A few things to say about film snobbery

[DerekG]

I always aimed a little higher than my peers: when all the other 12 year olds were obsessed with Wes Craven's "Scream", I was devouring the Dutch version of "The Vanishing"; when the other high school denizens were intrigued by Kevin Smith's "Dogma", I found my solace in Bergman's "The Seventh Seal."

I pride myself on my good taste; so I'd like to say a few things to all the film snobs I see frequenting the arts cinemas across America.

1. "Jaws" is as perfect--and timeless--a film as Coppola's "The Godfather."

2. Disney's "Beauty and the Beast" is as sublime as Cocteau's.

3. Political correctness should not stand in the way of enjoying "Gone With the Wind."

4. Yes, there is Bad "Star Wars" (ROTJ, TPM, AOTC), but there is also Good "Star Wars" (ANH, ESB).

5. Our action maestros (James Cameron, George Miller) should be distinguished from the hacks (Emmerich/Devlin; Bay/Bruckheimer).

6. Tom Cruise can be annoying as hell, but he can occasionally turn in a good performance ("Born on the Fourth of July", "Magnolia", "Collateral").

7. "Return of the King" deserved every Oscar it received.


Flame away!

[billie_]

1. i have only 1 thing to say-

i like your Wellstone avatar ...

and hate yer taste in movies :)

[Mojambo]

2. I see nothing there that is particularly controversial.

Certainly nothing flameworthy.

I'm not a big Cameron guy and I would say he is indeed prone to hackery but other than that, right on.

[billie_]

3. hey Mojambo....did u see David Cross tonight?

i wasn't by a TV (or should i say, Televison, since, TV is a nickname and televison is no friend of mine)

apparently,he was on comedy central and introduced Modest Mouse and called them "timid turtle" hahah

btw, have u see the new show (is it Bob goes to the Mayor?) on Adult Swim

http://bobanddavid.com/

[Mojambo]

4. I haven't been able to catch the new show

I hear very good things though.

I had no idea he was even going to be on Comedy Central. What was it for? I was at work, but luckily Comedy Central re-runs everything they show a LOT.

Timid Turtle... lol.

[billie_]

5. i don't know, someone posted asking what it was and i was not near a tv

yeah, "timid turtle" hahah, david cross is the best :)

[Khephra]

9. It's "Tom Goes to the Mayor"

http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/ShowMainServlet/showid-31027/

IMBD doesn't have David involved, just The Bob. ;-) But they could be behind in their info.

A lot of old Mr.Show people are doing voices for the show and some surprise appearances as well. Last week I was shocked to see Jeff Goldblum doing a character.

You can also catch Cross playing Happy Time Harry in two Aqua Team Hunger Force episodes.

[McKenzie]

6. forgive me father for I have flamed

actually, I haven't seen most of the films you cite. I do, however, agree that there is a tendency to be elitist when discussing film. Anything that is not "serious" tends to be rubbished.

A good parallel is how Jack Vettriano's artwork is treated over here. The art mafia have variously described his work as "art pornography" and "populist".

http://www.vettriano-art.com/

What does piss me off bigtime is how a lot of the discussion revolves around US film. There is so much more around but it hardly ever gets discussed as far as I can see. (your opening comments are refreshing coz they relate to non-US stuff) Mutter, grumble, whinge...shuffles off still muttering...bloody Hollywood film system, lack of independents...grumble...

ps The Seventh Seal is sublime.

edit: context

[Bridget Burke]

7. Mostly, I agree....

I've enjoyed watching "Gone With The Wind" in the past. Last time I tried, the scene with the Carpetbaggers telling the freedmen how they'd get the right to vote made me turn off the TV. This was just after the 2000 election & I had a visceral reaction--not "political correctness". But it's a masterful piece of storytelling & I'll probably try again.

And my biggish (oldish) TV lost its color a couple of months ago. I've been considering a replacement--a "couple of hundred dollars" model will work well--but hadn't gone to the trouble. However, the ROTK-EE will finally motivate me.

A well-prepared meal of simple food can be quite as pleasant as the latest gourmet fad.

[Feathered Fish]

8. Heh

I agree with points 1, 4 and 7. The rest not so much. I am a movie snob too.

[Forkboy]

10. WTF...no Spongebob?

:evilgrin:

[Kire]

21. so you mean Sponge-snob?

nyuck nyuck nyuck

[AgadorSparticus]

11. i can't believe you didn't mention The Last Samurai. i think that was

tom's best performance. it was a stunning movie.

[AngryLizard]

12. Tom's best performance was in Magnolia

He was frightening as hell in that one. His second best performance was in Jerry McGuire.

Samurai was nothing but "Dances with Swords". White guy moves into native population and learns about honor and nature, etc., helps native population to survive, native population is forever grateful. Yawn.

[jobycom]

15. Yeah, but

that wasn't Cruise's fault. He did a very good job in Samurai, as did several of the actors. I agree that is was cliche, and the "glorious defeat with honor" ending is so trite it undermined a movie that had some potential even that late in the film.

I'm a Cruise fan. I believe that every film I've seen him in has been better because he was in it, and the ones that failed did so in spite of him, not because of him. That might be a sad commentary on his ability to choose roles-- though I don't think so. I think he chooses interesting roles, but sometimes the director or edito fail on him-- like Eyes Wide Shut, for instance.

Just my opinion.

[NashVegas]

23. I Totally Agree

It was the only performance he's ever turned in where he didn't seem to be playing the role of "Tom Cruise as a Guy Who ..."

I would also give him props for Rain Man, though. Just not as much.

[Emboldened Chimp]

26. No way - Watanabe blew Cruise off the screen...

[Chovexani]

13. No flames here dude

I agree with every word you say. :toast: (Except about Gone With the Wind, I hate that movie not because of PC reasons but because it's just fucking cheesy. :P)

[jobycom]

14. Damn, you lost me on 7

I agree with your points, except 2, which I'm just a touch iffy on, and 7.

ROTK was long, overdirected, disjointed, badly plotted, badly directed, had unbelievable computer-generated effects, and was scored seemingly only to get really loud in the worst parts of the film.

Other than that, the film was okay. Casting was brilliant, at least. Customing was nice. Any award aside from casting was given because of the business side of the film, not the film-making.

IMO.


I'm not a film snob, either. I even loved Postman, Messenger and Waterworld, and am proud to admit it.

[AngryLizard]

16. The world's most perfect movie was "Raiders of the Lost Ark"

Discuss.

[derbstyron]

17. I agree. And I'm a Literature/Creative Writing major and looove art films

[ExclamationPoint]

18. AGREE!

Especially with Gone With the Wind (I love it's drama, and I think liberals should pride themselves at looking at both sides of the story.) Harriet Beecher Stowe is my ancestor, and I'm a radical liberal democrat, but I still love the film. The return of the king was great (I just got the box set!) and I regard it as a work of art.

[PallasAthena]

19. Film snobs are OK by me..... I proudly consider myself to be one.

However, I must disagree with your comment about Disney's "Beauty and the Beast." While some Disney animated films are as classic and wonderful as any live-action ones, I personally considered "Beauty" to be one of the minor works.

Your American "action maestros" are fine, but you don't go back very far ... what about John Huston, John Sturges, Samuel Fuller, Sam Peckinpah, and (currently) Tony Scott?

[Steely_Dan]

22. and...Fantasia (sp)

Disney's best work - IMO - was Fantasia.

-P

[PallasAthena]

25. Yes, you could make a case for that one, although I never personally

cared much for the ballet-dancing hippos and ostriches.
All of the original Disney feature-length animated films had such beautiful and rich artwork -- the backgrounds, lighting, shading and shadows -- they really don't make 'em like that anymore.

[MemphisTiger]

20. Agree with you on Tom Cruise

Just saw Collateral, one of the best movies I've seen in a while. Jamie Fox is going to be as big as Tom Cruise. He is the real deal, but I haven't seen Ray, yet.

[NashVegas]

24. 1. Jaws Is Not Perfect

As a movie, it's perfect, but as a film it's totally lacking real subtext/subplot. Oooh, Roy is afraid of water. Ooh.

2. The measure of art is what it inspires. Cocteau inspired a Glass opera. Disney inspired Burger King tie-ins.

5. Cameron has been doing nothing but emotional manipulation, avec pretty explosions, since T2. Bruckheimer, hack or not, gave us the wonderfully guilty pleasure of PotC. "What have you done for me lately?"

Otherwise, not too much to argue about :)

[Emboldened Chimp]

27. Flame Time!

I'm kidding, I won't flame. But I do have a few responses...

1. Jaws can never be compared to the Godfather, no matter how fleeting or superficial the comparison. The Godfather is much higher up in the stratosphere in artistic merit.

2. I never saw "Beauty and the Beast", so I cannot comment. But I am no fan of Disney, so I gather that I never will see it.

3. Forget political correctness, I won't watch "Gone With the Wind" again because it's long and boring.

4. Return of the Jedi is proving to be a much better movie with each new episode released. By the time Return of the Sith comes out, ROTJ will be fondly remembered.

5. James Cameron is a hack, though he can disguise it better than most. A hack can be best described as a filmmaker who makes one or two good films, then cruises on his reputation while making one crapfest after another. After T1 and T2, the rest of the Cameron canon is shit—yes, this includes “Titanic”.

6. Cruise is shaping up to be a better actor than his previous performances would indicate, especially after his turn in "Collateral". I would beg to differ on "Magnolia", a pretentious dry heave of a movie that got way more credit than it deserved. P.T. Anderson qualifies for hackdom (see number 5).

7. Return of the King did not win Oscars; the entire series did. I knew when the first was snubbed that LOTR would take everything once the third was released, provided Peter Jackson didn't screw it up. He made three great movies (the only flaw being the long ending of the third) and was properly rewarded. In reality, it's one big movie, just as the books were originally one.

[kwassa]

28. GWTW is a really bad movie ....

Derek says:
"3. Political correctness should not stand in the way of enjoying "Gone With the Wind."

It doesn't. Intelligence does, though, as Scarlett O'Hara has to be the most unlikable movie heroine of all time. No redeeming characteristics, no ability to learn from the tragedy around her, selfish and pointless. The only plausible explanation is that men swarmed around her for her daddy's money, as it certainly wasn't her sparkling personality.

[henslee]

29. Cruise in Born on 4th. -- Saw it again. Man, thats a bad fake moustache

[henslee]

30. Beyond Mad Max tril., Miller is not so action-ee. Not more than Ridley

Scott who really does do action but also tells a rounded, character based story at the same time. (last one being Black Hawk Down... Thelma and Lousie was awesome. Also, Ridley blows Cameron away in terms of sophistication.