Mormons Dismayed by Harsh Spotlight

[question everything]

The Wall Street Journal

Mormons Dismayed by Harsh Spotlight
By SUZANNE SATALINE
February 8, 2008; Page A1

Mitt Romney's campaign for the presidency brought more attention to the Mormon Church than it has had in years. What the church discovered was not heartening. Critics of its doctrines and culture launched frequent public attacks. Polling data showed that far more Americans say they'd never vote for a Mormon than those who admitted they wouldn't choose a woman or an African-American. A Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll in late January revealed that 50% of Americans said they would have reservations or be "very uncomfortable" about a Mormon as president. That same poll found that 81% would be "enthusiastic" or "comfortable" with an African-American and 76% with a woman. The Mormon religion "was the silent factor in a lot of the decision making by evangelicals and others," says Democratic pollster Peter Hart, who conducted the poll. The Romney campaign ran into "a religious bias head wind," Mr. Hart and his Republican polling partner, Bill McInurff, wrote late last month.

(snip)

Nevertheless, Mr. Romney's campaign exposed a surprisingly virulent strain of anti-Mormonism that had been largely hidden to the general public. In December, political pundit and actor Lawrence O'Donnell Jr. unleashed a tirade on the "McLaughlin Group" television talk show, tearing into the Mormon Church and Mr. Romney's faith. "Romney comes from a religion founded by a criminal who was anti-American, pro-slavery, and a rapist. And he comes from that lineage and says, 'I respect this religion fully.'...He's got to answer." Mormons were outraged. Hundreds complained to the show and on radio talk shows and the Internet, protesting that the remarks about church founder Joseph Smith were bigoted and unfounded. Mr. O'Donnell, a former MSNBC commentator who plays a lawyer for polygamists on the HBO drama "Big Love," says he has nothing to apologize for. "Everything I said was true," he says. Although the McLaughlin Group says it will keep Mr. O'Donnell off the air for now, neither MSNBC nor HBO plans to take action against him, spokespeople say.

(snip)

For Mormons, Mr. O'Donnell's comments were a rallying cry. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are taught not to argue with outsiders over faith. But as criticism of their church rose to new heights during the campaign, they took on their antagonists like never before, in a wave of activism encouraged by church leadership. Mormon leaders and church members say they were initially unprepared for the intensity of attacks, which many say were unprecedented in modern times. The attacks, they say, are a sign that their long struggle for wide acceptance in America is far from over, despite global church expansion and prosperity. On the Internet, the Romney bid prompted an outpouring of broadsides against Mormonism from both the secular and religious worlds. Evangelical Christian speakers who consider it their mission to criticize Mormon beliefs lectured to church congregations across the country. Richard John Neuhaus, editor of the Catholic journal First Things, wrote that a Mormon presidency would threaten Christian faiths. Atheist author Christopher Hitchens called Mormonism "a mad cult" on Slate.com, and Bill Keller, a former convict who runs an online ministry in Florida, told a national radio audience that a vote for Mr. Romney was a vote for Satan.

(snip)

Among the most active critics were practitioners of evangelical Christian "apologetics" -- speakers and writers who make their mission to actively defend their faith. For some of them, that involves criticizing Mormonism. At the Life Point Bible Church in Quincy, Ill., last month, evangelical apologist Rocky Hulse told 35 members that Mr. Romney should not be considered a Christian. Mr. Hulse, a former Mormon, told the group that Mormons believe in more than one god and that they believe God impregnated Mary in the normal fashion, not by granting her a virgin birth. The audience sat rapt... In December, while campaigning for the Iowa caucuses, former Baptist preacher and Republican candidate Mike Huckabee asked a magazine reporter: "Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?" The Southern Baptist Convention, Mr. Huckabee's denomination, posts essays on its Web site saying Mormonism is a non-Christian cult... (Mr. Huckabee himself may face voter opposition for his religious views. The January Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll showed that 45% of Americans have concerns about an evangelical Christian as president.)


(snip)


URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120243323721852411.html (subscription)

[Olney Blue]

1. My husband's family are Mormons. They are some of the warmest, most

wonderful people I have ever met. I am bothered by anti-Mormon rhetoric as well.

[jody]

2. That's my experience also. n/t

[Warpy]

10. I find a few things to admire about Mormons

They don't have a hell to send people to, just shabbier parts of heaven.

Their thrift and their insistence that people plan for the future by keeping a year of staple foodstuffs at all time.

They don't blow cigarette smoke around the place or get drunk and puke on my shoes.

I certainly find their other beliefs no sillier than the Irish Catholic stuff I grew up with.

[Kitty Herder]

12. They do have a hell. It's called Outer Darkness.

That's where, as an apostate Mormon, I'm going. Apparently.

[Warpy]

17. Compare that to a hell or even a purgatory

It's a country club. The light's just a little poor.

I'm sure you'll be joined by all the rest of the religious apostates, myself included.

