A serious question here - Will the election get overturned

[bearfan454]

due to Ohio or Fla ? Will even one Senator stand up and contest the results on Dec 13 ? I have been watching, reading, emailing reps, donating, hoping, and praying. Bev Harris and BBV are super. I hope we aren't getting all excited and then end up with a giant letdown. Will this fraud be exposed nationally and will Kerry end up being the President ? Well ?

[rodeodance]

1. my gut says no overtuning --but for me--the exposure of fraud is good

at this point---would like to see some high0ups get exposed also--like Blackwell!!!

[sabra]

2. I don't know

but I do hope so... However, in either case, you should hold your head up high for the efforts you did ("I have been watching, reading, emailing reps, donating").

- sabra
A fellow Bears fan

[bearfan454]

5. Thanks sabra

If Kerry can save our Democracy, he will be right along side my other hero here:

[skids]

37. NOBODY KNOWS and thank you.

Thank you for being one of the very few people that post to internet blogs and forums who is not afraid to say those three and a half, simple little words that carry such honesty: "I don't know."

While I appreciate the spirit of all those who say that they know it will happen, the truth is, I doubt even the most well studied political scientist knows at this point. There may be people that know, but they would have to kill you if they told you.

[sabra]

38. Thanks for the kind words n/t.

[JaneDoughnut]

3. No.

But remember, the fraud that took place this year was an expansion on 2000's pilot test. If we don't clean it up now, it will be even more massive next time around. The chance at overturning the election is not the important part.

[bearfan454]

12. If we don't clean it up now

Electronic vote fraud will produce 60 repuke Senators in the midterms and they will steamroll their facist agenda over us.

[bemis12]

4. So far....

The election isn't likely to be contested, much less oveturned, unless some real proof is found.

Despite all the "statistical anomalies" that have been reporte dhere, the minimal amounts of recounting that have been done have supported the election results. I thought we had a decent chance in NH, but it appears that the count supports the results there.

Unless the Ohio recount turns up something concrete, then no, it won't be overturned.

[Kelvin Mace]

6. Dupe deleted

software stuttered.

[Kelvin Mace]

7. Barring some earthshattering find

it is unlikely. While a judge in Ohio *might* order something, it will be overturned by the OH Supreme Court (mostly Republican appointees). If it is appealed to the US Supreme Court, well, I think we know how that will turn out.

The word fraud has been thrown out quite a bit, but very little evidence of the sort that would stand up in court has been presented. And yes, some experts may get up and testify that exit poll data indicates something is wrong, but that is not the same as evidence of fraud.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
http://www.plan9.org
http://www.blackboxvoting.com

[bunny planet]

22. I've heard lots of people say, the fed Supreme court would never take

this case again, this time Bush v. Kerry. There are too many on the court thinking of retiring and wanting to repair their legacies which were badly damaged when they heard Bush v Gore. They also may be somewhat dismayed at what * has wrought with their blessings. Also their clerks outed the conservative justices in Vanity Fair, talking about their behind the scenes bias and determination to select *. Just don't think it'll fly this time with the Supremes, Renquist or no Renquist. It's the Ohio Supreme court that'll definitely throw the monkey wrench to the monkey. Any clue whether they are moderate Republicans or not? Some mod Rs hate * more than Dems and libs do.

[Kelvin Mace]

34. Even if the are moderate, they are Republicans

And if John McCain will stand on stage and kiss Bush's ass and dance as little monkey dance on command in the name of "party loyalty", I wouldn't put too much hope on the moderates.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
http://www.plan9.org
http://www.blackboxvoting.com

[bunny planet]

35. not putting too much hope on them, just asking what species of Republican

they are.:eyes:

[righteous1]

33. A lot of anectdotal evidence

but very little if any hard eveidence of significant fraud, machine malfunction, or vote suppression. The bar is much higher in a court of law then in the popular venue. a 5R 2D Supreme Court doesn't help either

[Quakerfriend]

8. I believe

that if we get the masses out in the streets there is a chance that it will be overturned........a good chance. Just my gut feeling. If we do not protest this way, I guess it will come out within 2 years. However, the chance for impeachment will not be there with the Repugs dominating all. Keep up the hope.:D

[BlueOhio]

9. What i fear

is that every time we point out an anomaly or something like that, all we are doing is showing them where they need to clean it up next time.

[saracat]

31. Oooo. Good point. I hadn't considered that!

[ivorysteve]

10. Related question: What if Ohio results were overturned but ...

... the Republicans then moved to throw the whole Ohio election out as invalid (on the grounds that fraud had been revealed), to prevent them from losing the national election? Would that be possible? Not very moral, of course, but legally possible?

[Senator]

14. Sure...

...they can challenge and disallow any electors they choose to on Jan 6th.

Would the nation stand for such naked treason? I would hope not, but who knows what tune the trained media monkeys will be dancing to at that point.

[newyawker99]

36. Hi ivorysteve!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Verve]

39. The Dominoes start to fall!

If Ohio is invalidated, the media will be all over it. This will lead to looking easily into other states, a.k.a. Florida, Nevada, New Mexico,etc.

Welcome to D.U. Ivorysteve!:hi:

[Senator]

11. We MUST take action

Here is a Declaration of Intent that we all need to demand that our "leaders" sign on to.

It's one thing to sit on your hands (ala Jan. 6th 2001) while no one is watching. But it's quite another to be put on the spot to do your duty, or fail to, and then have to look in the mirror every morning.

.

[mbee]

13. All Kerry voters in Ohio need to do this - they need to

demonstrate in the streets that they did not vote for George Bush.
If they stand in the streets they can be counted. You need to get the word out to them to demand that their votes be counted and do it publicly. Can DU Ohio people get the word out big time for the demonstration on Saturday. I can't emphasize this strongly enough!

[pgh_dem]

25. Dec 4 Rally

I'm going, but a little bummed that Rev Jackson won't speak til the later 6-9 pm meeting. I thought he'd be there for the 1-4 thing. Nothing against the people who are speaking 1-4 (really psyched to hear Greg Palast), just thought Rev Jackson would lend a little more 'star power', y'know?

[Catherine Vincent]

15. I don't think it will be overturned. Too late, imo. He stole another one.

But I do hope the fraud is exposed to the point that the media will HAVE to report it thus President Dumbass being labeled illegitimate once more.

[meisje]

16. Not a chance in Hell

[libertypirate]

17. More Serious Question -- Will someone go to jail?

People stop doing bad things only when they have to pay consequences... These assholes have to pay for this, more than anything else...

[damntexdem]

18. No.

No matter what evidence shows up when. The airwaves will be filled with spin -- and Congress and the SCOTUS with a GOP majority.

But it's still important to expose the bastards.

[Solitaire]

19. If the votes are re-counted and Kerry wins,

it will have to be over-turned.

With all the fraud taking place, perhaps there is a way that this will happen.

Would Ohio citizen's stand for their vote not counting in the Presidential election? I would hope not.

[tridim]

20. When the Ohio fraud is exposed in the mainstream media

Even if it doesn't include "hard evidence", and the Ohio electors still vote for the apparent loser (Bush), all hell will break loose.

I mean, what does the term "hard evidence" even mean these days? We have hard evidence of the Plame leak being initiated by the WH, but according to officials it's no big deal. There are hundreds of similar examples.

[tinrobot]

21. No... but vote fraud should be Democrat's #1 issue

If we don't put a stop to this NOW, we will continue to lose seats. The more seats we lose, the less we can do about stopping it. It is a very slippery slope.

[theboss]

23. Are you actually excited?

Then you are going to be let down.

[bearfan454]

26. Yes.

I am excited that the votes of millions of people will actually count.

[goldengreek]

24. The selection of Bush won't be overturned.

The United States stopped being a republic in 2000, and it's now in control of religious fanatics who make up about a third of the population. These are mostly Mormons, fundamentalist Christians, and people I call "religious capitalists." They'll start a shooting war if they don't get what they want, and under Bush's leadership they are sitting on a gigantic pile of WMD's.

Slow and steady will win this race.

[bearfan454]

27. kick n/t

[understandinglife]

28. "I Declare The Election Invalid: Someone I do not know .....

...was prevented from voting."

Peace.

[politicasista]

29. I would like to believe yes but

with the GOP controlling everything, I don't know. Bush will never concede.

[Marnieworld]

30. yes

except congress will contest the results on January 6th not Dec 13th. The 13th is when the electoral college meets and votes. Yep it's all gonna get crazy within the next 2 weeks.

[bones_7672]

32. No because the GLIB recount ....

will not be as stringent at the provisional ballot count. For the recount they'll just run the punchcards thru the machine and tally the electronic votes and that's that. No county, state of fed court will stop the OH vote, no member of congress will intervene.