Ghosts in the Machine

[heidler1]

add link http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/30/opinion/30blum.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

THE human brain is, in surprising part, an appliance powered by electricity. It constantly generates about 12 watts of energy, enough to keep a flashlight glowing. It works by sending out electrical impulses — bursts of power running along the cellular wires of the nervous system — to stimulate muscles into motion or thought into being. We’re mostly aware of this when the machine falters, when it short-circuits into epilepsy or frays into the tremors of Parkinson’s disease.

So when scientists wrote in a recent issue of the journal Nature that they could induce phantom effects — the sensation of being haunted by a shadowy figure — by stimulating the brain with electricity, it made perfect neurological sense. One could even argue that the existence of such sensations explains away the so-called supernatural. In fact, as The Times reported, the researchers promptly concluded that ghosts are mere “bodily delusions,” electrical misfirings and nothing more.

[rosesaylavee]

1. Link? n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Interesting

link to the rest?

I'd like a link because I don't see how ALL phenomenae that has been called "ghostly" can be explained by this. What of audio phenomenae that have been recorded on tape? What of the instruments that have registered moving cold spots in buildings? What of videos of objects moving around without any reasonable explanation for their movement? Or do you contend that is all hokum and tricks?

[heidler1]

4. What I see in this is why people disagree so strongly over the Supernatural.

Personally I've never experienced any of these things and tend to believe it is hokum and by the way I'm an Atheist.

Randi paranormal challenge
James Randi, a.k.a. The Amazing Randi, magician and author of numerous works skeptical of paranormal claims, offers "a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power." His rules are little more than what any reasonable scientist would require. If you are a mental spoon bender, you can't use your own spoons. If you are going to see auras, you will have to do so under controlled conditions. If you are going to do some remote viewing, you will not be given credit for coming close in some vague way. If you are going to demonstrate your dowsing powers, be prepared to be tested under controlled conditions. If you are going to do psychic surgery or experience the stigmata, expect to have cameras watching your every move.
http://skepdic.com/randi.html

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Then it is hokum to you

It's not to me, and I'll leave it at that.

[PADemD]

17. Paranormal experiences

Personally, I've had telepathic and precognitive experiences that I cannot dismiss; and these experiences occurred with people other than my identical twin. Who cares what James Randi thinks, not me.

[MilesColtrane]

3. "the researchers promptly concluded that ghosts are mere...

...“bodily delusions,” electrical misfirings and nothing more."

Yes. But.
Something is causing those misfirings.

[heidler1]

5. As they said like Parkinson's disease

[MilesColtrane]

18. There are more things in heaven and earth that are dreamed of in any of our

philosophies.

As Dr. Strangefeld might say, there are more unknown unkowns, than known unknowns.

[ntesla]

7. Quantum Physics of Smell

That is a good question. Unfortunately, I doubt there is a simple answer since human senses can be very complex.

"A controversial theory that proposes that our sense of smell is based not on the shape of the molecules that enter our nose but on their vibrations was given a boost recently when University College London researchers determined that the quantum physics involved makes sense. The theory, proposed in the mid-1990s by biophysicist Luca Turin, suggests that electron tunneling initiates the smell signal being sent to the brain. It could explain why similarly shaped molecules can have very different smells, and molecules with very different structures can smell similar."

Turin has now formed a company to design odorants using his theory, and claims an advantage over the competition of two orders of magnitude in rate of discovery. The article concludes, "At the very least, he is putting his money where his nose is

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/11/1952201

[cosmik debris]

15. All electro-chemical energy in the cells comes from

Chemical reactions within the cell. Adenosine Triphosphate (ADT) is the main source of chemical energy. It is produced by the Mitochondria.

Misfires can be caused by any of the factors that effect the mitachondria or the cell wall permeability. A common factor is the balance of Calcium and Sodium ions.

I'm having a little trouble with the OP statement that the Brain puts out 12 watts. By my calculations that would require either very high resistance (improbable) or very high current(fatal). The typical voltage in the brain is 0-5 millivolts and you can't get that to put out 12 watts without a huge multiplier.

[Mythsaje]

8. And yet quantum physics

strongly suggests they don't know shit. The universe is a FAR more mysterious and magical place than they want to admit. The observer DIRECTLY affects that which is observed. Particles only manifest as probability UNTIL they are acted upon by something else. Sounds pretty magical to me.

Those who have experienced the "paranormal" (supernatural is a bullshit word and I reject its use entirely) already have their own proof. I'm skeptical of some things, but don't necessarily disbelieve in anything.

I've seen things before they've happened, acted on gut feelings that have consequently saved my life, and have never regretted listening to my inner voice when danger was on the wind. I've never seen a ghost, but I know those who have. Who am I to say that my experiences are more valid than theirs?

The one thought I had yesterday is that without consciousness, this whole shmear is pointless. Only consciousness is capable of questioning and making this reality in anyway relevant to anything.

[beam me up scottie]

9. K& R

Saving this for later, too wiped out to concentrate now and this looks way too good to waste. :)

[Meshuga]

10. It sounds like a bad trip

It would be great if they came up with ways to induce the effects of THC or other chemicals that would not fry the brain and help us avoid the unhealthy consequences from the current methods of drug intake (i.e., lung cancer from smoking pot).

[beam me up scottie]

11. I read somewhere that they had done some research into synthetic drugs

back in the 60's and '70's, I think.

They had some success in producing the same quality of "high" but without the dangerous side effects and addiction.

IIRC, the government shut it down when they launched their "war on drugs".



This was in an OMNI magazine back in early 80's, so I have no recollection of any specifics.

[Meshuga]

12. Rat Bastards!

No dangerous side effects and no addiction and made illegal? I guess they have to end our fun at all costs. It problably didn't too well as a mind control device so it had to be made illegal. :-)

[beam me up scottie]

14. It was a wake up call for me.

They just pulled the plug on the research.

Just like they did with birth control after the pill came on the market.

We are decades behind Europe.

[heidler1]

13. When I worked for IBM Corp. circuit failure was the commonest cause

of garbage out except for garbage in. It seems like this knowledge revealed in the O.P. will help direct cures to many disease's providing those who prefer to hold onto their dogma of why are prevented from stopping these experiments.

[damntexdem]

16. The fluff about the print article asked what science could say about the supernatural.

The proper response to such questions is: "nothing." Science deals with the natural world, and can say nothing about anything supernatural, including whether it exists.

On the other side, the ability to induce feelings, experiences, and perceptions by stimulating the brain says nothing about what those feelings, experiences, and perceptions are about -- natural or not. Our perceptions of the natural world rely on our biology. Stimulating that biology to simulate perceptions, feelings, whatever in no way establishes the nonexistence of the natural world -- any more than fiddling with a camera debunks whatever the camera took pictures of.