Eucharist taken from Cathedral tabernacle

[struggle4progress]

By Elvia Aguilar (Contact), Stuart Duncan (Contact)
Originally published 04:20 a.m., July 15, 2008
Updated 04:20 a.m., July 15, 2008

The Eucharist was stolen Friday from the tabernacle at Corpus Christi Cathedral on the 500 block of North Upper Broadway, police said.

Corpus Christi Police Lt. Raymond Lara said the Eucharist, the consecrated bread used in Catholic Mass, was taken after someone entered the church through an open door. The exact time of the theft has not been determined and there have been no arrests made in the case, Lara said.

Corpus Christi Cathedral officials would not comment when reached Monday.

-- Stuart Duncan and Elvia Aguilar



Professor who threatened desecration claims to have consecrated Hosts

Morris, MN, Jul 16, 2008 / 01:11 pm (CNA).- University of Minnesota Morris biology professor and science blogger Dr. Paul Zachary Myers, who last week threatened to desecrate the Eucharist and to broadcast the act on the internet, says he has acquired Eucharistic Hosts consecrated at a Catholic Mass ...

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=13261

[Kutjara]

1. I'm not sure how the professor in the second story...

...could have got hold of "consecrated hosts." The wafer is consecrated during the mass, and any not consumed by the congregation are eaten by the priest at the end of Holy Communion. Unless the professor ran up to the altar, bopped the priest over the head right after he blessed the Eucharist, and then ran off with the goods, I can't see how he ended up with anything other than just normal unchristified triscuits.

[Goblinmonger]

3. Not true.

Consecrated hosts are often commonly kept in the tabernacle. If there are hosts there, the candle next to it is lit. I would say it is more unlikely that there would be NO hosts in the tabernacle.

I am often amazed at how little people know about the Catholic faith and practices (that includes many catholics).

[Kutjara]

7. Interesting. I am one of those (former) Catholics...

...of which you speak. I never knew that unused hosts are retained after the mass. Indeed, I distinctly remember one of the nuns at my parochial elementary school telling us we all had to take communion, because otherwise the priest would have to eat everything we didn't, and that would give him an upset stomach. I'm beginning to suspect she may not have been entirely truthful with us...

[Goblinmonger]

8. I'm a former catholic, too

graduated from a high school seminary.

Your nun was not necessarily lying to you. Often if there are not a lot of extra hosts, the priest will often consume the rest (or the lay ministers administoring the eucharist will, too). If there is a lot extra, into the tabernacle.

BUT, it is very rare that there is not consecrated eucharist in the tabernacle. The fact that the body of Christ is in the tabernacle is the reason that you genuflect when you come into the church. You are technically supposed to genuflect while facing the tabernacle (with the eucharist) and everytime you cross in front of the filled eucharist. In one chruch I was a member of, the tabernacle was in a praying room in the back and it amazed me that everyone genuflected to the altar and not when they went in front of the prayer room. Way more than anyone needed, I'm sure.

[Kutjara]

9. Now that's something else I was never told (or never listened to if I was).

I've always thought that when you genuflected toward the altar, you were actually paying your respects to the image of Christ on the cross, hanging there on the wall. I didn't realize you were actually acknowledging the "real" presence of Christ in the tabernacle.

I think it's fortunate I became an atheist. I would have made a lousy Catholic.

[Dorian Gray]

33. Goblin...

Where did you go to a high school seminary?

My husband went to Cathedral Prep in Queens. He's actually currently teaching in a Catholic High School, but his seminary high school was a HELL of a difference from the one he's teaching at now.

You mentioned seminary before, but I forgot. It's so fascinating that you went to a seminary high school. I think that at my husband's, there were about 40 kids in his class. It was tiny.

[Goblinmonger]

40. In North Dakota

And I'll give you tiny--I had 13 in my graduating class. The high school is no longer open. They have some high school students that live there for religious formation but they go to high school at the private Catholic school in town. The college program is still there (they get a degree in association with NDSU).

