Christmas is built on two lies... but we still try to get into the spirit.

[Radio_Lady]

I don't believe in either:

1. The Virgin Birth of the Son of God (that's the biggie...can't accept it conceptually!)
2. Santa Claus (Yes, I know the original story of St. Nicholas. But look what it's become.)

I'll try not to be a grinch through this weekend, but it's tough.

Happy Holidays, whatever you believe!

[Critters2]

1. You can't celebrate the lengthening days? nt

[Radio_Lady]

3. Oh, yeh! That works for me (except I hate summer heat and prefer the cold!)

But we have at least two more months of cold weather.

Happy Soltice Day (I guess it's over now -- yesterday was the day? Sunrise at 7:48 AM?)

Thanks for the support! I've studied world religions and still stuck with scientific explanations after all these years.

Radio Lady listens...

[rurallib]

2. Yule want to celebrate the longer days!

[Radio_Lady]

5. See my other post. My favorite months of the year are October, April, and May.

Usually not too hot or cold.

I was raised in Miami, Florida. I crawled into theaters, and radio and TV stations because they were COOL enough to support the electrical equipment -- and ME.

[whistle]

4. Did you forget Mr. Scrooge and his spiritual awakening?

....Look what Christmas did for him.

[Radio_Lady]

15. Sorry, I don't believe in Christmas PAST, PRESENT or FUTURE.

And I also don't believe in ghosts.

The indoctrination of my mind towards religion while I was a child didn't take, and it only made me more resolute that science was something I was interested in. Science doesn't require "faith..." except for the recognition of the smallest particles of matter, which I've never seen.

[Why Syzygy]

27. I love science.

But don't you have to have faith that the path of science leads to the betterment of humanity and the world? (redemption)

[Radio_Lady]

33. We can certainly hope so. Unless you're dealing with a mad scientist as in science fiction

depictions, or a warped mind, such as a person who would poison another person with some substance (let's say polonium, the radioactive ingredient that killed a Russian spy).

I don't believe in redemption because I don't believe there is any "original sin" requiring redemption. I also don't believe the Adam and Eve story.

redemption
One entry found for redemption.

Main Entry: re·demp·tion
Pronunciation: ri-'dem(p)-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English redempcioun, from Anglo-French redempcion, from Latin redemption-, redemptio, from redimere to redeem
: the act, process, or an instance of redeeming

Main Entry: re·deem
Pronunciation: ri-'dEm
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English redemen, from Anglo-French redemer, modification of Latin redimere, from re-, red- re- + emere to take, buy; akin to Lithuanian imti to take
1 a : to buy back : REPURCHASE b : to get or win back
2 : to free from what distresses or harms: as a : to free from captivity by payment of ransom b : to extricate from or help to overcome something detrimental c : to release from blame or debt : CLEAR d : to free from the consequences of sin
3 : to change for the better : REFORM
4 : REPAIR, RESTORE
5 a : to free from a lien by payment of an amount secured thereby b (1) : to remove the obligation of by payment <the United States Treasury redeems savings bonds on demand> (2) : to exchange for something of value <redeem trading stamps> c : to make good : FULFILL
6 a : to atone for : EXPIATE <redeem an error> b (1) : to offset the bad effect of (2) : to make worthwhile : RETRIEVE
synonym see RESCUE

[Az]

6. The only truth you need worry about

Is compassion in a time of cold and darkness.

[Radio_Lady]

16. Very beautifully put, Az. I must try and remember that.

Radio Lady listens...

[aquart]

7. Piffle.

You're using linear logic. You have to use associative logic.

And it's a big mistake to think of Christmas as Christian. It just confuses you. The birth of the sacred child is way way way older. It's older than ancient.


I suspect the Saint Nick story is also older than you've been told.

<http://www.orlutheran.com/html/santa.html>

"It is held by some scholars that the legends of Nicholas as gift-giver drew in part from pagan, preChristian sources. For example, the Teutonic god of the air, Odin, would ride through the air on a gray horse (named Sleipnir) each Autumn - so did Nicholas; Odin had a long white beard - so did Nicholas; a sheaf of grain was left in the field for Odin's horse - children left a wisp of straw in their shoes for Nicholas.4 Others claim that attributes of the Germanic god Thor, the god of thunder, were transferred to Nicholas. Thor was supposedly elderly and heavy with a long white beard; he road through the air in a chariot drawn by two white goats (called Cracker and Gnasher); he dressed in red; his palace was in the "northland;" he was friendly and cheerful; he would come down the chimney into his element, the fire.5 No definitive correlation has ever been found between the "visit of St. Nicholas" and pagan gods such as Odin and Thor. However the similarity is striking and some relationship seems likely.6"

[Radio_Lady]

17. Sorry, the illegitimate child born of the seed of God has to be swallowed whole cloth.

It isn't something I can get my mind around. Never have. The sacred "child" used to be the sun, a rock, a variety of gods in the Pantheon of Egypt, Greece, Rome. Sure is easier to understand one God than a bunch of them. Way easier to "worship" -- if that's what you mean.

