Are Bodhisattvas gimmicks designed to help Buddhists?

[ZombieHorde]

A good friend of mine is a Tibetan Buddhist (he is actually a monk now). He told his boyfriend and I that Buddhas are the best at helping people and that they can reincarnate anyway they wish. (They are no longer dating since the whole monk thing happened.)

His boyfriend (a hyper-smart Catholic) asked why people vow to become Bodhisattvas instead of Buddhas since they are inferior at helping others.

My Buddhist friend said that he did not know.

I suggested that Bodhisattvas are a gimmick to help people overcome their attachment to enlightenment.

My Buddhist friend said; "I knew you would say that!" But he had nothing else to say on the matter.

What do my fellow DUers think? What is the point of Bodhisattvas?

[JackintheGreen]

1. Bodhisattvas volunteer to stay within the mortal realm

in order to help others achieve enlightenment. "Fully" enlightened buddhas, on the other hand, are out of mortal kenning and thus unable to help other reach nirvana.

The former have reached enlightenment but choose to stay "behind." The latter seem a little selfish to me.

[ZombieHorde]

4. That is what I thought.

But he said that Buddhas can reincarnate if they wish. He even said that Buddhas can even reincarnate as multiple people if they wanted to. He was the spiritual coordinator at the Tibetan Buddhist Center here in town, and about a month after this conversation he "took robes" or whatever he called it. I generally trusted him for my Buddhist queries.

Does it depend on the tradition?

Is the Dali Lama considered a living Buddha? I have heard him described that way on TV.

[Warpy]

2. Bodhisattvas pledge (among other things) not to become

fully enlightened until all other beings attain enlightenment. Theravada Buddhists are not too polite to point out what a traffic jam there will be if and when the universe comes to an end as all the Bodhisattvas are at enlightenment's door saying, "After you. Please!"

Even the most devout Mahayana Buddhist has to admit that this poses a particularly thorny problem for them.

Personally, I've always thought there was a little too much ego invested in the Bodhisattva concept. I am not qualified to be anyone else's savior, and I've never met anyone else qualified to be mine. I have, however, been fortunate enough to meet a lot of teachers and equally fortunate to have been able to teach a few others.

Of course, all this just points out the fact that I am a very, very bad Buddhist.

[JackintheGreen]

3. Bodhisattvas aren't "saviours"

rather they have found the right path and vow to help others do so too before they travel all the way down it. They don't pop out of the sky, touch you on the shoulder and, BOOM!, you're saved. That's what Jesus is for.

[TomInTib]

9. I thought that was Benny Hinn.

We sell a good many really old Bodhisattva carvings and, until just now, I never had any idea what they were about.

Another day at DU.

[TechBear_Seattle]

13. I've been playing with that idea for a book

An elderly man attains enlightenment just before the Boxer Rebellion in China, and dies in the uprisings. He makes the choice to return as a bodhisattva, and the story continues on with subsequent lives and the problems of being an enlightened soul in a more and more modern world. Finally, he realizes that his decision was a kind of attachment to the material world and he finds true enlightenment.

[Rageneau]

5. Since both Buddhism and Catholicism proscribe homosexuality...

maybe this monk and his Catholic ex-boyfriend are confused about some of the dogma involved here.

BTW, as I understand it, no one can come back as a "Bhudda." There was only one Buddha, teacher.

Buddhists believe in reincarnation, the idea being to eventually attain Nirvana. Theravada Buddhists stop there, as there is no place further to go.

Mahayana Buddhists (of which Tibetan Buddhism is a form) 'forego' Nirvana even after they have attained spiritual perfection down here (being thereafter reborn as Bodhisattvas), in order to 'help' less advanced souls attain perfection.

Politically and philosophically, therefore, Theravada Buddhists are Republicans. Mahayana Buddhists are Democrats, and Tibetan Buddhists are Third Party.

Of course, like Bush, I could be wrong about all of this.

In which case, unlike Bush, I'll admit it.

[ZombieHorde]

6. proscribe homosexuality...

My Buddhist friend was openly gay and he was chosen to be the spiritual coordinator. I believe that the director of the center is openly gay as well. None of the monks, nuns, or the Lama guy in charge seems to have any problem with it.

