Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I'm having no trouble believing Madsen

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
 
Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:12 PM
Original message
I'm having no trouble believing Madsen
Below in parenthesis I comment on Madsen's article on the Saudi's, et.al and election rigging. Madsen is simply building on a base of knowledge already established.


http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112504Mads... <http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112504Madsen/112504madsen.html>

By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer


November 25, 2004-According to informed sources in Washington and Houston, the Bush campaign spent some $29 million to pay polling place operatives around the country to rig the election for Bush. The operatives were posing as Homeland Security and FBI agents but were actually technicians familiar with Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S, Triad, Unilect, and Danaher Controls voting machines. These technicians reportedly hacked the systems to skew the results in favor of Bush.


(Seems easy enough to believe, anybody that been at DU awhile knows of the cozy link between Diebold, ES&S and Repugs. Especially Diebold head O'Dell saying he is working hard for a Bush win. Maybe check when the last time he met with the Saudis. Just ask Bev Harris. )


The leak about the money and the rigged election apparently came from technicians who were promised to be paid a certain amount for their work but the Bush campaign interlocutors reneged and some of the technicians are revealing the nature of the vote rigging program.

(What? Bushboy being greedy? Nah, probably just didn't want a paper trail going downstream.)



There have been media reports from around the country concerning the locking down of precincts while votes were being tallied. In one unprecedented action in Warren County, Ohio, election officials locked down the facility where votes were being counted. The officials said this was in response to a Level 10 high-threat terrorist warning being issued by the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI for Warren County. George Bush won 72 percent of the vote in Warren County, much larger than his percentage of victory statewide.

(This can be easily validated or refuted. The lockdown wasn't done for nothing and now we have seen lockdowns in other states at different levels in the voting process.)



The money to rig the election in favor of Bush reportedly came from an entity called Five Star Trust, largely based in Houston but a worldwide entity that is directly tied to the Saudi Royal Family. Five Star Trust was termed "a well-protected vehicle" that has been used to support both Bush and Osama bin Laden in the US and around the world.


(Nothing at all unusual here. Michael Moore's movie 9/11 and oodles of info here at DU corroborate the money link between the Bushies and Saudis as well as both of their links to the bin Laden's. A topic I started shows the link between the Saudi Iran-Contra arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi and "madame butterfly" Lepore: the Palm beach ballot chief. Plus BBV knows about the Saudi link to vote machine companies)



Other money used to fund the election rigging was from siphoned Enron money stored away in accounts in the Cook Islands, which was once the base of one of the more questionable and Saudi-linked BCCI subsidiaries. Cook Islands banks also handled some of the weapons smuggling financing of the Iran-Contra scandal. A former Justice Department attorney who helped prosecute the BCCI case said the use of the Cook Islands by the Bush reelection team indicates they wanted the bank arrangements to be a "quick folding tent" operation that would cease to exist when the election was over. He said the Cook Islands was notorious for not requiring any documentation for such operations.

(Remember Enron was the largest campaign contributor to Bush in the 2000 election. The BCCI connections like Mahfouz>Bush is well documented. Madsen has Justice Dept. attorney as a source. This sounds reasonable. How many times in the past couple of years have we seen people from the government divulge some dirty secrets about the Bushies? )


In fact, the Cook Islands has been a favorite location for various covert intelligence activities. This most recent use of the islands is a continuation of a scandal discovered in New Zealand in the early '90s called the "Winebox Affair." In 1992, a computer dealer named Paul White bought some secondhand computers and floppy disks from the Citibank office in Auckland, New Zealand, that had earlier sold them to a scrap dealer.

(This is another easily verified claim. Just google "Winebox Affair". It's real.)



White later discovered the floppies (and 10 paper files) detailed a scheme to use the European Pacific Bank in the Cook Islands to bilk foreign governments and banks for a phony 15 percent tax bill assessed on various transactions by the Cook Islands government (at the time run by Tom Davis, a former US Army and NASA research scientist who was allegedly on the payroll of the CIA). European Pacific reaped millions of illegal dollars from the New Zealand Treasury and a number of Japanese banks, including Mitsubishi Bank. Paul White later died in a suspicious auto accident.