Thanks for the citation about Saint Nick. All of these allegorical stories spring full blown (or half-assed) from the mind of some imaginative story teller. That doesn't mean they are real.

I asked my just-turned six-year-old grandson Solomon, who is being raised as a Conservative Jew, what he knows about Santa Claus.

He looked at me kind of disgusted. "He's your parents..." and continued puttering with his toy cars.

What truth in a child's mind!

[Skip Intro]

8. Santa in a blue robe. Don't see that often.

Wonder if we could maneuver the repukes into arguing over the proper color of Santa's robe.

"Its always been red, and now the liberals are trying to change it to blue!"

WAR ON CHRISTMAS! WAR ON CHRISTMAS!

:rofl:

[Radio_Lady]

18. Skip Intro, thanks for the laugh! A progressive St. Nick!

I must admit I just linked to the photo because I like snow, and big and little furry animals.

I can't find the original site right now, sorry.

[Why Syzygy]

28. Here's the link >

http://www.novareinna.com/ .. and that's an awesome site.

[Radio_Lady]

34. The site's illustrations are magnificent, and the explanation of the holidays.

Is this the site of lover(s) of mysticism and fantasy? Astrology? Other occult things?

The closest I've come to that is a publisher called Tor/Forge. They deal with fantasy books that they sent to me quite regularly. They're at www.tor.com

I pass the books along to other radio reviewers. Mostly, that's because I like non-fiction.

Thanks again for your research!



Site appears to be owned by a woman in Baton Rouge, LA
I'd love to talk with her, but don't have a budget to get her unlisted telephone number.

[mike_c]

9. happy solstice....

eom

[Radio_Lady]

19. Hey, Mike! Happy Solstice to you, too.

[Liberal Lassie]

10. don't believe or just jealous?

I know nobody, especially me, could change the mind of a non believer but what if you are wrong???
How else could God have a son except by a woman? The way that it was explained to me by the best pastor I have ever listened to is this: GOD WANTED TO HAVE A FAMILY. he wanted to have a family who love him and he would love them back. God did not and never has wanted a family of robots. Those who believe have freewill. Those who don't believe have free will. By choosing freely to believe by faith alone and not by science or biology is the whole meaning of the Christian faith.
"For it is by faith that ye are saved." True empirical faith in things that you have not seen is a tremendous step but it will make you joyous.

Off the soap box: sANTA CLAUS IS A MYTH BUT A JOYFUL MYTH TO CHILDREN. LET THEM HAVE THEIR JOY BEFORE LIFE SUCKS IT ALL OUT OF THEM. PLEASE.

[Skip Intro]

12. Well, see....

If blind faith leads to happiness, and faith is a choice (which I'm not sure it is), then why not just believe in the best thing you can think of, and make that real? Do you know what I mean? Just believe in a God that wouldn't allow misery. Why not? If belief is the key? Not slamming what you're saying, just asking about what I don't get about what you're saying. Do you mean faith in this one particular thing, Christianity, as you know it? Or do you mean faith itself?

I just really have a hard time with the blind faith in God thing. If any particular concept of God is accurate, and my one belief that if one is true, he is a loving, forgiving God, then it really doesn't matter if I believe or not, he won't forsake me for using the mind he gave me, for questioning his existence. So I don't lose anything by not lulling myself into a belief, that I still have serious questions about, just because someone (for as long as I can remember) tells me I should.

I'm not slamming what you're saying, really I'm not. I've just never gotten the blind faith thing, or the "what if you're wrong" thing. So what if I'm wrong, I'm sure God, whatever he/she/it is, will welcome me anyway.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. Welcome to DU!

You may find it interesting to know that the virgin birth of Jesus is also recounted in the Qur'an, in the sura (chapter) called Mariam, which is Arabic for Mary.

:hi:

[Radio_Lady]

21. All texts were created by man, from stories fashioned by man.

Have you ever played the game "Rumor" or "Telephone"?

I am too much of a realist to accept those texts as "the word of God". You have to add "As told to ______ and he told _______ etc. until someone wrote it down, sometimes hundreds of years later."

I also have trouble with the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon and the Koran (or Qur'an -- we can't even agree how to spell it, much less have it translated over and over from person to person, and language to language).

BTW, I have one child who is a Conservative Jew and one who is baptized as a Mormon. I've heard it all. I've told them both that they have the right to believe whatever they wish, and to raise their children the best they can to be good and clean and loving human beings.

Just don't try to proselytize this Grandma!

In peace,

Radio_Lady

The Grandmother Gathering

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

24. Kindly realize I wasn't talking to you

It is sometimes difficult to ascertain who is talking to whom on a forum, but my post was directed at Liberal Lassie, a newcomer. I have learned from years of coming to DU that I won't change atheist's minds, and I'm not trying to. But I can talk to another believer in our language, to be polite and welcoming. Next time I have a "welcome to DU" message I guess I'll have to spell out that I am talking to that individual and call them by name.

