Dinesh D'Souza and Christopher Hitchens set for second debate on religion

[The Night Owl]

Listening to Dinesh D'Souza for any length of time makes me feel like I've been yelled at for hours, but I am looking forward to seeing him yet again defeated by Christopher Hitchens...

An Absentee God?

Posted Jul 9th 2008 12:01AM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Christianity, Controversy, Atheism

What happens in Vegas doesn't always stay in Vegas. On Friday July 11 the libertarian conference FreedomFest will have, as its featured event, a debate on "Christianity, Islam and the War on Terror" between Christopher Hitchens and me. The media will be there, and the organizers also expect to have the debate up on the web. (Just in case Richard Dawkins is listening, I'll have to remember not to use Hitler-style shrieks and yells.)

In thinking about this debate, I'm reminded of an argument that Hitchens made in our New York debate last October. At that time I did not know how to answer his point. So I employed an old debating strategy: I ignored it and answered other issues. But Hitchens' argument bothered me.

Here's what Hitchens said. Homo sapiens has been on the planet for a long time, let's say 100,000 years. Apparently for 95,000 years God sat idly by, watching and perhaps enjoying man's horrible condition. After all, cave-man's plight was a miserable one: infant mortality, brutal massacres, horrible toothaches, and an early death. Evidently God didn't really care.

...

http://news.aol.com/newsbloggers/2008/07/09/an-absentee-god

Yeah, about the shrieking and yelling... do take it down a notch, asshole.

The first D'Souza versus Hitchens debate on religion can be seen in its entirety here...

http://www.tkc.edu/debate/

[MindPilot]

1. Listening to Hitchens makes me want to find an AA meeting

It bothers me that Hitchens has become the de facto spokesperson for atheism. He makes no attempt to hide his hatred of Arabs and the one time I saw him in person openly advocated genocide. Hitchens' only problem with Bush is that he has so far confined the bombings to conventional weapons in only two Muslim countries.

D'Souza has no cogent argument beyond "god exists because everything else does".

[The Night Owl]

2. What has Christopher Hitchens said or written that make you convinced that...

...he hates Arabs?

[MindPilot]

3. When he was at the FFRF convention last October

He said essentially that Islam is a way bigger threat than Americans will acknowledge and we need to reduce their numbers and more bombs would be a good way to do that. He called Obama an "idiot" and sid that Guillani was the only American who truly understood the real threat.

I'll try and find the exact quotes.

[The Night Owl]

4. Weak

The fact that Christopher Hitchens has disdain for Islam does not mean that he hates Arabs.

[MindPilot]

8. Here are the last two paragrahs of his speach at FFRF

"Eschatology is inseparable from religious faith. It wants this to come to an end. It seeks our destruction. It thirsts for it, and it sometimes plans for it. That's what's happening to us now, so I am not happy at the way in which these clouds are gathering, not as in the corner of our eye but increasing directly in our vision. And so, rather than just leave you with a pessimistic thought, I want to leave you with one that I hope slightly pisses you off. In Katha's speech last night, from the literature table that I saw in the back, and in many of the conversations that I've had on the side here, I would've gotten the impression that we were all met here to tell Jerry Falwell to fuck off. That's not true at all. I don't think anyone's done much more than I have to rubbish the Christian Coalition, to ridicule them, to oppose them, to thrash them in their own heartlands, to denounce them in print. It's a necessary job, very important to do. But it's not the whole story.

You haven't really come out, you haven't declared yourself bravely to be an atheist and to be defending civilization against clerical barbarism, if all you've done is denounce some moon-faced Christian Coalitionist or some bum-faced Jesuit child-molester. That should be the elementary duty of a citizen, and many nonatheists are capable at least of doing that. No, in order to say you've taken on the battle, you have to say that you are taking on jihad, the most virulent, the most dangerous, the most evil, the most pernicious, the most systematic attack that secular civilization is currently facing."

He made it abundantly clear in the Q & A session; that's when it really got nasty. See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leZCH5BfGB4&NR=1

And more:
http://christopherhitchenswatch.blogspot.com/2007/10/some-more-comments-on-ffrf-meeting.html

When it comes to bombing brown people, McCain looks like a pacifist next to Hitchens. Still think it's "weak"?

[The Night Owl]

9. Yes, your case is still weak.

What you are trying to pass off as hatred of Arabs is clearly antipathy for religious extremism... an antipathy I share. To suggest that the antipathy Hitchens expresses in regard to religion is rooted in some kind of racism is not accurate and not fair.

[MindPilot]

10. OK I'm wrong and I bow to you vastly superior intellect.

I was there and got to personally experience his anti-Muslim vitriol and you didn't, but clearly you know more about him than I do.

[moggie]

11. Why do you equate "Muslim" with "Arab"?

Most of the Muslims I've known aren't Arabs. You seem to be mixing up religious belief with ethnicity.

[MindPilot]

12. Because Hitchins didn't make the distinction.

It was very clear being in the same room with him that's what he meant--Islam, Muslim, Arab, terrorist, jihadist are pretty much all the same--he didn't make much effort to separate race from religion when he said they should be bombed "to reduce their numbers".

I'm convinced also that--although he didn't come right out and say it--one reason he renounced his British citizenship and became an American is because there are too many Muslims in Britain for his liking.

[varkam]

14. I agree, but that's my .02.

I think that Hitchens and Harris both view Islam, at least the extremist variety, as infinitely more dangerous than any other religion - which I also agree with.

[Jim__]

5. Based on the title, it doesn't really sound like a debate on religion.

Hitchens certainly doesn't speak for me with respect to the "war on terror", and I wonder where he and D'Souza will disagree on this topic.

[varkam]

15. I don't think Hitchens speaks for any of us on the war.

But he does make some valid points on religion.

[TlalocW]

6. I don't much care for Hitchens

But having him debate D'Souza is like swatting a fly with a Buick. I think D'Souza is a just a glutton for punishment. He went on both the Daily Show and the Colbert Report pretty close together and got his ass handed to him both times. The time on the Colbert Report, I don't think he realized it because of Colbert's right-wing caricature of a character.

TlalocW

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Please, Dinesh, just go away

You all know the story of how Dinesh D'Souza became a big-time conservative, don't you?

He came to Dartmouth as a naive immigrant lad and happened upon a gay dance being held in the student union. Shocked out of his mind, he asked who on campus was against such "abominations" and was directed to the Dartmouth Review, that famous right-wing rag.

He visited one of the campuses I taught at to rail against affirmative action. Knowing something about the way Ivy League schools run their admissions programs, I'm almost positive that D'Souza got into Dartmouth because he received extra points for being an immigrant.

[struggle4progress]

13. Two war-mongering nincompoops discuss religion! How exciting!

[Occam Bandage]

16. Has Dinesh D'Souza ever won a debate with anyone, ever? Ah, well.

Hitchens, on the other hand, is an interesting case. He advocates killing Muslims en masse, because extremist Muslims are violent people who threaten peace-lovers. Evidence, I think, that religion is not the cause of violence, but rather an excuse.