Kerry's AWOL is worse than Bush's AWOL

[TruthIsAll]

It's time. If Kerry was waiting for the proof that the election was stolen, he need wait no longer. Circumstantial evidence and documented proof of fraud abounds. So what is he still waiting for?

Bush going AWOL because he would have failed a drug test or was afraid to fly pales in comparison.

Kerry let down 60 million democrats by failing to fight to protect their vote. I never thought I would ever say this. But its true.

Kerry has been AWOL for almost 30 days. If he doesn't come back to his unit by Dec. 3, then he's officially a deserter. And he is effectively aiding and abetting the enemy, Bush.

Al Gore fought as best as he could for as long as he could because he knew he won Florida and the popular vote by 537,000 votes.

Kerry won Florida, he won Ohio, he won New Mexico and a few others.
He won the electoral vote with at least 311 votes. He won the popular vote by 2-3%. Everyone called him the winner on Nov. 2.

I guess he really doesn't want it badly enough. He appears to have lost the fire in his belly. I hope I'm wrong. We will all know if it's true within a week or so.

John, you reported for duty in July - but you have apparently aborted your tour after four short months.

I once knew another JFK. He never went AWOL when it became necessary to talk straight to the American people. Neither did Harry Truman. Or Jimmy Carter. They all made me proud to be a member of the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

I just hope we won't have to say about you what we did about him: Johnny, we hardly knew ye.

[BamaLefty]

1. Count to ten...

count sheep or something. Work on '08, this election is over.

[lilfroggy]

How about count goats n/t

[lilfroggy]

5. How about count goats n/t

[politicasista]

6. I don't want to believe that, but

Everyone is so silent. I have tried to hold out hope, but it's a shame because so many of us worked hard and stood in long lines rain or shine to get Kerry/Edwards in the WH. Say what you want, but he would have made a good prez since Clinton.

[gumby]

14. Perhaps you don't understand?

Elections are over. Get it? There is NO NEED to work on '08 because the Bush Crime Family has just extinguished this democracy.

Where ya been?

[NVMojo]

32. I hate to agree with you, Gumby, but I worry you may be right.

[googly]

34. I respectfully disagree. All we need is another Bill CLinton type.

If we pick someone who can triangulate like Billy we will win and win big in 2008.

[trayfoot]

38. NO, we won't win

because the electoral system is "fixed"! Can't people get that in their heads? Jesus Christ couldn't win with this kind of "fix" in place. But, what you will find in 06 and 08 are fewer dems willing to donate energy, time, or money because the party let them down. And I hate to say it, but I am one of those dems - county dem chair, as a matter of fact. So, this is really "D Day" for the Democratic Party. Not only will they not expand their reach - they are risking losing the base.

[googly]

53. All depends on the margin of victory. It is easy to defraud when

the differnce in votes iswithin 1 or 2%. Clinton beat Dole by a whopping 8% (I think), impossible to change by fraud.

[Spiffarino]

56. You are so right

The Democratic party in my county is heavily invested - both economically and emotionally - in the Sequoia machines we now use. A local BBV activist pointed out the machine's poor track record and he was all but shouted down by local party operatives. This was before the Nov. 2nd election.

Now that it's over, their heads are still in the sand. They won't even talk about BBV and it's implications. They don't want to hear about stolen votes, tampering, or anything else that is on our minds if it relates to this voting travesty.

I hate to say it, but I think I'm through with the party system. It's time to get active where I'll be able to make a difference. The DNC is abandoning us. If the party refuses to address BBV, we will cease to be the "Democratic" party and will instead be the "Democrat" party that the RW likes to use to marginalize us.

[Cobalt Violet]

48. With fraud we only win when they let us. n/t

[meisje]

2. and Gore is where now?

Kerry would get Gorred

[LisaL]

8. Is there a difference?

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[smartvoter]

3. You will be flamed for this.

But I agree with you.

[Lugnut]

23. No way!

I will never flame TIA. I look forward to every post TIA makes and have for a long time. I don't know if I agree or disagree. I just don't know.

What I do know is I can't understand the deafing silence from my party's leaders. I hope TIA is wrong but I'm not counting on it.

[rucky]

4. The Laci Petersen case is based on circumstantial evidence.

that hasn't stopped anybody from talking about it.

[LisaL]

9. Yep. Every day for years and years.

[googly]

35. That case has a handsome philanderer, a knockout blonde mistress

and two dead bodies....much more intriguing than Kerry-Bush.

[IAMREALITY]

59. I actually never found that analogy to be correct

I never thought this is anything like the Laci case. After all, they actually HAD a dead body.