I still have very fond memories of the experience and the priests and nuns that taught us. I actually just got in contact with 3 other friends from high school through facebook.

[rox63]

4. Maybe they had leftovers after Mass?

:shrug:

[Realityhack]

61. Unless...

a member of the congregation takes some and fails to eat it, then leaves?

exactly like the incident that started the issue.

[evlbstrd]

2. And it's not even GOOD bread.

[Goblinmonger]

5. So you are saying

that PZ is engaging in theft (or supporting it)? Or is it just a coincidence that these two stories are next to each other in your OP?

It would be very easy for me to get a consecrated host to PZ if I so wished. It doesn't take a magician to palm the host at communion. I doubt PZ wants/asks people to commit theft for him to get hosts.

[varkam]

12. It's all part of his satanist plot. eom

[beam me up scottie]

13. It's a crime wave! Crackers are being kidnapped all over the country! (or is it cracker-jacked?)

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[struggle4progress]

34. Let's see. (1) Identify a group of people as being responsible for most of the

world's problems. (2) Be sure to include historical grudges, stretching over hundreds of years, and don't care much about historical accuracy. (3) Continually ridicule the people and their beliefs, trying to spread this ridicule to the largest audience possible. (4) Encourage disrespect for and desecration of the people's religious symbols. (5) Show no sympathy whatsoever when the peoples' religious services are disrupted or their places of worship are attacked: this, of course, is more-or-less certain to happen because there are idiots among your listeners. (6) When some idiot, among the people you are insulting, over-reacts be sure to be filled with righteous outrage: this, of course, is also more-or-less certain to happen, because there are idiots among the people insulted, and among those whose religious services are disrupted or whose religious symbols and places of worship are attacked. (7) Rinse and repeat.

This is nothing new. It is as disgusting as it ever was

[trotsky]

38. Thank you for laying out your plan.

(1) Identify a group of people as being responsible for most of the world's problems.

You believe this group to be atheists/satanists, as evident from your posts. Got it.

(2) Be sure to include historical grudges, stretching over hundreds of years, and don't care much about historical accuracy.

Blaming atheists for the usual trio (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot), throw in some Hitler, and for contemporary examples, hint that all church vandalism is done by them too. To heck with accuracy.

(3) Continually ridicule the people and their beliefs, trying to spread this ridicule to the largest audience possible.

Yup, you're doing that too with your attempts to link satanism with atheism and your crusade of posts in this forum.

(4) Encourage disrespect for and desecration of the people's religious symbols.

Atheists don't have any religious symbols, but you are certainly fostering disrespect, that much is clear.

(5) Show no sympathy whatsoever when the peoples' religious services are disrupted or their places of worship are attacked: this, of course, is more-or-less certain to happen because there are idiots among your listeners.

Getting no hint of sympathy from you for people who don't believe like you do, either. Of course no one's place of worship has been "attacked" due to crackergate, but that's one of those accuracy things you have problems with.

(6) When some idiot, among the people you are insulting, over-reacts be sure to be filled with righteous outrage: this, of course, is also more-or-less certain to happen, because there are idiots among the people insulted, and among those whose religious services are disrupted or whose religious symbols and places of worship are attacked.

"Righteous outrage" is what crackergate is ALL ABOUT. You have certainly been on a tear lately trying desperately to link atheists with whatever group of misfits or lawbreakers you can.

(7) Rinse and repeat.

Yup, getting a LOT of repeating from you.

Thanks again for spelling it all out, though the pattern was pretty clear before.

[willing dwarf]

6. Sensationalism for its own sake

The faithful see Christ crucified, his body broken and his joy laid low every day in the eyes of the poor and marginalized. -- The Holy Presence in the Eucharist is not to be worshipped as an end in itself but to move our hearts to pity and compassion for our brothers and sisters.

When we receive the Eucharist and keep our eyes closed and our hearts stoney to the cries of the poor, we are already desecrating the body of Christ. -- Before receive the gift of the Host, we say "Lord I am not worthy but only say the word and I shall be healed." That statement is an acknowledgement of our own failings and shortcomings. That we can never live up to the gift we are about to receive, and it is only by grace that we receive it.

SO-- all that said to say that there is no way that that professor could do anything to the body of Christ which we have not all done already. So it's not a worry. Just another thorn in the crown of our own making.

Peace.

[struggle4progress]

10. Good theology but bad politics. These theatrics mostly help rightwing anti-evolution organizing. And

they have the further effect of reinforcing hate speech directed against a religious group: unfortunately, there is a steep and slippery slope from hateful speech to hateful acts

[willing dwarf]

20. Your right, but there's still more....

I think you are absolutely right about that slippery slope

-- And off topic I suppose but I'll just throw in the thought that it's opposite is also true --going through the motions of doing what seems good, like --for those of us called to it-- going to mass, even when we don't feel like we're able to be "all there" helps us get a little closer to the mark. Something about linking words to action that has been prayerful before can brings us to a place where prayer becomes possible again.

But beyond that too, sometimes taking a stand and doing something extreme and flamboyant like whatever this professor has done may have an unexpected impact on the person trying to take the action. I actually believe in the effective power of the eucharist to heal, and so I can imagine a scenario where this professor is actually smitten by the numinous aspect of the holy contained in the host.

Can sometone tell me who this man is? Am I missing something about who he is?

[beam me up scottie]

22. Hateful acts. You mean like the death threats the student received from christians?

And the christian websites with posts advocating violence to get the cracker back from him?

Yeah, looking back at the history of christianity, it isn't so much a slippery slope from hateful speech to hateful acts, is it?

It's a six lane freeway littered with the corpses of all the victims murdered by the church and its followers.

[struggle4progress]

51. Indeed the slippery slope, from ridiculing groups of people for their beliefs

and cheering people who disrupt their religious services, to more hateful acts (such as vandalizing churches) is easily slid down by quite a few people: desperate attention-seekers and isolated nutjobs are quite abundant enough across the whole political spectrum

I would harbor doubts about the mental health of anyone who emails death threats in response in internet stories. So if the kid in Florida received death threats, he should certainly report them to the appropriate authorities: the fact that he has inconsistently changed his story repeatedly on other matters, of course, does not mean that he is lying about this issue, though it might well color somewhat the reception his claims receive

[beam me up scottie]

53. An atheist gets mad and steals a cracker. Christians get mad and threaten to beat and murder people.

Gays, native Americans, muslims, jews, witches and other assorted infidels have all suffered at the hands of christians who think they don't have to answer to mans' laws.

That mental state of mind seems to come naturally to people who have for centuries been programmed to believe they are morally superior and have the right to torture, maim and kill those deemed "non-christian" or even "not christian enough".

Or for the hideous crime of stealing a cracker.

Go ahead and keep apologizing and making up excuses for the current witch hunt, because after all, according to your religion, the kid and PZ deserve everything they get.

[varkam]

57. Next thing you know, we'll be burning Christians in the town sqare.

:eyes:

Oh, and who has been advocating vandalizing churches?

[Feron]

63. Professor Myers has gotten death threats as well.

In fact a woman named Melanie Kroll lost her job last week because her husband used her work e-mail for his death threat.

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/071608-woman-fired-over-death-threat.html

Christians are no more civilized than their Islamic kin.

[moggie]

11. That's terrible

And I know the Catholic church is always short of money, so we should set up a collection to replace it. That would be, what, about $0.01 per cracker? Still, perhaps we should wait for the result of the police investigation first.

[pegleg]

14. You guys would be having a cow if something like this happened in a mosque.

[Book Lover]

15. What a false argument!

Seeing as how there is nothing comparable to the host in a mosque...

[pegleg]

37. Tossing a porkchop into a mosque would be quite comparable

and pure bigotry. very little difference as far as I'm concerned, but certainly par for the course at DU. And since so many Catholics are dems, nothing like insulting your own voters. you do wonders for the party.