(Suspicious auto accident? This certainly is not an unusual ending for people who know too much about Bushie corruption. Let's just call this a "suicided" for now. Maybe take another look at Mr. White's "accident" and coroner reports.)


Nothing Madsen said is out of order and simply builds on and corroborates what many of DU's more intrepid investigators have already discovered.

It also opens up more leads to follow.

Thanks You Mr. Madsen.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
bookman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. One Scary Story nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shalom Donating Member (832 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. It All Fits: GOOD JOB !!
Good job. At a certain point, we need to decide to trust Bush or Madsen. Who are we going to trust: Bush, or our own lying eyes ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Left Brain Donating Member (895 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Shalom,
for me, trust is something to be earned. Some of us can't make a kind of "you're either with us or with the terrorists" decision on this issue right now. I don't trust Bush, and I'm not so sure I trust Madsen just yet.

Skepticism is not a bad thing. It helps us pose the questions that get to the truth of the matter.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. That's an utterly false choice, and an egregiously ill-informed one
at that.

There is plenty of other information out there without Madsen's, which is probably another reason I'm skeptical: yeah, it would be nice to have such a nice, neat package, but it's UNNECESSARY and probably a distraction. And who is it we know specializes in the fine art of weapons of mass distraction?

Oh, and if you doubt me, have a nice, long, leisurely walk through these threads:

VOTE FRAUD LINKS - A DU Compendium - Thread #3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x4927

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3223

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. what distraction? it's not taking away from other efforts
in fact it leads into it. I'm disappointed that anyone would use their own efforts to try and discredit Madsen investigating and telling a this very serious story.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. We can easily focus on the multi-purpose aspects & even if Madsen's story
doesn't have legs overall the particular aspects of the story might. Like Eloriel yourself, you went after the "lockdown" aspect. Perfect example.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. Are you calling this topic a distraction?
Wasn't to sure what you meant.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. I am taking a wait-and-see attitude.
Edited on Mon Nov-29-04 01:41 PM by Tandalayo_Scheisskop
Admittedly, the story is seductive. Being an incipient old fart, well beyond my years, I find myself needing a higher level of proof.

Some of it fits. Some of it strains my credulity and highly-tuned bullshit filter.

I can be proven wrong, I am not discarding anything out of hand. More than anything else, I recognize that we do live in bizarre times and everything is possible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Well, sure. How much you believe Madsen depends very much on
what you know about the topic. Madsen's take would appear off the wall to someone who isn't versed in alot of the baseline info. He may get a particular wrong here and there or even be duped by disinformation, but the pattern is at least worthy of further investigation of its component parts.

I would like to hear any specific questions you may have. I respect your judgement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flamin blue state Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. I don't need to ask questions...
I saw it first hand. I had a bottle thrown at me, and I got cussed, just for holding a sign. We were robbed, no doubt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. Nothing you say sounds like substantiating evidence
At most, it means that Madsen -- or whoever is feeding Madsen the information -- has taken care to give it an air or verisimilitude by studding it with familiar names. (Saudis! BCCI! Iran-Contra!)

That isn't substantiation. Substantiation is when testimony by an outside witness, or information from an independent source that might not have been known to the person making the original statement, backs up that statement. There is nothing like that here.

Some of the things you mention even undercut Madsen's story. For example, it has been pointed out several times at DU that if Diebold, etc. have been building in back-door rigging mechanisms for the last several years, there should be no need to pay $29 million, engage (and then underpay) foreign technicians, or get involved with other countries and overseas money-laundering operations.

I've respected Madsen in the past, and I'm not eager to conclude that he's way off base in this case, but the story at this point has far more the air of a tall tale of Munchausen dimensions than of straight scoop.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. It's standard operating practice to outsource dirty work
When Madsen speaks of foreign technicians, for me, that's well in line with the history of how this gang operates. Think, for instance, of the Cubans in Kennedy's murder, Watergate and even Iran/Contra.

