"There are no coincidences."

[raccoon]

I've heard people say that in church and in 12-step group meetings.

I have to say I have a serious problem with this.

I can see how somebody might say that, if for instance, they needed
a job and just happened to run into Mr. Big, President of XYZ company, who just happened to need a secretary/janitor/security guard, and Mr. Big hired them.

On the other hand, though, what if the same person gets mugged--or worse? If "there are no coincidences," well...

[Az]

1. The two primary things that concern people

Are understanding and control. Ideally we want both of them for ourselves. Barring that we want to know that there is someone or something benevalent that has them. And even in the absense of that there are those that believe that there are malicious forces that posess these qualities. But it all relates back to the simple desire to understand and control our own environment.

Thus when people say there are no coincidents they are just saying something is in control and they wish it were them.

[raccoon]

2. That's a good way of putting it, Az. nt

[unpossibles]

3. I see what you mean, but I look at it this way: that "bad" things and "good"

things can happen, and both contribute to who we are. Trust me, I have gone through some things that I would wish on no one (well, almost no one...), things that were horrible at the time, yet I would not be who I am today were it not for those moments.

Reminds me of one of my favorite stories:

A man's favorite horse runs away and his neighbor says, "that's bad" and the man responds, "it is too soon to say." Eventually, the horse returns and brings 5 wild horses with it. The neighbor says, "that's good" and the man responds, "it is too soon to say."

One day, the man's eldest son falls and breaks his leg while trying to tame the wild horses. The neighbor says, "that's bad" but the man responds, "it is too soon to say." That week, the Emperor sends his army through the village conscripting young men to fight in the war, but the man's son cannot go because of his broken leg. The neighbor says, "that's good" but the man responds, "it is too soon to say."


The point being that we don't truly know if an external event is "good" or "bad" as it always has other consequences.


But, in agreement with you, I think one of our evolutionary/survival advantages is the ability to see patterns in things, and to be able to make predictions based on those patterns. A side effect is it's easy for some to see patterns in everything (a la conspiracy theories), some valid, some coincidental. We will of course, tend to make things fit into our patterns, thus "fate" is a culmination of all of the "good" things that happen to us (or bad if you're a pessimist I guess).

[valerief]

4. Cancer isn't a coincidence. Toxins cause it.

[Odin2005]

5. IIRC most cancers have "natural" causes.

Like from the radiation from the Carbon-14 Potassium-40, damage caused by oxygen-generated free radical molecules, UV light, etc.

[valerief]

8. Oh, I thought industrial waste caused the leukemia clusters in children

all over the country.

[Odin2005]

9. I ment as a whole, not specific types.

Of course there are specific types of cancer that are caused mostly by toxins.

[valerief]

16. Okalee dokalee.

[charles22]

6. Maybe stay out of church and 12 step.

They tend to be authoritarian institutions.

[raccoon]

7. I've had mostly good experiences with 12-step groups, not so

with church, until I found the one I'm going to now.

But sometimes 12-step groups can be toxic, too.

[Odin2005]

10. People who think there are no coincidences tend to be either...

1. Fundies

2. Conspiracy nuts

[Brentos]

11. Or....

Fundatmentalist conspiracy nuts!

"God had that commie-loving liberal baby-killer JFK killed to hide the UFO cover-up that would disprove Noah's Flood!" :-)

[Odin2005]

12. LOL!

[JerseygirlCT]

13. There *are* coincidences.

I agree with you.

It's easy, and sometimes comforting, to attribute good things to fate or God, or some external, ordered reason.

And while I don't discount that possibility -- miracles do happen, wonderful things do occur, and who knows? God's hand may be there.

But I don't see a puppet=master in the sky at work. If there is a reason for everything that happens, understanding or grasping that reason is well beyond us as human beings.

I think sometimes stuff just happens.

[Goblinmonger]

14. There are coincidences all the time, they just

aren't worth noting. I'm eating popcorn right now and probably somebody else on DU is, too. Who gives a shit. I have a van dyke and I'm an atheist. Popular depictions of satan have him with a van dyke. Yippee.

The problem is that when coincidences happen that actually mean something to someone, they can't possibly just be chance like the rest of the world, they must REALLY mean something because those people, unlike the rest of us, aren't unimportant.

[kwassa]

15. "Everything has a reason"

and "there are no coincidences" are common sayings, not specific to either churches or 12-step groups. In 12-step, the idea is to LOOK for reasons, which is helpful to get members to look at the consequences of their actions.

Ultimately, everything has a reason, but it may be a trivial reason or unknowable reason. There are indeed coincidences, but the activity to seek reasons for happenings can be useful.

Of course, many things happen for no apparent reason at all.

[Lerkfish]

17. that's a flip way of saying that things should have some sort of meaning.

I don't think its unusual for man as a species to search for meaning. Heck, science is a search for meaning, and unified field theory is another way of saying there aren't any coincidences, that all things are interconnected and dependent.

Where some people get hung up is when their search for overall meaning of the universe becomes an obsessive search for meaning in minute trivial things.
For example, some christian might extrapolate "God created the universe" to "God found me this parking space". Obviously, God has better things to do than find you a parking space. However, if he created the universe, he would be a proponent of life and nurturing that life IN GENERAL, but not specificially enought to find you a parking space.

I refer to these people as "scale-challenged". If God cares about them, he MUST care about every little thing they care about.