Jordan cave may be oldest church

[greyl]

By Matt McGrath
BBC science correspondent

Church of Saint Georgeous in the northern Jordanian town of Rihab 10 June
The cave is beneath the ancient church of St Georgeous

Archaeologists in Rihab, Jordan, say they have discovered a cave that could be the world's oldest Christian church.

Dating to the period AD33-70, the underground chapel would have served as both a place of worship and a home.

It is claimed that it was originally used by a group of 70 persecuted Christians who fled from Jerusalem.

These early Christians lived and practised their faith in secrecy until the Romans embraced Christianity several hundred years later.
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[JCMach1]

1. This is pretty cool... interesting stuff they are finding...

My wife went to the probable site of Jesus' baptism in Jordan last summer.

[Silent3]

2. This is the church McCain attended when he was a kid.

:evilgrin:

[greyl]

3. working link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7446812.stm

[PunkinPi]

4. ...

""We found beautiful things. I found the cemetery of this church; we found pottery shards and lamps with the inscription 'Georgeous'"." "Georgeous"...it's a sign :tinfoilhat:! :rofl:

[John Gauger]

5. So are they saying

oldest church yet found, or that it is actually the very first Christian church ever?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. I'm sure they're saying the oldest yet found

but given the dates 33-70AD, it's undoubtedly one of the oldest.

[John Gauger]

7. I wonder how they arrrived at 33AD.

I have to wonder whether or not they are basing that on an uncritical acceptance of the Gospel narrative of Jesus's life. Seems like bad archeology to me, although maybe they have some evidence for arriving at that number.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

8. Based on internal evidence, Jesus was born in the "BC's"

For one thing, Herod died in 4BC, and Quirinius was governor of Syria in the BC's, although I forget the exact date. The whole "AD-BC" scheme was devised by someone whose historical sources for the dates of rulers mentioned were not quite accurate. (It was designed in 525.)

The 70AD part is the date of the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.

[Zebedeo]

9. Herod the Great died in 4BC

The Herod referred to in the Gospel story about Jesus' trial and crucifixion is Herod Antipas, who ruled from 4BC to 39AD. There were multiple King Herods in that part of the Middle East in those days, just like there were multiple "Caesars" in Rome.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

10. But Herod the Great, whom the Wise Men visited, is the one connected with

the story of Jesus' birth (and the one who built the temple that figures in the Gospels, as I recall).

Remember that Joseph decides to stay in Egypt with Mary and Jesus until he hears that Herod the Great has died, so Jesus has to have been born in 4BC or earlier.

[Zebedeo]

11. Yes

I thought you were referring to the Herod involved in the trial/crucifixion.

[John Gauger]

12. That's right.

Even if they are accepting everything written in the Gospels at face value, Jesus was not killed in 33 AD. We know that our current chronology is the result of flawed calculations. So 33 is not the earliest the little band could have been worshiping their risen martyr. It would have been, what, four or six years before that?

I have to wonder whether they are not actually pegging that as the earliest date and are just saying that to avoid controversy. I keep hearing people say that we have to tell this or that lie because people are too stupid to know the truth.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. According to my arithmetic, if Jesus was born before 4BC and

was crucified at the age of 33, then 29AD would be the earliest possible date for his crucifixion. But it's likely that he was born earlier, maybe as early as 11BC, so 22AD is possible as well. Given the small geographical distances involved, 33AD isn't impossible, but definitely a lowest limit.

[Kingofalldems]

14. I wonder what the services consisted of

Did they say Mass? Communion?