Diebold et al no doubt would want plausible denial. Leaving the backdoor open might be as much as they were willing to implicate themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
life_long_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
39. And what is the going price to rig a computer for fraud? $$$$$$$$$$$
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. The back-door rigging systems have been discovered long ago
by BBV and this interrupted business as usual. Wouldn't this then require a new approach to tweeking the vote?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. it's designed for people who want to believe it
that's Madsen's market.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I guess so
We used to bitch about this same sort of thing before the election coming from the right and laugh at the freepers for gulping it up ("John Kerry was not honorably discharged!") I guess some people here are so depressed about the election that they'll believe anything to give themselves a little false hope.

As for me, I think Keith Olbermann raised some serious questions about this article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6533008/#041127a
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Some of Olberman's Comments are on Target
for example, the whisleblowers he claims to have talked with were low-level operatives. It would be unlikely for these individuals to know details of the nationwide effort including the total of $29 million and specifics of the bank accounts and sources of the money.

I have to agree with KO. Those are big red flags, and make it very difficult to believe the story as it is presented.

As far as whether a nationwide fraud operation took place, it's entirely possible. If Madsen had evidence of that, he should have focused on what he actually knew and been able to substantiate the specifics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. You are right.
There are problems with the details. Serious problems. We shouldn't hang our hats on stories like this, or Fisher's. We need to push the problems, not the theories.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. ??Madsen does not attribute the source on the $29 mil to these operatives.
Edited on Mon Nov-29-04 03:00 PM by Carl Brennan
You've built your argument on a premise that is not, neccesarily, true.


November 25, 2004-According to informed sources in Washington and Houston, the Bush campaign spent some $29 million to pay polling place operatives around the country to rig the election for Bush. The operatives were posing as Homeland Security and FBI agents but were actually technicians familiar with Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S, Triad, Unilect, and Danaher Controls voting machines. These technicians reportedly hacked the systems to skew the results in favor of Bush.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
33. OK, But Aren't the Unnamed Operatives the Only Ones He Cites?
Does he refer to other unnamed sources?

Madsen's report sounds a lot like Al Martin: breathtaking assertions, unnamed sources, and details of high-level private conversations. Al Martin is not usually considered a good source.

Watergate, on the other hand, proceeded bit by bit. It started as a small story and details emerged as the investigation proceeded. That's the pattern I would expect in an investigation of government corruption.

Maybe there's a real basis for the story, but a report like Madsen's fits a pattern. It just sounds like BS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. He does name a Justice Dept. attorney in the article above.
So much of this depends on what the reader already knows about things like BCCI, Saudi-bin Laden-Bush connections, etc. What I think Madsen is doing is what I call investigative island hopping. You do an end run around the frontlines and take a higher objective like the US did in the Phillipines in WWII.
The Japaneze would mass their forces to fight a retreating action and the US would take another island further up the chain, completely bypassing the expected battle zone.

Granted this is risky in war, but I don't think it is risky in this election fraud situation. It expands the topic and opens up new lines of attack for those like myself who have researched this stuff for years.

What I see emerging is confirmation of earlier scandals like BCCI and the Saudi link to the Bush's. I dug up old info I had on "Madame Butterfly" Lepore and her links to the Saudis after reading Madsen's article. I e-mailed this info and he said it was very important to putting the pieces together. At anytime one of these people in this chain could tumble, but at least it ratchets up the fear they have of getting caught.

I agree Al Martin is problematic, because nothing can be verified. Though I believe him I do not cite him. I only believe him because it fits what I have learned from more reliable sources.



The dynamics with the Internet in the game make a comparison to Watergate tough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Got any specific criticism?
I'd love to hear it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. deep throat, white house tapes, office breakins,....
....those of us old enough to remember when those stories were 'breaking' also remember the 'oh, sure; bullshit; no way in hell; they ain't that dumb; if they did it they're way to smart to admit it; cover up, what cover up; tapes, right, they're gonna tape......' responses most everyone first expressed.......

Have no clue whether Madsen is writing for comedy central, Bush's next speech, or whatever......

But, I lived in Georgetown DC between 1970 and 79 and I watched more than one drunk with connections to the 'WH' stumbling along the sidewalk as efforts to 'debunk' those stories were meeting what is absolutely missing today -- a national press that gives a damn about our Constitution and our crumbling democracy franchise.

"Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. But if it turns out to be incorrect...
We still have problems that need to be investigated. If this fits and is true, GREAT!!! But we shouldn't rely on things like this. We need to push the problem. At least, that's what I think...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. I assure you, I am focused on one and only one...
....thing -- "Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

I don't need a 'deep throat' or a 'Madsen' or anyone else to motivate me to demand that evidence that my vote, your vote, and every other member of the franchise's vote be accounted and until the system can provide that accounting it is a farce, not a democracy.

My post was simply to indicate that I've lived through many events that, at first blush, received the justified skepticism that Madsen is receiving, and, some of the craziest, most arrogant actions of all the President's men happened to be true, stupid, but true.

Thanks for prodding me to clarify; and I know you want a fair and valid system, just as I and most everyone who posts here does.

Peace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. Jack Shaw
Edited on Mon Nov-29-04 02:08 PM by seemslikeadream
No. 765-04
IMMEDIATE RELEASE August 10, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DoD Statement on Jack Shaw and the Iraq Telecommunications Contract

For several months there have been allegations in the press that activities of John A. Shaw, Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for International Technology Security, were under investigation by the Inspector General of the Department of Defense (DoD IG). The allegations were examined by DoD IG criminal investigators in Baghdad and a criminal investigation was never opened.

Furthermore, attempts to discredit Shaw and his report on Iraqi telecommunications contracting matters were brought to the attention of the DoD IG and were accordingly referred to the FBI.

Shaw carried out his duties in the investigation of Iraqi telecommunications matters pursuant to the authorities spelled out in the Memorandum of Understanding between the DoD IG and the Acting Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics. Shaw provided a copy of his report to the DOD IG and, at the request of the Coalition Provisional Authority, to the Iraqi National Communications and Media Commission.

Shaw is not now, nor has he ever been, under investigation by the DoD IG. Any questions concerning FBI activities should be addressed to the FBI.

http://www.dod.mil/releases/2004/nr20040810-1103.html


Winds of Change:Troubled Waters Ahead For the Neo Cons
by
Wayne Madsen

The neo-con attack on Shaw was predictable considering their previous attacks on Ambassador Joe Wilson, his wife Valerie Plame, former U.S. Central Command chief General Anthony Zinni, former counter-terrorism coordinator Richard Clarke, former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, CIA counter-terrorism agent Michael Scheuer (the "anonymous" author of Imperial Hubris who has recently been gagged by the Bush administration), fired FBI translator Sibel Edmonds (who likely discovered a penetration by Israeli and other intelligence assets using the false flag of the Turkish American Council and who also has been gagged by the Bush administration), and all those who took on the global domination cabal. But Shaw showed incredible moxie. When he decided to investigate Pentagon Inspector General Reports that firms tied to Perle and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz were benefiting from windfall profit contracts in Iraq, Shaw decided to go to Iraq himself to find out what was going on. When Shaw was denied entry into Iraq by U.S. military officers (yes, a top level official of the Defense Department was denied access to Iraq by U.S. military personnel!), he decided to sneak into the country disguised as a Halliburton contractor. Using the cover of Cheney's old company to get the goods on Cheney's friends' illegal activities was yet another masterful stroke of genius by Shaw. But it also earned him the wrath of the neo-cons. They soon leaked a story to the Los Angeles Times claiming that Shaw actually snuck into Iraq to ensure that Qualcomm (on whose board sat a friend of Shaw's) was awarded a lucrative cell network contract.

But nothing could be further from the truth. Shaw, who worked for Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush, represented the Old Guard Republican entity that in August 2003 set up shop in the Pentagon right under the noses of Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Feith to investigate the neo-con cabal and their illegal contract deals. The entity, known as the International Armament and Technology Trade Directorate, was soon shut down as a result of neo-con pressure. Not to be deterred, Shaw continued his investigation of the neo-cons. Although the neo-cons told the Los Angeles Times that the FBI was investigating Shaw, the reverse was the case: the FBI was investigating the neo-cons, particularly Perle and Wolfowitz, for fraudulent activities involving Iraqi contracts. And in worse news for the neo-cons: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was giving the Inspector General's and Shaw's investigations a "wink and a nod" of approval.

The financial stakes for the Pentagon are high - the Iraqi CPA's Inspector General recently revealed that over $1 billion of Iraqi money was missing from the audit books on Iraqi contracts. For Shaw and the FBI, it was a matter of what they suspected for many years - that Perle, Wolfowitz, and their comrades were running entities that ensured favorable treatment for Israeli activities - whether they were business opportunities in a U.S.-occupied Arab country or protecting Israeli spies operating within the U.S. defense and intelligence establishments.

Shaw certainly must have recalled how, during the Reagan administration, an Israeli spy named Jonathan Pollard was able to steal massive amounts of sensitive U.S. intelligence over a long period of time and hand it over to his Israeli control officer, a dangerous and deadly agent provocateur named Rafael "Rafi" Eitan. That had disastrous effects on U.S. intelligence operations throughout the world because some of the documents were handed by the Israelis to the Soviets in return for letting more Soviet Jews emigrate to Israel.

more
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/081104_winds_change.shtml

I haven't seen anyone else write about Shaw except a false leaked story to discredit him. That's why the DoD had to release that statement above. There's the story

Defense Official Probed on Contracts


Los Angeles Times
July 07, 2004
T. Christian Miller

Washington -- A senior Defense Department official conducted unauthorized investigations of Iraq reconstruction efforts and used their results to push for lucrative contracts for friends and their business clients, according to current and former Pentagon officials and documents.
John "Jack" Shaw, deputy undersecretary for international technology security, represented himself as an agent of the Pentagon's inspector general in conducting the investigations this year, sources said.

In one case, Shaw disguised himself as an employee of Halliburton Co. and gained access to a port in southern Iraq after he was denied entry by the U.S. military, the sources said.

In that investigation, Shaw found problems with operations at the port of Umm al Qasr, Pentagon sources said. In another, he criticized a competition sponsored by the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority to award cell phone licenses in Iraq.

In both cases, Shaw urged government officials to fix the alleged problems by directing multimillion-dollar contracts to companies linked to his friends, without competitive bidding, according to the Pentagon sources and documents. In the case of the port, the clients of a lobbyist friend won a no- bid contract for dredging.
more
http://www.globalexchange.org/countries/unitedstates/democracy/2253.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
32. This shows the complexity and dangers of trying to investigate government
wrongdoing when those being probed get wind of it.

Thanks for that sld
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. I still say --
November 25, 2004-According to informed sources in Washington and Houston, the Bush campaign spent some $29 million to pay polling place operatives around the country to rig the election for Bush. The operatives were posing as Homeland Security and FBI agents but were actually technicians familiar with Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S, Triad, Unilect, and Danaher Controls voting machines. These technicians reportedly hacked the systems to skew the results in favor of Bush.

That none of that was necessary. They had regular technicians in most of the counties, contractors to or employees of the voting machine companies, who could achieve the same purpose without even KNOWING what they were doing (applying patches sent by HQ, for example, or making sure the damn modems worked). Further, as long as the modems are in place, the technicians aren't even necessary except that the machines seem to malfunction a lot.

I am still greatly afraid this is a Rather- and Hatfield-like set-up for Madsen. We shall see. I wish him the best, but ... I'm skeptical.