[fishwax]

20. not really -- the LDS Outer Darkness is a place of eternal suffering, of weeping and wailing and

gnashing of teeth. It is not, alas, a country club, even in the Mormon religion. Generally speaking, most people consider it reserved for mormon apostates, because they have had a "true" relationship with god and then rejected him.

For those raised in the church, I don't think the mormon version of hell is a warm and fuzzy, but rather can carry the same psychological threat/baggage it often does in other Christian religions.

[Warpy]

22. Well, at least it isn't modeled on the Phlegrean Fields

although how lava and stinky brimstone are supposed to affect the disembodied have always been one of Mother Rome's deepest mysteries.

[Chovexani]

3. I've really been ambivalent about the whole thing

The doctrinal debates are stupid--I don't care whether or not Mormons are Christians, and I find the whole debate rather insulting. As much as I hate Mittens, I kind of felt sorry for him as he flailed around screaming "HAY GUYS NO RLY I'M A CHRISTIAN" to the knuckledragging fundie Repuke base. Doctrinal debates have no business in politics and people shouldn't have to prove what religion they are to be part of the process. It's absolutely absurd. Anyway, there are multitudes of reasons why he'd make a terrible POTUS and his Mormonism is really far down that list. Being Mormon as such should not proclude anyone from being elected, no more than being gay or being Hindu.

OTOH I have HUGE issues with the Mormon church and their entire setup. I was relatively neutral on it, not having had much exposure to it growing up in New York, until I moved out here to Arizona and actually got up close and personal with it. I've had Mormon friends and co-workers, and they were easy to get along with, good hardworking people. It's when I talked to friends who'd left the church (all women, interestingly enough) that I got more of a picture of what they don't tell you in those shiny commercials.

I can't feel comfortable with any church that sets men up as the head of everything, discourages questioning, and says you are damned for eternity if you leave. Nor did that baptism of dead non-Mormons sit right with me. People can say what they want about it, they're dead what does it matter blah blah, but you know some of us are big on honoring our ancestors and that is a heinously wrong thing to do. Not that some of my ancestors would have been baptised because they were filthy blacks with the curse of Ham. :eyes: (And before some Mormon jumps on me, I know they got rid of that doctrine in the 70s, but that still doesn't make the doctrine itself any less disgusting). They're also just as obnoxious as the Christian Coalition types when it comes to pumping money into astroturf groups to fight against LGBT rights. IIRC, they've poured gobs of money into funding fights against equal marriage in various states.

[Realityhack]

5. Mormons are definately crazy but in fairness...

their baptisum for the dead is something they beleive the dead person can accept or reject. giving the non-existant person the chance to be 'saved' which isn't a particularly disrepectful act IMO

[question everything]

23. Baptizing Jews who died in the Holocaust was an insult to their memories

and any family members, seeing that the reason they were murdered in the first place was because they were Jews.


(There were reports about that a few years ago).

[Kitty Herder]

13. They may have allowed blacks to have the preisthood in 1978, but

I'm pretty sure they still believe blacks are descended from Cain and that because of that, blacks weren't "worthy" to hold the preisthood until 1978 when God suddenly forgave them for their supposed ancestor's sin. At least that's what I was taught in Mormon seminary as a teenager in the 90s.

And yes, they're misogynists.Do you have any idea how painful it is to believe in your heart of hearts that God hates you because you're a woman and that the only heaven that awaits women is that of being a brood mare in some Celestial harem? That's what I believed until I was 22 and finally left the Mormon church behind me.

They're also homophobes.

If I sound bitter, it's because I am. No ambivalence here. Sorry for the rant.

[question everything]

24. That's bad. Glad you managed to get hold of yourself and to leave an oppressing

environment. At least you could. I understand that Scientologists cannot.

[fishwax]

21. gotta agree with you about pretty much all of that

The misogyny inherent in the church is really disturbing--it's not just that the man is the head of everything, but women can't even control their own salvation, but have to get it through their husbands.

And the whole curse of Ham thing--I mean 1978! :wtf: Truthfully, they didn't even get rid of the doctrine in 1978 (it's still a part of the religious texts), but rather simply proclaimed that the curse no longer prevents blacks from entering the priesthood. This, of course, has hardly ended racism in the church--the church still, for instance, discourages interracial marriage.

And with respect to LGBT it is, as you say, the standard christian coalition bigotry.

[varkam]

4. If I remember my theist days correctly, Jesus said a lot about...

shunning those who don't think exactly like you...or maybe it was love and tolerance. Damn, my memory just isn't what it used to be...

That being said, I find it hard to have a lot of sympathy for the position that LDS finds itself in - mostly because I'm still pissed off about Mittens plea for religious tolerance while (simultaneously!) excluding atheists from the tent.

[Chovexani]

6. Atheists, gays, you name it

[TZ]

16. I grew up around several Mormon families

and work with one now. They were all just the NICEST people. And unlike most Christians, they all know that my family was Jewish/Secular but NEVER EVER EVER tried to convert us. I give them points for that. Although, I did get annoyed when I went to the local Mormon Temple a couple of years ago for their Christmas lights (I love holiday lights) and did get the feeling that they were trying to "recruit" visitors....

