I'm looking for quotes from Jesus to support a progressive as well as "transcendent"...

[DuaneBidoux]

By transcendent I mean the need to transcend to ever wider, deeper, and more caring perspectives on the Cosmos.

I know he said that the Kingdom is within us (I don't literally believe in a big guy upstairs but tend to see Jesus (and many others) as prophets.

I also know that Jesus NEVER spoke about homosexual marriage or many other topics that conservatives are hung up on but frequently spoke about topics progressives care about. I would like to be able to back up my conversations with my right wing "Christian" family.

Looked for many quotation websites but haven't really found a good one.

[Sal Minella]

1. This may help -- Jefferson worked with texts in several languages and all four gospels to collate

his "Bible." He left out the "miraculous" sections because his respect for Jesus was based on the teachings rather than on the folk stories about him.

[roughsatori]

2. "Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you."

That is from the Gosple of Mathew" Chapter 5

[elijah]

16. giving to the poor

Matthew 5 doesn't advocate government funding of programs....so lets make sure its in context. Any good christian should help the poor.

[Blue_In_AK]

3. There is a book called "The Gospel of Jesus"

by John Davidson http://www.amazon.com/Gospel-Jesus-Search-Original-Teachings/dp/185230720X which covers this topic extensively, if you can get your hands on it. It's one of my favorite spiritual books.

[54anickel]

8. Heh-heh, "typical libeal (sic) lies" - gotta love that review from your Amazon link. (n/t)

[Blue_In_AK]

12. I know. That cracked me up, too.

Some people are so closed-minded. This really is a very excellent book that approaches Jesus' teachings from the mystical point of view ... "the kingdom within" ... and draws the parallels with the other mystical traditions, which makes it much more plausible to this "typical liberal." LOL.

[roughsatori]

4. " Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"

Christ's words according to Mathew. Chapter 5.

[roughsatori]

5. "Blessed are the peacemakers". from the Sermon on the Mount

The Beatitudes

"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

[elijah]

17. rightousness & pure heart

what does rightousness mean? What is a pure heart?

[roughsatori]

6. You hypocrite, first

take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye. Jesus quoted in The Gospel of Luke.

[54anickel]

7. Hmmm, good luck with that right-wing "Christian" family. If they are like most of

mine, then anything that you bring forth that is not quoted from the King James or NIV version just won't matter. Even if you stay within their definition of "official" scripture, they will repeat the couple of quotes (usually from Paul's Epistles or the Old Testament) that they've had drummed into their skull that "prove" the rabid right-wing agenda's point.

Sometimes I find it easier to sort of turn it around so as to attempt to have them define "Christian" and try to bring that around to following the example of Christ. Once you get them past the "I believe" definition that's it's the faith OF not IN Christ you stand a little better chance - but not much. Certainly better/more interesting than exchanging Bible verses all day long though. JMHO :shrug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

9. There's a searchable full text of the King James Bible online

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/kjv/browse.html

When you find a verse, use this to look for its KJV equivalent.

Try Micah 6:8 on for size.

[54anickel]

11. Wow, I didn't realize the Apocrypha was in the KJV. I don't think my rabid family

would believe it. I've alway used http://www.biblegateway.com/ to refer to the KJV in the past. Thanks for the link.

Anyway, like I said even when I stay within their preferred version they'll just repeat the few quotes they've been taught to back up their claim...Guess that's the problem with the "pick 'n choose your verses" from either side. I'm not adept at verse wars.

Thank you for the beautiful Micah reference though.

[roughsatori]

10. Make sure you quote from the version of The Bible that they are familiar with.

I prefer the King James because it influenced literature to a such a degree. The KJV also is one of the finest texts for learning poetic form and rhythm.

I love the Douay-Rheims version because the word choice is more evocative of a mystical experience than the other translations.

I hate reading the New American Standard, version. It reads like a Time Magazine article. Bland as hell. But I do quote from that version as many people prefer the simplicity of language.


Make sure you use EXACT quotations from the version of The Gospels that your family reads. Give them the Chapter and Verse. They will run to their Bible to prove you wrong. And, like most Christians, may not know that there are many translations of The Bible. A majority of American Christians think The Bible was written in English. Survey after survey has revealed this fact.

And if you bring up the "Jesus Seminar, or "Q," you just might find your ass being burned at the stake.

[Adsos Letter]

13. Well...

you might ask them to consider Jesus' actions and attitudes towards others, and then remind them of this interchange:

"Phillip said to Him, 'Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.'"

"Jesus said to him, 'Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known me, Phillip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; so how can you say 'Show us the Father?' Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words I speak to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does the works.'" John 14: 8-10, NKJV

If they are militant regarding the need to combine Church/State (in any degree) you might remind them of this exchange:

Pilate asks Jesus if he is a king, and Jesus responds: "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here." John 18: 36, NKJV


Lots of people use "proof-texting" as a means to argument from the bible, but it often lifts things out of context. It isn't the best way to go, but if your family are right-wing fundamentalist types you may find yourself having to discuss on those terms. Try to get them to look at the larger picture, if you can.

Here is a link to an excellent site for looking up texts in a whole plethora of translations (I used the New King James Version because it is usually accepted by fundamentalists) and is a good site for bible study as well.

http://www.biblegateway.com/

Best of luck, and may God's Spirit be with all of you as you discuss.

[classykaren]

14. James 2

Show me a man that has faith and I will show you a man with good works because faith without works is dead

[elijah]

15. which verse

Which verse did he say "the kingdom is within us"?

[Why Syzygy]

18. The Golden Rule

Don't do the despicable things to others that you would not want them to do to you.

*There are many translations. All mean the same.*

All three major religions share this rule at their core. What would that world look like?