Furthermore, if you have other lockdown reports OR reports of FBI/Homeland Security personnel on site, by all means please share them. We didn't find all that many in my thread on the subject, and they fell into two categories: schools taking precautions and 3 ES&S locations locking out the press and public from the vote counting. Not much there, IMO. So I'd definitely be interested in your other reports. Here's my thread:

RESEARCHERS -- need some googling QUICK re Vote Fraud
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2750379
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
freedom for all Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Maybe
the repubs would rather work with illegals or criminals instead elections personal.. Maybe if exposed they could discredit the undesirables.. Maybe elections personal if caught would provide a real legit witness the repubs could not destroy.. Plus an elections person might have second thoughts or could even be pressured through nasty means to come forward.. I don't know what to believe but anything is possible and should be looked at.. I guess in Watergate no one thought that it was a big deal a couple of thugs broke into that office but see what it produced...Sometimes the unbelievable turns out to be the truth.. I think there are enough good people here at DU to check out all the leads that come up but none should be considered the smoking gun until it can be proven..We don't want any lead not looked at or we don't want one idea to get to much attention..Good organization is the key...Maybe someone who knows everyone here at DU could get certain people focused on certain stories and not have everyone concentrate on just one.. This may already be going on and i don't realize it..Bottom line as i see it..
There are a lot of great people here at DU and thank you all for all your hard work..We have some True American heroes at DU..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. This is exactly the opposite of Watergate
Watergate started as a tiny story about a highly visible crime. The story then got bigger and bigger and reached further and further into the Nixon administration.

http://www.watergate.info/burglary/burglars.shtml
There were 5 burglars arrested on June 17, 1972 at the Watergate offices of the Democratic National Committee:

1. Bernard L. Barker - a realtor from Miami, Florida. Former Central Intelligence Agency operative. Barker was said to have been involved in the Bay of Pigs incident in 1962.

2. Virgilio R. Gonzales - a locksmith from Miami, Florida. Gonzalez was a refugee from Cuba, following Castro's takeover.

3. James W. McCord - a security co-ordinator for the Republican National Committee and the Committee for the Re-election of the President. McCord was also a former FBI and CIA agent. He was dismissed from his RNC and CREEP positions the day after the break-in.

4. Eugenio R. Martinez - worked for Barker's Miami real estate firm. He had CIA connections and was an anti-Castro Cuban exile. Click here to read Martinez's account of the burglary.

5. Frank A. Sturgis - another associate of Barker from Miami, he also had CIA connections and involvement in anti-Castro activities.

The five men were charged with attempted burglary and attempted interception of telephone and other communications.

In this Madsen story, there are no burglars, no arrests, not even any hard evidence of a crime. Instead there are unsubstantiated charges of a vast and far-reaching conspiracy. But there's nothing solid to grab and no obvious place to go with it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
19. Follow the money. Always.
Edited on Mon Nov-29-04 02:54 PM by Minstrel Boy
This is what Madsen's story is about, and this is why I'm very encouraged by it.

I wrote him yesterday and got this reply:

"Thanks.. as you know Watergate and Iran-contra were discovered by FTM (Following the Money) -- some of the computer guys out there think that is a waste of time but alas my middle age allows me to remember past GOP tricks and put them in today's context."

If Madsen can establish a money trail it is of tremendous evidentiary value. Much more so even than identifying problems with the electronic counting, which could always, however implausibly, be spun as "glitches."

I'm persuaded this is not an elaborate Rovian stunt. Why? Because there is no need for it. Do you see protesters on the street, or the corporate news pumping allegations of fraud? No. To most of America, the allegations do not even exist. The thought that the GOP would set up Madsen is foolish. He doesn't need discrediting for the benefit of the "mainstream." To the mainstream, he's already a "conspiracy nut." That's the lot of American investigative journalists today.

To them Madsen, and all of us, are beyond the fringe. We can know the truth, and it won't change a damn thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shalom Donating Member (832 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. Minstrel Boy Sings the Truth: FOLLOW THE MONEY !!!
A separae thread on this topic is named:
Kerry "Followed the Money" Before, Can Do It Again ( Madsen scoop)


While Dems concerned over fraud fret that Kerry has not made a public move yet, remember he is a prosecutor by training, and used this to great effect in standing up to both political parties in his investigation into BCCI over 15 years ago. See link & excerpt at end of message....

