German Church admits aiding Nazis

[Pale Blue Dot]

Germany's Roman Catholic Church has acknowledged the extent of its involvement in the use of forced labour during World War II.

A 700-page report says 1,000 prisoners of war and some 5,000 civilians were forced to work for the Nazis in support of the German war effort.

They were drafted from 800 Catholic-run institutions across the country.

The Church had previously paid $2m in compensation to foreign workers who the Nazis had used for forced labour.

"It should not be concealed that the Catholic Church was blind for too long to the fate and suffering of men, women and children from the whole of Europe who were carted off to Germany as forced labourers," said Cardinal Karl Lehmann, the bishop of Mainz.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7337748.stm

[mac2]

1. Vanity Fair had an article about the Catholic Pope supporting Hitler

The Pope before this one (John Paul from Poland)....apologized for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II#Apologies

This is why the church and govenment should be separate. That kind of power by the two can be dangerous.

“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.” - Sinclair Lewis

[Botany]

2. Wait until everybody is dead than admit guilt ...

.... how about the church helping to smuggle out
Nazis after the war?

[mac2]

4. Wealth and power corrupts the church leaders

that's why Faith Based Funding today is dangerous.

[Lou Queb]

3. Religion walking hand in hand with fascism

[mac2]

5. That's because they want to rule absolutely not let the people.

They want a theocracy not democracy. People should be able to be "free thinkers". Where is Martin Luther when you need him?

Many of the RW churches today are very corrupted. The recent debate about Rev. Wright just shows how arrogant and wealthy they are. They want to run their own candidates for public office. With tax exempt status we have allowed them too much wealth and power to take over our government agenda and pick candidates for public office.

Afro-Americans who belong to those churches don't have a clue of what is happening to them. The vary thing which sustains them these many years which could remove their rights and freedoms.

Question the church leaders about their political agenda. Tell them they don't belong there but in God's house. Their tax exempt status could be removed. Demand accountability for the church funds.

Political meetings should be held in public facilities so there is no misunderstanding of any religious involvement of clergy or the politician seeking support.

[jwirr]

7. Not always. Have you heard of Dietrich Bonhoeffer?

[Lou Queb]

9. oops, I did not mean that of every religion...

...I meant in this case, about what happened in Germany.

And no, I haven't heard of that man, who is he ?

[jwirr]

11. He wrote "The Cost of Discipleship" while awaiting a death sentence

in a Nazi jail for working against them. He was killed along with Jewish prisoners in a ditch they had all been dumped in. He counted it an honor to die with them.

[mac2]

10. There are always a few good men in any group.

The churches are losing their clergy because of their political policies interfering with government.

The have not updated their ancient beliefs to todays Catholic families either. The new Pope is almost medieval in his doctrine.

The Catholic church is in a crisis over it and their hiding/ignoring the sex scandals.

[jwirr]

12. I agree, the church is losing more than just their clergy though. They

are losing respect when they play politics instead of sending a simple message of forgiveness. The RW churches have done more to destroy the church than any enemy they could imagine.

[struggle4progress]

14. "You don't know anything about it. You weren't there."

Years ago, I had a friend who grew up in Nazi Germany before the war. He fled the country as a teenager when his mother threatened to turn him over to the Gestapo after finding communist pamphlets hidden in his room. He said she hadn't a clue what she was saying

I once made an off-hand comment to this man, something like: I don't understand why the Germans didn't do more to stand up to the Nazis. He lost his temper. "You don't know anything about it. You weren't there," he said. From the beginning, Nazi control of the population was based on terror: early in the Nazi period, anti-Nazi work counted as treason and it carried the death penalty. Anybody, who paid careful attention to events, operated under enormous stress -- and many people simply contracted so far as possible into their private lives, trying just to survive. Anybody who continued to resist particular aspects of the Nazi program did so very quietly, because they were finished if they ever drew attention to themselves

As with other social sectors, those Catholic organizations, which were prescient enough to oppose the Nazis early, were quickly destroyed: their material resources were smashed or burned or confiscated and the people associated with them were detained or killed. At any time after the mid-thirties, when the Nazis were fully in control, opposition was a much trickier game -- and there is simply no possibility that you will understand the actual forms resistance took or the language that it adopted, if you insist on superficial sloganeering

[Lou Queb]

16. You are right, I owe you and everyone some apologies.

I made a mistake labeling to fast. It's a true reminder that we need to be carefull about what we say, what we think to know and how we express ourselves. thank you for pointing this out. ;-)

[Rupert Giles]

19. ...

I don't think that most of the germans actually knew what Hitler meant. The KPD said right from the start that "Hitler means war" and explained what would happen but no one listened. Some saw Hitler as a protection against "bolshevism" while others believed him to be a clown, a buffoon that would not last very long.

The mighty SPD saw their members killed by the SA but still they refused to listen to the KPD, they refused for form a common front against fascism and they did not want to hear about huge strikes against fascism. They did the same mistake as they did during the German Revolution, history repeated itself. They never got it until they were thrown into the camps themselves.

[struggle4progress]

6. Further links

German Church examines use of Nazi forced labor

Berlin, Apr. 9, 2008 (CWNews.com) - The German bishops' conference has released an exhaustive study .... "Forced Labor and the Catholic Church: 1939- 1945" ...

The study shows that the 5,904 people were put to work at Catholic institutions, on orders from the Nazi labor office. In most cases they worked in hospitals, orphanages, cemeteries or other institutions run by Church, rather than in parishes. In some instances the laborers worked on monastery farms or on cleaning crews ...

The report, prepared by historian Karl-Joseph Hummel, notes that the Catholic Church was suffering under heavy constraints during the period when the forced labor took place, and Church leaders faced active hostility from the Nazi regime. Nevertheless he argues that the Church should have condemned the use of forced labor ...

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=57727

German Church owns up to slave labour past
Wednesday, 9th April 2008. 3:57pm
By: George Conger.

... The report commissioned in 2000 ... found that during the war church institutions employed 4,829 civilians and 1,075 prisoners of war as slave labourers .... In 2000 the Catholic Church created a fund to pay compensation of 5000 marks to each surviving slave, and was able to identify 587 survivors through 2004 ... While a number of priests, nuns and lay were killed by the regime, and approximately 450 German priests were interned at Dachau, other Catholic clergy were willing supporters of the regime ...

http://www.religiousintelligence.co.uk/news/?NewsID=1858

Catholic Church Reveals Extent of Forced Labor

The Catholic Church .. issued a list of 5,900 people .. forced by the Nazis to work as gardeners, grave-diggers and hospital orderlies at Catholic facilities ...

The main historian, Karl-Joseph Hummel, said only a limited number of Catholic facilities had used forced labor, and at the same time, the Nazis had been persecuting the church.

Most laborers did not work in churches, but typically in Catholic hospitals and cemeteries, on farms run by monasteries or in domestic service. According to the study, most hailed from Poland, Ukraine and the Soviet Union.

In a radio interview, Hummel said the Church had failed by not speaking out clearly against the Nazi regime ...

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3253219,00.html

Church forced 6000 to work in Nazi era
By Madeline Chambers in Berlin | April 09, 2008

... Hitler's feared SS expropriated more than 300 monasteries and Catholic institutions between 1940 and 1942 and thousands of Catholics were sent to concentration camps, said Karl-Joseph Hummel, co-author of the book.

He told a televised news conference in the western city of Mainz the term "cooperative antagonism" summed up the Church's strategy at the time ...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23510294-12377,00.html

'Germany's Roman Catholic Church used forced labour'
9 Apr 2008, 0000 hrs IST,REUTERS

... The church, which has financed over 200 "reconciliation" projects, said final numbers will never be known ...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Germanys_Roman_Catholic_Church_used_forced_labour/articleshow/2935918.cms

'HISTORICAL BURDEN' FOR GERMANY'S CATHOLICS

... More than 10,000 clerics were evicted from their homes and a total of 2,720 clerics -- 1,780 from Poland and 447 from Germany -- were interned in Dachau concentration camp until the end of the war.

"An impression arose that National Socialism and the Catholic church were at least partly supporting each other, because the regime's plan to destroy the church wasn't started during the war years," said Hummel in a statement. Hitler had decided to shelve his fight with the church until after the war.

But the church did not do enough to distance itself from the Nazis, said Hummel. Its calls for love of fatherland, loyalty and sacrifice helped a government that was waging a racially motivated war of destruction, he said ...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,546146,00.html

[mac2]

8. Cheap labor today for religious organizations

Churches (mainly Catholic) today are allowed to bring in cheap immigrant "workers" and "foreign clergy". If they don't do as they are told, they are threatened return to their country. Sounds like the cheap Fascist labor to me.

In my area, I believe some churches are bringing in families and claiming them to be "workers". They are twisting the law and allowed to get away with it. A whole church does not become Asian over night. Might the Chinese be using this to bring their citizens here for whatever reason? Buy the Luthern church and pretend to be a religious organization? I asked my Republican State Representative to investigate it. I never got a reply.

[struggle4progress]

13. I'll just back away smiling and nodding while we wait for the nice people in white coats

[mac2]

15. I do know about it and I am here.

[struggle4progress]

17. Oh, please do feel free to support any of your claims

[Rupert Giles]

18. Everyone did, except the commies

Truth is that pretty much everyone helped the nazis, the only ones that actually fought them was the KPD (Communist Party of Germany) and some intellectuals.

Liberals, social democrats, conservatives etc. none of them did much to oppose Hitler, often they gave him their direct or indirect support. It is a great shame!

[rug]

22. Good point.

[Riktor]

20. You expect too much of people

Though it certainly doesn't justify the Church's actions, I challenge you to find a German institution that didn't at least superficially go along with the Nazis' slave-labor programs.

I think if you wanted to make a point about the role of the Catholic Church - and by "church", I mean its more archaic meaning: the Catholic people in their entire - you'd take a look at how the Church behaved in occupied and non-occupied countries. The fact that the Gestappo could at moment come knocking on the doors of any Church in Germany leads me to suspect fear may have played at least some role in the German church's complicit stance on slave labor.

[ZombieHorde]

21. The admittance of the thought of one's own fallibility is commendable.