[Kitty Herder]

18. It's extremely unusual that they didn't try to convert you.

In my experience, most Mormons are only truly nice until they figure out they can't convert you. Or in my case, bring me back into the fold. After that, they're just barely civil. It's not their fault. They're taught from a very young age to see all non-members as potential converts. Of course, there are exceptions. Some are truly nice through and through no matter what, just like any other group.

Maybe you don't live in Utah. From what I hear, non-Utahn Mormons are a different breed entirely, far more tolerant.

And the Mormons I know are probably less tolerant of some one like me who was raised Mormon and actually left the church than they are of people who never were members. The very fact that folks like me exist makes some of them feel threatened. They don't like the idea that someone would actively choose not to be involved in their church.

My perceptions, of course, are a little warped from being lied to all my life and feeling like a worthless(read: female) human being because of those lies. Being freed from my belief in Mormon lies was the best thing that ever happened to me. So, yeah, I'm not objective and I admit it. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

[TZ]

19. Yeah I live in Maryland

And even though a bunch of them went on missions they never really spoke about them much. Really, except for the fact that they had large families (one with 5 children, one with 9) they really seemed no different...

[pingzing58]

7. I'm going to defend the Mormon's right to believe as they do. You and I know

that Mormon's have been "in the crosshairs" of U.S. citizens since Joseph Smith's murder in Illinois in 1844. While we Western Christians might consider ourselves civilized "tribalism" rears its ugly head in our midst making us no different than the warring factions of Islam; Sunni, Shia, and Kurds. Or, the warring tribes in Aghanistan, China, India, Africa, or Indonesia. Tribalism is an Archetype that dominates our most fundamental societal sense of belonging. Beware of anyone who preaches "US AND THEM" G.W. Bush got us into a war by erroneously alluding to the Gospel of Peace and saying: "if you're not with us you're against us." <http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/11/06/gen.attack.on.terror/> As a Roman Catholic I applaud the Latter Day Saints for their contribution to the value of family and community. I applaud the Church of Latter Day Saints for the gift of revel-ation through which the Holy Spirit has inspired their prophets to denounce the practice of polygamy and accept the Black race as children of God. As a Roman Catholic I lament the fact that since the Council of Jerusalem in c. 50 C.E. my Church will not change decisions that have been made based on culture and and time conditioned situations but will only attempt to reinterpret the pronouncements leading to little or no growth or development; i.e., Jesus was "incaranted" as a man and so only men can re-present him at the Eucharist (Mass) and women cannot. Oh, and women were not present at the Last Supper when Christ instituted the priesthood. It follows then, "that since women cannot re-present Christ at the Eucharist then there is something un-redeemed about women." This goes against Paul's teaching that "in Christ we are a new Creation, neither slave nor free nor woman nor man...." In my view it borders on heresy since if women cannot re-present Christ in the world then there is something lacking in their salvation. Since the Jesus the Christ did not fully save "woman" then there is a need for a Christ-a. A female saviour who is to come so that woman will be fully saved and be able to fully represent the Son of God in the world and that is heresy. That is the biggest error in the Theology of JPII and Ratzinger now BXVI.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

8. Excellent opportunity

Tell every Mormon you meet how those bigoted Republicans railroaded the Mormon candidate.

[Disturbed]

9. Romney said that he fully believes in Mormon Doctrine.

Mormons claim that Missouri is the site of the Garden of Eden. That alone is astounding!
This means that Romney rejects DNA Science. DNA Science has proven that the first Homo Sapians did not originate in Missouri. Should America have any Pres. that rejects
established DNA Science?

Most Religions are based on "Faith". Faith is belief in things that are unproven by Scientific Methods. Most Religions demand that their members believe in fantasies that their founders claimed to be facts yet no proof of these claims ever emerged over hundreds of years, as with the Mormons, or thousands of years as with other Religions. The Mormon Religion is not really any more fantastical than most others.

Most Mormons are nice people but that isn't the point of debate, is it?

[SecularNATION]

11. I'm delighted to see Mormons become dismayed.

Mormonism is a cult that has gained significant political power in the United States. What Lawrence O'Donnell said was exactly right. Their history and beliefs should be more widely known, because they don't present a pretty picture. Mormonism's founder was a con man and its ridiculous theology, and book, has absolutely no evidence to support it. Also, as much as I oppose fundamentalist Christians, I'm happy to see them scoff at the lie Mormons perpetrate. The lie that Mormonism is Christian. It isn't.

[Kitty Herder]

14. Think about this. If Mitt had become President (God forbid!),

he would have to answer to his Bishop for every aspect of his life in order to be certified worthy to attend the temple.

I wouldn't want a President who has to answer to some unelected, crackpot, low-level, lay clergyman for his decisions.

[Kitty Herder]

15. ooops. meant to be a reply to OP nt