[Speck Tater]

7. One monk or another may take a stand on homosexuality,

but Buddhism itself has nothing to say one way or the other. The Buddha never addressed the subject. Each tradition, however, tends to inherit the prejudices of the culture in which it grew up. Modern Western Theravada Buddhism, for example, accepts homosexuality. Most monk I know, and the traditions I am most familiar with accept homosexuality as perfectly alright.

Take a look at these Dharma talks which mention the subject, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmjc0XuvROc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex5a4a40k6s

on edit: "Theravada Buddhists are Republicans?!?!?!" That's the most absurd thing I ever heard. Listen to the Theravada Dharma talks at http://www.dharmaseed.org/ or at http://www.youtube.com/user/BuddhistSocietyWA and tell me they sound ANYTHING like Republicans!!! Speaking as a Theravada Buddhist for the last 50 years, I've never heard anything so preposterous in my life.

[ZombieHorde]

10. Republicans?!?!?!

That is pretty harsh.

[TechBear_Seattle]

14. Lots of misunderstandings here

Common misunderstandings, but still... :hi:

1) Buddhism does not proscribe homosexuality. For the laity, Buddhism is pretty neutral regarding sex and takes an "informed consent" position. Monks (effectively, Buddhist clergy) are called to treat sex as any other attachment to the material world: sometimes useful, but essentially a distraction. That is with regards to all sex, not just homosexuality. And mind you, this is not a position that "sex is evil;" those who are serious about finding enlightenment are expected to be very moderate in their lifestyle and to take sparingly from the pleasures of life.

2) "Buddha" is Sanskrit for "Enlightened One." The Buddha refers to Siddhartha Gautama, the first in this cycle of existence to attain enlightenment. Buddha, as a general term, means anyone who has attained enlightenment. So yes, there are many buddhas, and most schools teach that every living thing is potentially a buddha.

3) There are only two main "denominations" of Buddhism, Theravada and Mahayana. Vajrayana, the form practiced in the Himalayas (including Tibet), is a form of Mahayana with many pre-Buddhist elements included. It is not a "third party;" it's more like "folk Catholicism" compared to official Vatican doctrines and teachings.

4) The distinction between Theravada and Mahayana is where the larger community fits in. Theravada holds that enlightenment is the result of individual effort; in the Mahayana school, the support of and participation in the community are essential elements. If you are going to make a political comparison, it would be more accurate to equate Theravada with libertarianism and Mahayana with communism. The Democrat and Republican angles come into play only when you divide all Buddhists, regardless of school, into closer adherence to the path of compassion (they need help, so I will help them) or the path of karma (their troubles are caused by bad deeds in this or a past life; if I interfere, they lose the chance to pay off that bad karma.)

[ZombieHorde]

8. It seems that many people believe that Buddhas can reincarnate.

Some say meditating boy is Buddha's reincarnation

KATMANDU, Nepal - A teenage boy has been meditating in a Nepalese jungle for six months, and thousands have flocked to see him, with some believing he is the reincarnation of Buddha, police and media said Wednesday.

Ram Bahadur Banjan, 15, sits cross-legged and motionless with eyes closed among the roots of a tree in the jungle of Bara, about 100 miles south of the capital, Katmandu.

He's supposedly been that way since May 17 - but his followers have been keeping him from public view at night.
A reporter for the Kantipur newspaper, Sujit Mahat, said he spent two days at the site, and that about 10,000 people are believed to visit daily.

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Link:
http://www.azstarnet.com/news/103974

[Lydia Leftcoast]

11. In Japanese Buddhism, there are several forms of the Buddha

The real person behind the story, the Buddha as "savior" (in some traditions), the Buddha who is yet to come, the Buddha who has always existed. A lot of it depends on which sect of Buddhism one follows.

The bodhisattvas play the same role in medieval Japanese literature that saints play in medieval European literature. They're always popping up when needed.

The most popular bodhisattva in Japan by far is Kannon (Chinese "Guan-yin"), commonly referred to as "the goddess of mercy," but originally a male disciple of the Buddha.

[Sanctified]

12. I personally would consider Jizo to be the most popular bodhisattva in Japan,

It is certainly one of the most prominent bodhisattva with statues everywhere.