You've got to believe he and his staff has sources that can help with the recent implication from Madsen that BCCI is still up to their old tricks, based upon the shit they uncovered on these criminals before.

And, by the way, instead of running Kerry down, study his resume, and acknowledge the battles he has fought for America, vs. the AWOL cowardly Nazi descendant, the cokehead commander-in-thief, the POS POTUS, GEORGE WALKER BUSHITLER.

------------------------------------------------------------------

from Washington Monthly - numerous sites confirm this info:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0409.sir...

FROM DRUG LORDS TO LOBBYSISTS

Despite having helmed the initial probe which led to the Iran-Contra investigation, Kerry was left off the elite Iran-Contra committee in 1987. As a consolation prize, the Democratic leadership in Congress made Kerry the chairman of the Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics, and International Operations and told him to dig into the Contra-drug connection. Kerry turned to BCCI early in the second year of the probe when his investigators learned that Panamanian strongman Manuel Noriega was laundering drug profits through the bank on behalf of the Medellin cartel.

By March 1988, Kerry's subcommittee had obtained permission from the Foreign Relations Committee to seek subpoenas for both BCCI and individuals at the bank involved in handling Noriega's assets, as well as those handling the accounts of others in Panama and Colombia. Very quickly, though, Kerry faced a roadblock. Citing concerns that the senator's requests would interfere with an ongoing sting operation in Tampa, the Justice Department delayed the subpoenas until 1988, at which point the subcommittee's mandate was running out.

BCCI, meanwhile, had its own connections. Prominent figures with ties to the bank included former president Jimmy Carter's budget director, Bert Lance, and a bevy of powerful Washington lobbyists with close ties to President George H.W. Bush, a web of influence that may have helped the bank evade previous investigations. In 1985 and 1986, for instance, the Reagan administration launched no investigation even after the CIA had sent reports to the Treasury, Commerce, and State Departments bluntly describing the bank's role in drug-money laundering and other illegal activities.

In the spring of 1989, Kerry hit another obstacle. Foreign Relations Committee chairman Claiborne Pell (D-R.I.), under pressure from both parties, formally asked Kerry to end his probe. Worried the information he had collected would languish, Kerry quickly dispatched investigator Jack Blum to present the information his committee had found about BCCI's money-laundering operations to the Justice Department. But according to Blum, the Justice Department failed to follow up.

The young senator from Massachusetts, thus, faced a difficult choice. Kerry could play ball with the establishment and back away from BCCI, or he could stay focused on the public interest and gamble his political reputation by pushing forward.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jon8503 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
29. I look at it this way, have you ever seen the other side sooo
very quiet about something this disturbing. Maybe nothing to it but could it be scary to them.

The radicals are usually hopping all over something like this. Makes the possibility of ignore it and it will go away.

Don't know how credible this is as of yet but believe it certainly should be investigated at the least. If nothing is there, then nothing is there. On the other hand.............
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I agree that the silence is deafening and yet, perhaps the silence
is an attempt to keep out the attack dogs until one has breached the walls so to speak...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Well even if its not it may serve us by keeping us under the radar
to avoid their attack dogs until we can swarm and breach the walls en masse. The horde cometh. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
life_long_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. I agree, If Madsen want's to make these claims and investigate
this matter , more power to him. He didn't come here asking for info before the original story was released. If he truly believes what he thinks, great. We need more people willing to stick their neck out like he is doing. If it turns out that nothing can be proved, we haven't lost anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
37. Madsen DU Q&A posted on website
Roger_Otip writes

"i've put a WayneMadsen page up here

http://www.legjoints.com/WayneMadsen/

lifted from the DU Q&A"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
41. Anyone who's serious about organizing research on this plz join me here
New, Improved Madsen Research Project Strategy Thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=201
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Corrected Link for Madsen Research
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pauldp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
43. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC