What the hell happened to Christianity?

[DeepModem Mom]

CNN: What the hell happened to Christianity?
December 14, 2006
By Jay Bakker and Marc Brown
Special to CNN

Editor's note: Jay Bakker, son of former Praise The Lord leaders Jim Bakker and Tammy Faye Messner, is minister of Revolution Church and subject of a new documentary series, "One Punk Under God," on Sundance Channel. Marc Brown is a Revolution staff member.

NEW YORK (CNN) -- What the hell happened? Where did we go wrong? How was Christianity co-opted by a political party? Why are Christians supporting laws that force others to live by their standards? The answers to these questions are integral to the survival of Christianity.

While the current state of Christianity might seem normal and business-as-usual to some, most see through the judgment and hypocrisy that has permeated the church for so long. People witness this and say to themselves, "Why would I want to be a part of that?" They are turned off by Christians and eventually, to Christianity altogether. We can't even count the number of times someone has given us a weird stare or completely brushed us off when they discover we work for a church.

So when did the focus of Christianity shift from the unconditional love and acceptance preached by Christ to the hate and condemnation spewed forth by certain groups today? Some say it was during the rise of Conservative Christianity in the early 1980s with political action groups like the Moral Majority. Others say it goes way back to the 300s, when Rome's Christian Emperor Constantine initiated a set of laws limiting the rights of Roman non-Christians. Regardless of the origin, one thing is crystal clear: It's not what Jesus stood for.

His parables and lessons were focused on love and forgiveness, a message of "come as you are, not as you should be." The bulk of his time was spent preaching about helping the poor and those who are unable to help themselves. At the very least, Christians should be counted on to lend a helping hand to the poor and others in need.

This brings us to the big issues of American Christianity: Abortion and gay marriage. These two highly debatable topics will not be going away anytime soon. Obviously, the discussion centers around whether they are right or wrong, but is the screaming really necessary? After years of witnessing the dark side of religion, Marc and I think not....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/13/bakker.brown.commentary/index.html

[valerief]

1. Taken over by Christianists whose leaders (BFEE and the top

generals like Dobson, Falwell, and Robertson) are actually waging a War on Christians by beating the world with the their Christianism (as opposed to Christianity). BFEE sits at the left hand of the House of Saud (Muslims) and does their bidding. Christianists have overtaken America and have done everything they can to make Christianity extremely unlikable.

[ToolTex]

2. I can tell you when and where. Dr. Criswell, of 1st Baptist Church

in Dallas, in about 1970, started preaching and teaching in his Rapture study classes, that to save the nation Baptists had to infiltrate and take over American politics starting at local levels. A friend came excitedly into my office the next morning to tell me about Criswell's vision. Later when he was head of the Southern Baptist convention, he pushed the political takeover concept as well as the in-errancy of the bible text. Just think, I could have stopped it all 35 years ago with one well directed action, but I thought they were just nuts.

[cosmik debris]

3. RIGHT ON!

I was attending Baylor U. at that time and I remember it well.

[More Than A Feeling]

4. I'll take it back even further. The writing of the Gospels is when it happened

When the life of Jesus was written as though it had fulfilled the Jewish prophecies concerning the messiah, the question became, "why did the Jews reject him?" That question combined with the supposed killing of Jesus by Jewish authorities, laid the foundation for anti-semitism for centuries, and for the feeling that anyone who rejected Jesus was crucifying him all over again. It's all in CONSTANTINE'S SWORD by James Carroll. It's a long story, but a page-turner, and Carroll does a good job of summarizing at the beginning of each chapter so you never get lost.

[Felix Mala]

5. It started with Constantine...

So when did the focus of Christianity shift from the unconditional love and acceptance preached by Christ to the hate and condemnation spewed forth by certain groups today?

He had a dream that a great victory was scored by an army carrying the cross so he co-opted Christianity because he wanted to lead that victorious army. At that moment, Christianity stopped being the religion of the slave, the downtrodden and the meek and became a dangerous weapon of the slave owner, the despot, the robber baron...

The medieval Catholic church had plenty of time to fiddle with it so we ended up with extremely wealthy bishops and popes and solid support from the merchant classes once it became clear that God wanted them to be rich.

Throw in a bit of puritanism and a big dose of evangelicalism which teaches that Jesus is really Santa Claus, granting all the material things you can think of, and you have what we have today. A mishmash where Jesus is a powerful superhero striking down His enemies and preserving the Earth for the enjoyment of the rich and powerful.

[elehhhhna]

6. Jay Bakker has been getting schooled by Jim, Tammy, and real life

for a long time now. He could be formidable voice in taking Christianity back to Christ.

[Ezlivin]

7. You should hear seminary students talk

When I was in seminary, the talk was rather amazing. Students were pretty tired of the "everything is all right" facade that "Christians" had. No one had problems and it was always "Praise the Lord" and "it's His will" when things went awry.

And although Xians like to think that they are praying for each other, most of the time it's just an updated gossip circle. Xians rarely share genuine, soul-crushing problems because if you do then others start to doubt your salvation.

While I was a Single's Minister at a local church the pastor had a regular prayer group with local area businessmen. These "godly" men were upright members of the church and business community. The senior pastor's prayer partner, "Bill", left his wife and ran off with his secretary Bambi (her real name because who'd believe it). The pastor was completely and totally surprised, nothing nothing of the struggling marriage even though he prayed with this man every day.