To make it similar, Laci would have to still be alive walking around, but it would really be an imposter that went through plastic surgery to look just like her, though the real one is in fact dead. They would not have found a body, and though you had all Laci's friends and family saying "that's not her, I swear it's not her", no law enforcement would step in and do a DNA test or any other REAL test to prove that in fact the new Laci WAS a fraud. Now if that were the case it would be similar.

Unfortunately, in this election case, there is a fake Laci walking around (mandate) while the real Laci lays dead hidden away where no one will ever find her (democracy), and the police just refuse to help us search. (DNC, Dem Leaders, the media, our neighbors, co-workers, judges, etc...)

But, none of that is gonna stop me and the rest of us from lookin anyway!

[BlueEyedSon]

7. Where is the ironclad proof... the smoking gun.... the red-handed

perpetrators?

Yeah, I thought so.

Just relax TIA. The bad guys covered their tracks pretty well this time... they can't win forever.

But DON'T BLAME KERRY.

[Old and In the Way]

10. Second that.

I have a feeling all the rules are out the door, we've crossed into uncharted territories. We are playing by Republican rules now....but I have a distinct feeling that could change quickly and at any time.

Meanwhile, here's what the DNC/DLC had better be thinking about doing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x89055

[politicasista]

13. How can you tell?

I have been hearing that since November 3. The media is Bush's friend.

[Old and In the Way]

25. I feel like we are suspended in a supersaturated solution.

Just a little bit more shit gets added and the whole thing breaks down.

[LisaL]

11. Well, look at the Ukrainian opposition.

That guy told them to go out there and protest. And it looks like they might get a new election. Which is way more than we are getting.

[seito]

19. Do you honestly think we could ever hope for a new election

in this country with our media. We could not even get a partial recount in Florida in 2000. Now, we have a good chance for a full recount in 3 states.

I suppose I will be flamed for keeping my trust in John Kerry. He could have called us to rise in protest, but the media would have spun this to the point where we would have absolutely no credibility.

In this country up is down and right is right and if that fails, just raise the terror level. To have any chance, we have to approach this issue from a position of credibility and irrefutable proof.

[malatesta1137]

50. Kerry is too much of a coward

to even take on the media, let alone the Bush Crime Family. If he really wanted it, he could've exposed the media whores as they truly are after the election theft. But the wimp chose to flee.

[TruthIsAll]

12. Sorry, that won't fly. Past is prologue. He should have known

what to expect.

It pains me to post this. I hope he makes me eat my words.

Smoking gun? This election farce has guns going off all over the place.. It should be obvious what has been and continues to go down. Kerry should have been ready from the get-go. The optical scammers, the spoiled punched cards, the hacked machines - this was no surprise.

Time to get rid of the camouflage. And charge.

They got their feet wet in Florida 2000.
They became more sophisticated in the 2002 elections (Rob-Georgia).
They have implemented massive fraud in 2004.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice....

[gumby]

16. BINGO !!!!

ahhhh, that post was just about perfect.

[autorank]

33. I agree with TIA. Everything we use relies on mathematics and

statistical analysis, every material thing. Now, when you apply statistical analysis as TIA has done and others and it says "this election is a fraud," that's all you need. If there are compelling statistics on the other side and there is no evidence of voter fraud then I'll change my view. The only source that may rely on some statistical analysis is Cal Tech but their report came out early and under the imprimatur of the infamous David Baltimore (not known for his excellent data, ask the Hon. J. Dingell).

The election was stolen, get over it. The next step is action and protest.

Corporate America controls the media and we get manufactured news.
Corporate America now controls the voting machines and we get manufactured elections.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

[LittleClarkie]

45. They were ready -- with the wrong kind of lawyers

17000 lawyers, and as Madsen said, they're the wrong kind. Needed criminal lawyers out there.

But having his lawyers out there at all tells me they were trying to be on top of this. I think they thought they'd be recounting, not fighting such flagrant outright fraud. It is hard for your average human being to wrap his head 'round.

[glitch]

57. Kerry of all people was capable of wrapping his head around fraud

he knows all about the bush family business (BCCI, Iran/Contra etc). If he fumbled this (and I am giving him to Dec 13 to show us he didn't) I will be astounded.

[MelissaB]

60. How do we know that Kerry knows

there are many discrepancies in many states? If he or someone close to him isn't computer literate (or DU literate)---he may know very little.
There is a lot of information here at DU, but people who aren't plugged into DU don't know much. Am I wrong? I'm not going to presume to know how politicians know what is going on in the world when it isn't covered in the media, so... does anybody know how they do get their information?
It's too bad we can't email Kerry personally and know he reads it.

[VDHark]

63. No faith in Kerry

Very sorry to say... I just don't believe Kerry will step up.........that's my gut feeling. He can forget at 2008... who the hell would even consider supporting him after this mess? The Repubs knew he wouldn't do a damn thing... (I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so)

[LiberalAndProud]

17. And they will do better next time.

The difference between Ukraine and US? People protesting in the streets. Why were people protesting in the streets? LEADERSHIP.

[Me.]

21. Another Difference

Their leader didn't concede within 24 hours, in fact he didn't do so at all.

[Ladyhawk]

70. Exactly. We were ready to mass-protest for Kerry.

I would have gone into serious debt to get to Ohio to protest for Kerry. I'm very, very disappointed in him. I even wrote and asked him to send back my money since he wasn't using it like he promised.

Like TIA, I hope Kerry makes me eat my words, but I'm not counting on it. He left us. He abandoned us in the river and bullets are flying everywhere.

[merh]

15. Send him an email with this - send it to his congressional office

he needs to report to duty.

Do edit to read "and you are no or you're no Jack Kennedy"

I just want to thank you for all of your hard work. :yourock:

[Stand and Fight]

18. Controversial

But you know what? I like your style! Can't say that I agree, but I sure as hell like the way you deliver your message. Kudos to you!

[New Earth]

20. i think everyone here knows by now that i am a huge Kerry supporter

and I do still, in some way, still 'believe'.

BUT - in the last few days I have been getting more anxious. I'm not giving up on him just yet in all this - but I say if he doesn't come out and speak up within in the next week, I will assume he just doesn't care. I hope to god that is not the case. He has NOTHING TO LOSE. NOTHING. If he thinks coming out and taking a stand against the fraud and suppression is going to hurt his image or reputation moreso than just being apathetic - he needs to think again. If he ever wanted to be President, NOW is the time. His supporters in number dwindle and dwindle every day that goes by that he doesn't stand up and fight for them. I'm not afraid to say - if he doesn't take a stand NOW, he can forget about 2008.

[understandinglife]

27. "...if he doesn't take a stand NOW...." he will have done....

......exceptional harm to our democracy and any chance we might have to save the franchise from a chaotic and likely violent ordeal.

Everyone needs to forget about 2006 and 2008 and start thinking about what must be done now to halt the internal threat to our Constitution and any legitimacy we have as a democracy.

Senator Kerry and Edwards should be receiving 55+ million phone calls, emails, faxes, personal visits every day until they get the message -- it's on the line.

This ain't Hollywood; this ain't a computer game; this is the real-deal.

We either halt this farce and account what has happened, establish a fair mechanism to express our vote and know that it will count as we intend, or it's over.

"Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now" or get ready for a heaping dose of tyranny.

[New Earth]

28. i didn't mention 2008 because i'm looking forward to it

i meant, if that's what HE'S looking for, he can forget it at this point.

[LittleClarkie]

46. I'm not holding out much hope for getting "President Kerry" at this point

I just want the fraud and suppression exposed to its fullest extent.

We're more frustrated because we're hanging out here on the outside, getting snippets of information here and there. We have no freaking clue what is really going on. We are NOT in the know, people.

I will not be making pronouncements therefore as to what Kerry, Edwards et al should be doing at this very moment or "we'll all be doomed" ... or "the swift vets were right, he was a coward" ... or "he didn't care" ... "we want it more than he does."

Horsehockey.

I'm anxious too. But until I hear hard, and I do mean "hold up in a court of law" hard evidence, I don't WANT John Kerry to come out and "Gore" himself for the cause. I don't want him to waste whatever power he may have in the Senate to fight the Bush bastards for the next 4 years unless the effort will do something meaningful.

Unconditionally, even if I end up the last damned Kerry supporter on Earth, I'M NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

[Leilani]

22. Senator Edwards is currently on a "Farewell Tour"

Make of that what you will.

[politicasista]

26. Not a good sign. I guess

Wake up and fight!

[googly]

37. You are kidding right?

You don't have a link to that story do you? TIA.

[Leilani]

39. No, no link

but try Gen Discussion...Politics

was also posted on Yahoo.

[zann725]

42. Is he? Or is that what they're "calling it?"

Let's see how it ends up.
Because until January 6, it ain't over 'til it's over. And since "War Crimes" allegations have been filed against Bush & Co., it might not be over on Jan. 6 either.

I believe if it were REALLY over, Kerry would've REINFORCED it in his video 2 weeks ago, but instead he REINFORCED that votes were still being counted! The same thing his daughters did 3 days after that on "Larry King." And Jessie Jackson today.

And TWO MORE states were added to the 'recount' column today, so...
let's hang in there a few days or weeks more, okay?

[SmokingJacket]

52. "Farewell" to the SENATE and his state, is what he means. n/t

[oddtext]

24. i agree n/t

[Boswells_Johnson]

29. I can't help but think

that maybe the Democratic party leadership is laying low not just because of the circus the media would make of it, but also the threat of violence.

The Ukraine is a tinderbox at the moment, and that would likely be repeated in the US. Have you seen the way Republicans act when their honesty is questioned? I think all their supporters would act the same way if clear -and I mean clear- evidence was not in hand. If they can find it, I think Kerry et al. will speak out.

It would have to be a gradual process, too. A sudden shock like that would cripple your country.

[Chasing Dreams]

30. I just finished putting my toddler to bed,

and checking in with my teenager (yes, homework...he'd rather be surfing DU). I'm thinking that Kerry and the Dems are really letting this get away, that time is running out. And then I see this great post that is saying what I'm feeling tonight.

We are basically at a standoff. No matter what evidence is put forward (MOUNTAINS) -- the MSM will not cover this unless Kerry challenges the results first.

I don't know what Kerry and Edwards are thinking. But I'll tell them and the rest of the Democratic Leadership this: When the facts and spin die down, about 1/3 of Kerry voters just won't believe that a new fascist political/corporate/media order has arisen in the US. They'll believe the Party line no matter what. One-third will believe that the election was fixed, but will meekly go on with their lives and probably continue to vote Democratic. But the last third is going to go Ape shit and will no longer vote for Democrats at the top of the ticket. Some of us may leave the country to save our kids' freedom and lives, or our own.

JFK/DEM Party: I don't envy your position. If you challenge and aren't viewed sympathetically, you can't run again. If you do nothing, we will leave the Party in droves. Yeah, it seems like you're "damned if you and damned if you don't". But that calculus is wrong: you're certainly damned if you continue to wring your hands, but just might come out smelling like roses if you GO FOR IT.

[glitch]

55. This is it in a nutshell. Count me among your final third. The only option

they have is to fight the fraud.

Every other thing they do is an exercise in futility.

[fearnobush]

31. I too would love for Kerry to prove my feelings wrong.

I just got one of those Kerry thank you letters. No mention of counting the votes. He looks to have caved. His political career is over, at least in my head anyway.

[Blissfulbride]

36. Kerry is thinking about '08 but . . .

he won't have any support in '08 if he doesn't participate in this fraud investigation now. The people who worked for him and rallied voters for him will loose their confidence in his promises: i.e. "we will count every vote and make every vote count". He needs to fulfill this promise or he can forget about '08. Who will be there for him when he wasn't here for us.

I am an avid Kerry supporter -- he wasn't just an anti-shrub vote for me -- I really wanted him for president. I still do. But his credibility is starting to falter. He needs to take a public position on this issue.

If this isn't cleared up now -- what's the point of any democrat running in '08 -- the repugs will just do the same thing again.

I emailed Kerry a few days ago about this. Here is the response I got:
Dear Friend,

The Kerry - Edwards campaign appreciates your message and the hundreds of
thousands we received throughout the campaign. The thoughts that flowed
in from across the country helped us run a grassroots campaign that was
unprecedented in political history. We always worked to provide the
highest levels of accessibility to information and responsiveness
possible.

The final addresses by John Kerry and John Edwards to supporters at
Fanueil Hall are available on our website - www.johnkerry.com

Clicking on the bottom of this cover page will also take you back to the
regular JohnKerry.com page.

We sincerely thank you all for the encouragement, ideas, feedback and
support you provided throughout this campaign.

The Kerry - Edwards Team

Paid for and authorized by Kerry-Edwards 2004, Inc.

I also emailed him at his senate office weeks ago.

I don't even know if he's getting any of these messages. 

[Ladyhawk]

71. This was more ABB than Kerry anyway, I think.

Look at the huge fights among Dems during the primaries. Kerry won't get it again. Maybe we should make that clear?

[understandinglife]

40. What Senator Kerry could do; an historic opportunity - version 2.0

Simple summation:

The only 'winners' in a franchise of democracy are the stakeholders, the citizens. The ‘presumed winner' in the current election controls the scoreboard and that is just not how democracy works, as you well know.

