.

[thephaseshift]

73. MM during the election

He was indeed in OH, filming.

During the election he had a sort of database set up where people from around the country could write in with their voting experiences. Many people wrote, and the biggest complaint seemed to involve not receiving mail-in registration and various other registration problems. Since Nov 2-3 the list has disappeared and he hasn't mentioned it.

On Nov 3 his site sort of froze, and then bits and pieces came back up, starting with his image of Bush made up of the faces of the fallen Americans in Iraq. About a week after the election he was back to normal...but it looked to me like he'd had a big shock or something and didn't know what to put on his site.

I'm also wondering if he's convinced of fraud or not. He hasn't been talking much about it on his site, although it pops up now and then in his references to other articles. A bit strange if you ask me...especially considering how gung-ho he was about the election before it happened. Maybe there's something brewing we don't know about.

I DO know that votergate.tv (with Bev Harris) are planning on doing a documentary on the e-fraud, so maybe Moore's keeping out of it. He seems to be following the war closely, but not much more. Hm. A mystery for now.

Or how's this for another conspiracy theory: somebody threatened his life if he were to talk too loudly about fraud! And for a week or so he was scared out of his mind, and now he's treading carefully.

Anyhow, there's no point wondering...just wait and see.