Outcry as clergy say calling God 'He' or 'Lord' encourages wife-beating?

[heidler1]

Church of England leaders warned that calling God 'He' encourages men to beat their wives.

They told churchgoers they must think twice before they refer to God as 'He' or 'Lord' because of the dangers that it will lead to domestic abuse.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-408190/Outcry-clergy-say-calling-God-He-Lord-encourages-wife-beating.html

I agree.

Opinions Please?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

1. It can lead to people internalizing the idea that males have divine authority over females. nt

[kestrel91316]

7. EXACTLY. That's why man made God in HIS image and not hers.

So she would be clear on who da boss were.

[CrispyQ]

2. When I was a teen my mother made me go through 'confirmation'

whatever that is. The only memory I have of it, other than it's intrusion on my Saturday afternoons, was when the preacher told us that God had no gender. I asked why we always refer to God as the father & 'he.' I asked why we couldn't come up with a special pronoun to refer to God since God has no gender. The other kids laughed & then so did the preacher. :eyes: I thought it was a valid question then & still think so.

[JerseygirlCT]

10. It was, and it is, a valid question. nt

[Taverner]

3. I would not ascribe a cause-and-effect relationship

This is a bit leap of logic.

[ThoughtCriminal]

4. God has a penis?

What for?

[heidler1]

5. Mary might know.

[damntexdem]

6. I don't know whether it encourages wife beating.

But She might prefer something other than "He." ;-)

[knitter4democracy]

8. I think men who beat their wives use that as an excuse.

They want power over someone. It's that simple. They have a deep need to control someone else, whether it's their wife, girlfriend, or child, and they will use whatever means to explain away that need that they can.

Men have used many and myriad excuses to hang onto their social power for eons, from religious to scientific to social crap. There's no reason to assume that this is anything different.

[JerseygirlCT]

9. Good for them

I don't know about beating... that seems to be a few steps farther along that road. But insisting on portraying God as male certainly underlines the idea that women are secondary humans. I'm all in favor of gender-neutral language in church! I think it's one of those situations where our language *shapes* our understanding - even if it's on a sub-conscious level.

God is all genders, and none.

[and-justice-for-all]

11. Religion/Church is sexist..

They have that "A women should be see and not heard' motto.

[Ian David]

12. 1 Timothy 2:11-15

2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

More:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/1tim/2.html




http://www.morethings.com/fan/carrie-sissy_spacek/piper+laurie-martyr_mom05.jpg

[Occam Bandage]

13. "He," maybe, but "Lord?" Is "Lord" now a sexist term? How else should you translate Adonai?

[John Gauger]

14. That's one of the stupidest fucking things I've ever heard.

Who the fuck are these people? You know what I think would encourage men to beat their wives? Saying, "Beat your wife." Anything less than that and you have a rather heavy burden of proof in terms of showing causality.

Additionally, doesn't their opinion as to whether or not god is indeed male have any bearing on the matter? Of course, the very fact that they are in church shows that they have little if any regard for fact to begin with.

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. Remember the story is in the biased, RW Daily Mail

The report itself, primarily how the church and clergy should respond to domestic abuse, points out

we have chosen to adopt the more wide-ranging term
‘domestic abuse’ which views violence in a broader context of
behaviour over time

and gives, among examples, as well as 'physical' and 'sexual':

Psychological
For example, shouting; swearing; frightening; blaming; ignoring or humiliating
someone; blackmailing them; threatening harm to children or pets if they
misbehave; ridiculing every aspect of their appearance and skills; keeping them
deliberately short of sleep; being obsessively and irrationally jealous; keeping
them isolated from friends and family; threatening suicide or self-harm.

Financial
For example, the illegal or unauthorized use of someone’s property, money,
pension book or other valuables; forcing them to take out loans; keeping them
in poverty; demanding to know every penny they spend; refusing to let them
use transport or have money to pay for it.

Spiritual
For example, telling someone that God hates them; refusing to let them worship
(e.g. not allowing a partner to go to church); using faith as a weapon to control
and terrorize them for the abuser’s personal pleasure or gain; using religious
teaching to justify abuse (e.g. ‘submit to your husband’), or to compel
forgiveness.

So it seems reasonable to say that the language and attitudes in a religion could possibly be a cause of those.

[John Gauger]

17. I'm the last person you need to convince that religion can be harmful.

I am always astounded that people are offended at the claim that ideas can be dangerous. Nationalism, for instance, is a terribly dangerous idea. And I certainly understand that ideas can lead to or facilitate abuse. But the gender of a a deity that does not even exist is not something that I would reasonable expect to engender abuse.

[hendo]

15. Thats just insane n/t

[Dr. Strange]

18. And women who walk around without burqas encourage rape.