Senator Kerry cannot truly 'win' no matter what the numbers in OH, or FL, or…, happen to be.

In my opinion, he and Senator Edwards have only one realistic option – declare the current election process invalid, demand a comprehensive audit and commit to one of two outcomes:

1. Audit shows Bush ‘won’, so be it;

2. Audit shows Senator Kerry and Edwards ‘won’, they will demand a re-vote using a fair and legitimate system and will abide by the outcome.

Current status:

To understand why I consider # 2 so important let’s reflect on a few realities.

What would it mean for Senator Kerry to "win" the current "election"?

What would he be winning? An HR and Senate controlled by Republicans; an intractable Iraq; a close to collapsing debt structure; a fanatical bunch of neocons who'd never let up; a voting system that he'd not be able to reform because of the intransigence he'd face from a Republican controlled Congress... ? He'd get to 2006 and face a disaster that would make Newt's ravage of the Democrats in 1996 look like child's play.

Thus, I suggest that Senator Kerry and Edwards take the type of courageous and selfless action that might just rescue the Nation.

They need to leap out of the path of the steamroller, quickly.

They need to jump to a 'moral/ethical' high-ground and call the steamroller exactly what it is -- a systematic attack on our Constitutional rights and our value proposition to all of humanity.

They and all of us who are dedicated to our Democracy should not waste another second trying to 'win' something that simply cannot be legitimately 'won.'

Senator Kerry and Edwards should lead from a position of selfless service to the franchise.

From that vantage, with that sudden jolt to everyone's attention, they might just convince millions of Americans to shout -- "Halt, prove to us our vote was counted as we intended. And, for all of us whom you prevented from voting, let us vote, now."

Rev Jackson got a bit of attention yesterday by saying 'fine with win and lose, but let's count first.’

Just imagine what would happen if Senator Kerry and Edwards said 'we have nothing to win, we have everything to lose if we first do not determine exactly what happened in this election and if we do not insist that those who were disenfranchised are permitted to express their vote before anyone claims to be the Next President of the United States of America.'

And, just imagine the power and credibility they would have if they first said - 'Even if the numbers swing in our favor, the current system is so bankrupt that we will insist on a re-vote, using a fair, legitimate process to ensure that whomever then ‘wins’ will truly have done so knowing that every eligible voter is confident that they had equivalent access to vote and confidence that their vote was counted exactly as they intended.’

Notes on previous version:

1. I had first offered a version of the proposal that suggested Senator Kerry and Edwards 'remove themselves from the ballot.' The spirit of why I suggested that move was understood by several who offered comments but most considered it not sufficiently effective. So, I thought more about how to achieve the goal of sending a selfless, democracy-first message to every citizen and decided they could do that by demanding the audit and, if they had achieved more EC votes than Bush, they would leverage that to achieve a much greater goal – force a re-vote using a system that would be legitimate beyond any reasonable doubt.

2. I'm probably very much off the mark here, and for the sake of our Democracy I hope my assessment of the situation is incorrect. But, based on what little I know, if I were Senator Kerry I would see nothing worth 'winning' in the current situation but an enormous, remarkable opportunity to save our Democracy by grabbing the nation and yanking it out of the path of the steamroller.

Thank you for taking the time to read my likely lame thoughts. And, thank you for all you are doing to try to save our Democracy.

“Hault, Audit, & Prove My Vote Counts, Now”

[politicasista]

41. They would if they didn't listen to their lousy campaign advisors.

[darthdemocrat]

58. I agree somewhat, but...

What would he be winning?

An HR and Senate controlled by Republicans;
That isn't at least partially the result of fraud?

an intractable Iraq;
I say Kerry gets our troops out sooner because he's not interested in occupying the country for Halliburton's benefit.

a close to collapsing debt structure;
Better for us to have him trying to fix it than shrub trying to make it worse so we'll hand them more power.

a fanatical bunch of neocons who'd never let up;
If Kerry wins, fraud is exposed... how well do these idiots do once they can't rig themselves into power?

a voting system that he'd not be able to reform because of the intransigence he'd face from a Republican controlled Congress...
Or -maybe- he gets help from Republicans who weren't helped by rigging and need to distance themselves.

He'd get to 2006 and face a disaster that would make Newt's ravage of the Democrats in 1996 look like child's play.
Many Republicans who voted to block paper trails can be crucified in 2006 if voting fraud were proven.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that your thoughts aren't reasonable. What I am saying is that a lot of this depends on whether future elections are rigged.

I think a Kerry presidency would be full of pleasant surprises. His take on Iraq has been politically correct, but I think there's a good chance he'd have used an event to say "well gee, I changed my mind now that this happened" when it's a politically expedient excuse.

I say the same goes for this election. When definitive evidence pops up, he can pretend he is absolutely shocked and then mouth off constantly about it.

I'd like to credit Kerry with some savvy, considering that he's managed to stay elected for a long time. I know so far it looks like he might be backing off. Let's keep in mind that Gore had nothing to lose with an outright challenge because it was a close election in the popular vote tally and he didn't have a senate term to finish if it didn't work. Kerry is headed back to work if he loses the election so there is risk in him publicly coming out about it. Does he want to be castrated on the ability to fight over any issue because he loses credibility when they spin him as a sore loser?

I don't think his silence means he doesn't understand how much is at stake with our crap elections system. I think it means he understands how politically effective his foes are and he's fighting smart. I think Kerry himself can't be the most effective voice to cry out over voting fraud yet and he knows it.

It's dire, yes. I say there is hope.

[understandinglife]

68. Very much appreciate your insights: here is the Fax I sent Sen Kerry today

.....and, I thought about every comment I've received in the past 36 hours and decided that, while much could happen if Senator Kerry happened to 'win' the current election, I think that if all he and others focused on is that 'win' that what truly matters at this moment might be irretrievable -- any sense of validity, of trust among those who 'lost.'

My letter to Senator Kerry is also tempered by the reality that had just one Senator stood in Jan 2001 with the several members of the HR and supported their petition our Nation would likely have suffered much less; our franchise would be significantly less endangered than it is today.

Fact is, that didn't happen and the risk of not taking a major stand for the franchise, for the people of this Nation, instead of merely trying to 'win' could accelerate our our path to tyranny.

Threats to our Constitutional rights require ultra-courageous action and while Jan 2001 was bad, where we are today, 30 Nov 2004 is way, way worse.

So, here is the letter that was fax'd this afternoon to Senator Kerry's DC and Boston offices. Copies were sent to several of his colleagues in the Senate, requesting that they read it and consider urging Senator Kerry to step forward and lead, not for the purpose of winning a farce of an election, but for the purpose of saving our Democracy, motivating our citizens toward the ideals that mean so much to most of us and that have served as a font of inspiration for others attempting to found and nurture their own democracies.

Thank you again for your thoughtful comments, and let us hope you are correct and that my assessment of the situation is far, far from accurate. If ever I would like to be incorrect, it is about how I view the state of our Nation.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Honorable Senator John F. Kerry
US Senate
BY FAX: [phone]

30 November 2004

Dear Senator Kerry,

Subject: W 2: Democracy O-ver ?

I ask you two questions:

1. Are we prepared to let that happen?

2. Who is the only person who can lead an effort to change the score to W out: Democracy, the Winner?

I can answer the first question only for myself, obviously. The answer is No.

In my opinion the only person who can lead all of us to the only victory that matters is you, Senator Kerry. I urge you to realize that fact and the fact that it is better to make a valiant attempt now rather than deluding ourselves that we are going to get another chance. Because, foul ball, strike 1 was 2000; foul ball, strike 2 was 2002; foul-tip was 2 Nov 2004, and we can't wait for the next pitch for several obvious reasons.

Our opponent truly controls the scoreboard, owns the field, and has been showing our Democracy the exit since 9 Dec 2000. We must refuse to leave; we must insist that the third pitch was no different than 1 and 2 -- spitballs.

Thus, Senator Kerry we all need to focus.

We must assert that the only 'winners' in a franchise of democracy are supposed to be the stakeholders, the citizens, who irrespective of what happened to their candidate, got to swing at legal pitches and didn't have the score changed from 3 to 0, and reported as a mandate.

Senator Kerry you cannot truly 'win' no matter what the numbers in OH, or FL, or..., happen to be.

Why do I say that without reservation -- well, let's reflect on what would it mean for you to "win" the current "election"?

What exactly would you and our Democracy be winning?

An HR and Senate controlled by Republicans; an intractable Iraq; a close to collapsing debt structure; a fanatical bunch of neocons who'd never let up; a voting system that you would not be able to reform because of the intransigence you would face from a Republican controlled Congress; a media that has shown zero interest in finding the truth, in defending the disenfranchised, and on and on.

You and your fellow patriots would arrive at 2006 and face a disaster that would make Newt's ravage of the Democrats in 1994 look like child's play.

In my opinion, you and Senator Edwards have only one realistic option - declare the current election process invalid, demand a comprehensive audit and commit to one of two outcomes:

1. Audit shows Bush 'won,' so be it;

2. Audit shows you 'won,' then you demand a re-vote using a fair and legitimate system and you abide by the outcome.

I am suggesting that you and Edwards take the type of courageous and selfless action that might just rescue our democracy franchise.

You need to call the spitball for what it was in 2000, and in 2002 and on 2 Nov 2004 -- a systematic attack on our Constitutional rights and our value proposition to all of humanity.

You, along with all of us who are dedicated to our Democracy, should not waste another second trying to 'win' something that simply cannot legitimately be 'won'; the other team not only breaks the rules, they control the scoring process, the umpires and the media.

Senator Kerry you must lead from a position of selfless service to the franchise. From that vantage, with that sudden jolt to everyone's attention, you will have earned the moral and patriotic authority required to convince millions of Americans to shout -- "Halt, prove to us our vote was counted as we intended. And, for all those who were prevented from voting, let them vote, now.

Rev Jackson got a bit of attention yesterday by saying 'fine with win and lose, but let's count first.'

Just imagine what would happen Senator if you said 'we have nothing to win, we have everything to lose if we first do not determine exactly what happened in this election and if we do not insist that those who were disenfranchised are permitted to express their vote before anyone claims to be the Next President of the United States of America.'

And, just imagine the power and credibility you would have if you stood before all the Nation, at Independence Hall in Philadelphia and committed pledged yourself to this commitment:

'Even if the numbers swing in our favor, the current system is so bankrupt that we will insist on a re-vote, using a fair, legitimate process to ensure that whomever then 'wins' will truly have done so knowing that every eligible voter is confident that they had equivalent access to vote and confidence that their vote was counted exactly as they intended.'

Senator Kerry history is happening and it is a broad, black stroke being painted over our Constitution, our heritage and our credibility -- if you do not lead now, in a way no less dramatic and courageous as the Founders, as Lincoln and as FDR, our franchise is over.

I will be there next to you; I will take as many hits as I can withstand to protect you; I will die at your side and, at 57 years of age and having witnessed as an MD exactly what death is, I assure you, these are not idol or idealistic words. This is a commitment from someone who fully recognizes that the we either halt the next pitch or what was called "America" is no longer a democracy franchise.

Awaiting orders, Senator Kerry.

xxxxxxx

"Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

[malatesta1137]

43. I posted your words, exactly,

but on Nov 3.

Kerry was able to fool all of us with that 'reporting for duty' garbage.

He's a true coward.

The evidence of fraud ABOUNDS. Good-bye America.

[LittleClarkie]

44. It's her fault. If she didn't want me to do it she shoulda fought harder.

Truth, we don't know jack about what's going on out there. He's given his full support to the investigation in Ohio according to Jackson. His people met with Madsen the investigative journalist during the weekend and lent support. We have the video where he makes odd statements about "not matter the outcome of the election" and "the votes WILL be counted.

What AWOL? Where? Dude, it's progressing. Right now, it's all circumstantial evidence. What's he supposed to do, have a public hissy fit? "Gore" himself so we'll feel better? Would that be the most efficent thing to do right now? I don't think so. I think he'd get in the way, because the press would follow him in and turn this into a Florida-style circus.

[anamandujano]

47. truth, could you check these numbers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=91921&mesg_id=91921

[RubyCat]

49. .

[Bread and Circus]

51. I'm glad you said it because I feel the same damn way.

[ElementaryPenguin]

54. I quite agree!

This is worse! Kerry's letting democracy be destroyed on HIS watch!! I am really stunned and PISSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dzika]

61. "...you've literally got to beat the shit out of John Kerry..."

From: Washington Square News
Issue date: 11.29.2004

http://www.nyunews.com/news/campus/8429.html

Kerry aide pans nasty Bush run

by Jesse Greenspan
Contributing Writer

-snip-
Trbovich has known Kerry for more than 30 years, he said, and
even worked as communications director of Kerry's failed 1972
congressional campaign. He said the Massachusetts senator has
more integrity and intelligence than almost anyone else he
knows. He added, however, that unlike Bill Clinton, Kerry's
intellect is at stronger than his political ear.

"Excuse my language, but you've literally got to beat the shit
out of John Kerry sometimes to get him where you want him to
go," he said. •

[unpossibles]

62. well, one potential problem with holding the vote again

is that how many people (maybe on both sides) would recant and vote differently? How many Kerry supporters has he maybe already lost, especially the 'undecided voters' and moderates? Would holding a second election possibly be even more damaging?

[TruthIsAll]

65. Surely, you jest.

A new election, by paper ballot, can have only one result.

A massive Kerry win.

[politicasista]

72. How would this happen?

[TruthIsAll]

64. Thanks, John, for joining the fray in Ohio.

That's one small step for you.
That's one large leap for democracy.

[Chasing Dreams]

67. Kerry is not there, yet.

I agree that this is a good sign, but he still hasn't reported for duty with the big Press Conference Bash.

I still think your original post here was/is right on, TruthIsAll, and am not backing down from my earlier post (#30 - check it out). GOING FOR IT means going all out.

Reality Strikes: gotta run and put the toddler to bed...back later.

[Hekate]

66. Excellent analogy

Kerry's concession, his silence, and his campaign's apparent neglect of the vote fraud info that DUers and others tried to get to him for months BEFORE the election -- all this has had me utterly baffled, angry, and in deep mourning for our democracy.

I am encouraged by the energy on this board. I am encouraged by the Greens and Independents who are plugging along in Ohio. I am encouraged by the news that Kerry has finally and at last joined the fray in Ohio.

But at this late date, with the Repubs and their red-state supporters gleefully tromping all over any notion that Dems will ever have a voice again, about the most I can allow myself to hope for is a massive stink and unshakable stain on the Bush presidency.

John Kerry has, at last report, $51 million left in his campaign chest. I feel as if that's money that came to him from all us progressives out here in America, money that we diverted from Dean and the other candidates after the primaries were over, money most of us would not have given to him or the DNC if we had not first been energized by our disgust for Bush and our belief in other Dem candidates who came forward in 2003.

It takes a lot for me to give up on a Democrat. But I really want to know what the hell John Kerry thinks he's doing with the mission we entrusted him with and the money we gave him to do it with?

But God and the Goddess know I am putting forth my own little faith-based initiative here and praying that the election in Ohio will be certified in favor of Kerry. Please.

Hekate

[Ladyhawk]

69. Agreed, TIA. You know you'll be flamed, but you're right. n/t

[Ladyhawk]

73. So what say we harass the hell out of Kerry?

TIA, you're very respected here. Could you start a "harass Kerry" thread with contact info? I'll e-mail and call him three times a day or more. Anyone else with me?

(I think the thread needs to be started by a long-time DUer who is well respected.)

LH

[Chasing Dreams]

74. Count me in. n/t

[TruthIsAll]

75. I think he's moving. Cautiously, but he's moving. Look at Ohio.

Things are breaking. I feel it. Don't you?

Pretty soon, all hell should break loose. It had better.

But I have good vibes. Visualize. Visualize.

[Chasing Dreams]

76. I'm looking at Ohio

and Madsen's story may have legs yet.

Thanks for the good vibes, and I'll visualize too. I can see the press conference now: Kerry, Edwards, Clinton (I'm not sure which one:)), Dean, and the rest of the Democratic leadership; the academics; and Bev, Greg, and Co. GO, GO, GO FOR IT.

[Ladyhawk]

78. God, I hope you're right, TIA.

I don't care as much about a Kerry presidency as I do exposing fraud, if it occurred. We might survive four years of * and even his SCOTUS appointments, but we can't survive the end of accurate voting.

It might not hurt to encourage Kerry. Mail him. Thank him for what he's started to do and then ask him to break down the walls of hell. I may do that anyway.

[IndyPriest]

79. You're making me dizzy!

TIA, I've followed all of your math posts (and I can even follow most of them, you write well!) And nobody has put in more or better work. But godamnit man, your emotions are up and down like a yo-yo. Which, I suppose, gets to me because mine are too. Maybe I should just get used to this for the next two months and just find some better drugs!

[Imagevision]

77. Kerry-Edwards finally join Ohio legal prceedings for recount

Cobb asks Bush administration to provide non-partisan support as well for the recount effort! Great news!

From the Cobb website, here: http://www.votecobb.org/press/2004/nov/pr2004-11-30b.ph...

<snip>
Statement From the Green Party Presidential Campaign Concerning John Kerry's Intervention in Ohio Recount Court Case
Kerry-Edwards campaign files papers in Ohio to intervene in legal proceedings in defense of Green Party presidential candidate David Cobb, Libertarian Michael Badnarik

Ohio — Today, attorneys representing the Kerry-Edwards campaign filed papers in Delaware County, Ohio to intervene in legal proceedings in defense of Green Party presidential candidate David Cobb, Libertarian Michael Badnarik and their legal counsel, the National Voting Rights Institute, who are seeking a recount of all votes cast for president in the Ohio 2004 general election.