[Radio_Lady]

32. Ayeshahaqqiqa, I understand. The interspersing of conversation gets a little bit

confusing and I apologize for not recognizing the continuity. Yes, it would be helpful if you put the name of the DUer up at the top so it would be clearer for us to understand.

I would have welcomed Liberal Lassie, but then saw your post, and checked her personal information. She joined in August 2006 and now had just a few posts. I once was admonished for "welcoming" someone who joined a while ago but didn't post frequently.

By the way, I am not an atheist, and I do not accept that label. I do believe in a Divine Mind and an Initial Creator. I am spiritual, but not religions. I don't mean to split hairs, but that's what I was trying to communicate in my post.

[Radio_Lady]

20. Hi Liberal Lassie! What if YOU are wrong? Then all this cogitating will

be in vain, and you will have wasted your life praying to (someone) (something) that doesn't exist, and fantasizing that your best life will NOT be this one, but the next one. I have faith -- that the sun will rise tomorrow, that I will continue on in this life living by a simple credo "Do unto others as they would have you do unto them." I know that's a little bit shifted from the original, but I really like it.

To me, all religion is man-made -- but if it helps you get through the day, more power to you. I attend a non-denominational spiritual service at the local Universalist-Unitarian fellowship (there is no minister, the services are lay-led). They allow you to define God as you will. I see it as a powerful force in the Universe, which I do believe had a Mind behind it. You just have to look at the flowers, birds, bees, and nature to see it. Somehow I do not believe that this all "just happened" but I don't try to explain it away with trivialities such as a child born out of wedlock to a woman who was "visited by God."

Thank you for your comments,

In peace,

Radio_Lady in Oregon

[Why Syzygy]

29. My reflections

on the Great Mind, The All, The IAM have given me this translation of that verse:
The way you treat others is the way they will treat you. IOW, Love given returns.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

26. It will also make you a sucker for the bigwigs at the top.

Sorry, but I'd rather be a little less joyous and yet also a little less gullible and deluded.

[Zhade]

31. Hell, I've never been happier, and a huge part of that is being god-free.

Dropping the impossible-to-buy-into-without-evidence idea of "gods" was one of the best things I've ever done in my life, and today I'm very, very happy.

[Zhade]

30. Jealous? Why would anyone be jealous of someone who believes in unproven mythical nonsense?

Do you get jealous of people who believe in unicorns?

What an odd comment - it's not like you have anything worth being jealous of.

[beam me up scottie]

35. "How else could God have a son except by a woman?" ?

Um, isn't God supposed to be omnipotent?

True empirical faith in things that you have not seen is a tremendous step but it will make you joyous.

What is "empirical faith" ?

[fairfaxvadem]

11. I'm with you on both counts.

And yet, I still find the Catholic Mass to be very emotional, even though I don't buy the entire doctrine. I am a serious candidate for ex-communication, I guess. But the interesting thing is that this isn't anything I came to as an adult. I felt the same way at the age of 8. I just kept my mouth shut and continued to read my "Lives of the Saints," - not believing the stories literally, but appreciating the conviction behind them.

My folks never knew.

Count me as spiritual, but not religious. An ethnic Catholic, if you will.

[Radio_Lady]

22. "Count me as spiritual, not religious." Sounds like what I've come to also.

I went to a Jewish synagogue on Sundays. Services were held in a storefront in North Miami, Florida, and I was confirmed at age 13 (they did not perform the Bat Mitzvah "Daughter of the Commandments" ceremony with girls in those days, nor did they try to teach us any Hebrew).

Therefore, when I go to a synagogue these days, I prefer Reform congregations. They allow music, dancing, female Rabbis, allow the men to sit with the women, don't force girls to wear long sleeves and skirts.

Conservative Jews keep the Kosher laws, their men cover their heads, don't shave their beards, do all kinds of ritualistic stuff. Feh.... much of this was introduced in the 1800s among the Eastern European Jews.

My daughter loves it. I think it's a waste of time, but I do enjoy the open and free will services at the West Hills fellowship.

"Spiritual, not religious." Good news!

In peace,

Radio_Lady in Oregon

[buddysmellgood]

13. Some of the best Christians I know are aethiasts. I think it's pointless to get wrapped

up in the details. It's the ethic of Jesus that counts. For me, Christmas means, Love they neighbor, Peace on Earth, Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me, and all that good stuff. When I say Merry Christmas, I'm saying Peace, Shalom, Goodwill.
Sadly, we have a number of asshats who now have associated Christmas with War. Instead of Joy to the World it's War on Christmas.
Well Fuck that. I say, Peace on Earth. Goodwill to you and yours. May your days be merry and bright! Don't let them drag you down. It's YOUR time, so make it what you want. Watch it's a Wonderful Life and get lost in that sort of feeling for a while and remember, there is always hope.

[Radio_Lady]

23. Hey, Buddy! Good news in your message.

(Except for the swear words. Somehow, they didn't fit, but I get the idea.)

Have a happy, healthy, hearty holiday season --

Radio Lady listens...

[Evoman]

25. Haha...you got it the wrong way around. Some of the best Atheists I know are Christians!