I spent over a decade as a dedicated fundamentalist. I learned one hell of a lesson, one that will remain with me for the rest of my days. Now I'm a proud atheist, thank god. :)

[kiahzero]

8. I blame Saul

He bastardized Christianity by taking it away from its Jewish roots and allowing / encouraging it to be spread among the Gentiles.

[rebel with a cause]

15. Hey,

Don't blame us Gentiles.

[ToolTex]

9. It is probably time to amend the Constitution and outlaw religion

of any kind in the USA. The fundies had their chance for 230 years and badly mismanaged it so lets just take away their playpen. Everyone must sign oaths of non-religious zeal, or get sent to Cuba. Problem solved.

[kiahzero]

10. Can I assume you're an atheist?

I got roundly attacked for merely asserting that posts like this were ever made by atheists:

It is probably time to amend the Constitution and outlaw religion of any kind in the USA. The fundies had their chance for 230 years and badly mismanaged it so lets just take away their playpen. Everyone must sign oaths of non-religious zeal, or get sent to Cuba. Problem solved.

[ToolTex]

11. I prefer to be labeled non-delusional, thanks.

I do think religious zealots should be rounded up by the general populous and shot. (Along with witches, warlocks, harlots, strumpets, and some busybodies). :sarcasm:

[kiahzero]

12. Ha ha ha.

You're a laugh riot.

:eyes:

[TRYPHO]

13. it is outlawed already

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

See http://www.restorethepledge.com/

TRYPHO

[beam me up scottie]

17. What a ridiculous thing to say. It is not outlawed.

Have you been listening to O'Reilly and Coulter again?

[TRYPHO]

20. It >>>>IS

People and other instituations can do what they like - should do what they like - but the Government of the United States was founded to be non-demoninational and non-god orientated. Take a deeper look at the link in the original post I made, or watch the "So help me God" video clip (centre link) here:

http://www.restorethepledge.com/

Or go to youtube and do a search for Mike Newdow. There's a series of about 10 episodes in which he gives a talk (I think in Las Vegas) which was wonderful to watch and he's got me converted to his cause on this issue.

The US Government MUST NOT, CAN NOT, SHOULD NOT and ARE ILLEGAL in still doing so, by making legal requirements involving God, allegiance to God, swearing on a bible, restricitions of office and marking coins and notes with words including God.

Dont get me wrong, I'm religious, but the Government must not be.

So help me God....

TRYPHO

[beam me up scottie]

22. NO>>>>IT'S NOT

Religion is not outlawed in this country. I can't believe you're even debating this.

[NMMNG]

19. Sure it is

That's why there are churches on nearly every block, dozens of religious TV networks, the "Faith-Based Initiative", tax exemptions for religious institutions, etc.

Lay off the street drugs; they're frying your brain.

[TRYPHO]

21. I repeat: The GOVERNMENT is outlawed from religious views

Posted by BuffyTheFundieSlayer
That's why there are churches on nearly every block, dozens of religious TV networks, the "Faith-Based Initiative", tax exemptions for religious institutions, etc.
Lay off the street drugs; they're frying your brain.
--
Not people, organisations or anyone or anything EXCEPT the US Government, federal and state.

See http://www.restorethepledge.com/ again and take note of this one sentence:

that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

Any religion, by the GOVERNMENT.

TRYPHO (I sell drugs I dont take them!)

[beam me up scottie]

23. The poster advocated outlawing religion. You claimed it already was.

It is probably time to amend the Constitution and outlaw religion...

of any kind in the USA

it is outlawed already

[TRYPHO]

25. Oops, I read it wrong didn't I ?!

-->The poster advocated outlawing religion. You claimed it already was.
--
ha ha - err now I read it like that, perhaps the intent was mis-percieved to anyone not currently living inside my head (currently at full occupancy thank you very much).

-->It is probably time to amend the Constitution and outlaw religion...of any kind in the USA
--
Now now, you were on a winning streak, and then you went and blew it on a dream.

I will try and read what am I posting responses to a little more carefully in future. Lesson learnt. Wasn't too painful. No stitches or burn cream required.

TRYPHO

[beam me up scottie]

27. No worries.

Based on your other posts in this forum, I thought that might have been the case.

Many atheists in the U.S. dream of a world without organized religion, but we also understand that outlawing it is a violation of the Constitution as well as counterproductive.

[greyl]

24. I wouldn't call that "repeating". nt

[More Than A Feeling]

14. "OVER THE LINE!"

"I'm sorry, Smokey, you're over the line. Mark it zero, Dude."

[Danger Mouse]

16. Uh...okay?

If this is supposed to be sarcastic, it ain't funny.
If it's not, uhm, well, have fun with that, okay?

[beam me up scottie]

18. No deal.

Besides, "non-religious zeal" isn't the same thing as religion.

Most liberal believers already took that oath.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

26. What unconditional love and acceptance?

Jesus was not always a nice guy.

What about "I come not in peace but with a sword" etc., saying that his purpose is to split families apart. That's one thing he said that I have seen happen in many families. Like total estrangement for three generations for example, in a family I know (not my own).


:banghead: