The Missionary Spirit

[bryant69]

Would you like to bring your fellow discusion board participants around to your point of view?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Zensea]

1. Poll biased - no slot for agnostic n/t

[bryant69]

2. If you are an agnostic who thinks God probably doesn't exist

than vote with the Atheists. If you are an Agnostic who thinks that God probably does exist vote with the Theists.

Bryant

[Zensea]

3. That is a misunderstanding of the agnostic position ...

...which is that there is no way to know one way or the other if God exists.
If you think God probably doesn't exist, you are an atheist, if you think God probably does exist you are a theist or deist.
So, I still think that there is not a slot for agnostics.

[bryant69]

5. Guess I'll just have to live with that.

Bryant

[Finder]

7. How do agnostics worship?

[YOY]

27. Miserably

:rofl:

In all honesty I've assumed most agnostics to be either those of a childlike curiosity and admittance to the sophomoric limitations of me or like me: completely disappointed in their own faith and simply going through the motions because the tradition of it still remains and the hollow comfort and recognition that the other religions are just as clueless and have just as much validity and lack thereof.

I still go to church every now and then...it's like wearing an old sweater full of memories but has a load of holes in it and no longer keeps you warm. Cold comfort...an interesting oxymoron.

The main character in the movie Dogma that pretty much summed up the jaded Catholic agnostic POV. Watch the movie...her words are pretty much mine.

[YOY]

6. No, sorry.

Not after being insulted by a few of the atheists here for daring to say "I don't really know and honestly, neither do you or the religious folks."

We're pretty much on our own.

[Finder]

8. I can't imagine why an atheist would insult you...

since that is how most atheists look at it as well. Since agnostics will not be skewing science in public schools or imposing biblical law in the US they are a welcome ally.

[YOY]

9. Just one of the folks on the Atheist board...not making this up

No names given.

Rude person. Very rude.

Especially did not like the fact that I pointed out that he sounded like a Theist with his adamant and unflinching resolve to not admit that there are things he can not be certain about and had no way of knowing for sure.

He was quite certain that without a tiny speck of doubt in his mind that there exists no god or gods or afterlife, etc...

He was quite offended that someone might question his certainty as they would question the certainty of those who do believe without a doubt in such things.

It's that poster and his ilk that makes the DU "Atheists and Agnostics Group" really the "Atheists Group" I am sorry to say.

[Finder]

10. I couldn't find any threads you participated in over there...

but really think there are so many misunderstandings because of semantics.

Atheist/Theist/Deist are labels of belief. Agnostic has to do with knowledge rather than belief. Even among atheists there is disagreement on the labels.

Divide and conquer seems to be a successful tactic to keep the freethinkers from having any organizational capabilities.

[YOY]

11. No, it was on the main boards as I recall and a while ago...

I used to go to the Atheist and Agnostic board but never really posted there when they scared me off. As I traipse between my Catholic upbringing and a jaded reality that makes me more of an Agnostic I found the lack of willingness to accept the possibility of doubt there bothersome.

[Finder]

12. I still haven't come across an atheist here who states that type of certainty...

although many of us can say with some degree of certainty that particular gods do not exist...Zeus, Thor, Jesus, Tammuz, Jehovah, etc...
(those with a theology that can be debunked)

[YOY]

13. It was one individual and he or she had issues, IMHO

I swear I'm not making this up.

[Finder]

14. Well hopefully you will give the A/A forum another chance...n/t

[Meshuga]

17. Good point about questioning

Questioning is the key and that's the beef the Sam Harrisses of the world have with religion. The lack of questioning which is the dangerous and hurts us all. Fine, I agree with that as well. But somehow all of religion gets grouped even when some religions set questioning as a key element.

In my opinion, a person not questioning his/her own "certainty", that person being secular or religious, is a bad thing. You probably forced the person you had a debate with to question his own opinion on things therefore he had to be rude in response.

Picking on religion for the lack of questioning is easy so it is a nice scapegoat to receive all the blame on all the world's problems. Even when attrocities are commited by both the religious and the irreligious.

In my opinion, the main problem is extremism and fanatism. Religion is not the only part of our society that owns those words. We should focus our "resistence" against the fanatics and extremists in any group of our society and not on Joe Schmo who believes in a personal God and keeps it to himself and his family.

[bryant69]

18. The trouble with questioning

is that you assume you know the answer. It's easy enough for a believer to assume that if an atheist really sought God they would find them and it's easy enough for a theist to assume that if a theist really sat down and thought through their beliefs they'd realize how ridiculous they are.

Questioning is certainly important - key even, but problems will continue to occur because we aren't all going to come up with the same answer.

Bryant

[Meshuga]

19. So what if we all come up with different answers?

How is it that by questioning you are assuming you know the answer?

[Finder]

20. Critical thinking that leads to questioning does not assume anything...

or at least it shouldn't.

[bryant69]

I may not be expressing myself well

I apologize.

I am thinking more about the process of questioning in a group, which is what happens here.

Bryant

[bryant69]

21. Dupe n/t

[Evoman]

22. So its one person?

I don't understand why you would say "not after being insulted by a few atheists" if it was one person. Your basing your opinion on the atheists board, and the people here, based on an insult from one atheist in the main board?

[YOY]

23. He did go back to the AA board for some high fives and got them

I don't think other folks were being as analytical of his 'attack dog' style of debate as I was.

That person posts quite a bit there. I'd rather not post my opinion where that person posts for the sake of stirring up yet another beesnest.

[Evoman]

24. Alright, I'll let it go...no beesnet.

Just wanted to say that I visit the AA group a LOT and I don't remember anything like that. if you could you send me the link by PM, however, I would appreciate it. I promise I won't let anyone else know.

[YOY]

26. look, I'd rather not be an incendiary force

I'm not the type. (granted a few issues really get under my skin...argueing about philodophy ain't one) I talk about the problem with a Mod and he did agree that the Atheist and Agnostic is more of an Atheist board and that this particular individual did not play nice in the debate game.

That and I don't know how to dig up a thread 6 or 7 months old.

[OneBlueSky]

4. guess I'm a panenthiest . . .

"The day of my spiritual awakening was the day I saw -- and knew I saw -- all things in God and God in all things." Mechtild of Magdeburg

"The idea that God is 'out there' is probably the ultimate dualism, divorcing as it does God and humanity and reducing religion to a childish state of pleasing or pleading with a God 'out there.' All theism sets up a model or paradigm of people here and God out there. All theisms are about subject/object relationships to God.

{snip}

"God is in everything and everything is in God. . . Panentheism is a way of seeing the world sacramentally. Indeed, the primary sacrament is creation itself -- which includes every person and being who lives. . . Panentheism is a mature doctrine about the presence of God, about the deep with-ness of God." Matthew Fox, Original Blessing

"God created all things in such a way that they are not outside himself, as ignorant people falsely imagine. Rather, all creatures flow outward, but nonetheless remain within God." Meister Eckhart

[jokerman93]

15. There is no God where I am

The point of view I've come to is that it's absurd to try to convince others of anything at all. Follow a belief far enough and it cancels itself out. Words fail and people hold to whatever they think will empower them or give their life meaning. So persuasion to what end?

Your opinions change nothing. Niether do mine.

J

[More Than A Feeling]

16. I can't answer the question until I finish figuring out what my POV is.

[Az]

25. Not trying to convert others but I am trying to expose them

I would love it if more people found their way to my way of thinking. Thats human nature. But I do not actively attempt to convert people. But I do make my views known and in that way expose people to them in the hopes that they can find something of value from them.

[Crunchy Frog]

28. I don't consider myself an atheist, but I'm not a conventional theist

either. I really don't care what anyone's personal beliefs are, but I do wish that people on this board of all persuasions would treat each other with a bit more respect.

I'm not really sure where that would place me on your poll. :)