[Book Lover]

45. Sorry, no.

Catholics believe the consecrated host is God. There is simply nothing comparable in a mosque.

Your "very little difference as far as I'm concerned..." tells me you aren't a catholic - listen to this former one, please, when I tell you about the symbology of the church.

And if you *are* a catholic, well, you were educated poorly.

[pegleg]

48. The bottom line is that something sacred to one group of people

has been purposely desecrated and subjected to ridicule. That is pure bigotry. It is wrong and it has no place in the democratic process or party. All of this is irregardless of my personal beliefs or yours. The Eucharist as you well know, is central to Catholicism. It doesn't matter what that cracker is or is not, but rather what it represents. And the action of "kidnapping" that cracker was directed at what that cracker represents and not at just a cracker. It's not going to phase the catholic church one bit, nor the person that did it. But by condoning this sort of thing doesn't help the democratic party nor DU one bit.
When you say that there is nothing comparable to it in a mosque, the fact remains that it is possible to insult both religions or any other religion for that matter, by directing your actions at the physical and spiritual elements of the religion. All religions perceive both a physical and spiritual dimension to life. Atheism recognizes only the physical. However, very few atheists that I know would OPENLY scoff at other's spiritual beliefs because of tolerance. When the religious OPENLY debase atheists - they too show a lack of tolerance and need to be seen for what they are - they are bigots. And again that has No PLACE in the Democratic party.

[cosmik debris]

16. I'm not so sure

A lot of this is a reaction to the drama created by a certain person carrying a large chip on his shoulder.

[pegleg]

17. MOO!

[cosmik debris]

18. No, not that kind of chip!

:)

[pegleg]

19. That was good

[knitter4democracy]

25. Give it a rest.

Sheesh.

[TZ]

30. Umm I thought the Muhammed cartoon controversy

was pretty ridiculous too...

[Goblinmonger]

41. Having fun building that strawman?

And Muslims worship crackers?

[Evoman]

47. No, but they pray towards a piece of meteorite.

Although, I think that's somewhat less weird, for whatever reason, than a cracker.

[Feron]

64. Someone sent PZ a koran...

and he is going to desecrate it along with the crackers on Wednesday.

So fear not Christians with fatwa envy!

[beam me up scottie]

65. "Christians with fatwa envy!"

:spray:

You kill me!

:rofl:

[rug]

21. I will never understand why people who think it's a cracker feel a need to mock it.

[cosmik debris]

28. Perhaps if you didn't mis-characterize it as a "need"

You would be able to grasp the concept.

As long as you can only think of it as a need, you're right, you will never understand.

[rug]

31. What do you call it, a healthy impulse?

[cosmik debris]

39. Why ask me?

I'm not the one who admitted to the problem.

Your inability to understand is apparently blocked by your need to demonize those with whom you disagree. Apparently their misdeeds were not vile enough for you so you have to characterize them in a way that makes it easier for you to hate them.

I suspected that was your goal in the first place. You certainly don't show any signs of effort in understanding.

[Goblinmonger]

42. The mockery

is toward those that over-reacted to the kid at the Florida university.

[rug]

55. There is mockery there also.

But what's the point in mocking the wafer by taking it hostage?

[TZ]

23. More cracker gate!

Good lord..Poor persecuted Catholics..they are sooo persecuted they can't even eat their holy crackers in peace...Must be rough to be soooo persecuted in this country...So persecuted no politician will acknowledge them or ever be seen anywhere in the vicinity of a church and the Pope..why he never EVER gets any attention....

You should bring this to Obama's attention RIGHT FUCKING NOW! This matters way more than ending the war in Iraq or Universal Health Care or people having their houses foreclosed on....

[beam me up scottie]

24. Yeah! We need to petition Skinner to start a forum just for kidnapped and abused crackers.

Nice touch with the RIGHT FUCKING NOW!

:rofl:

[rug]

27. That's what you got from this article?

Let me ask you this. For what possible reason does someone need to break into a church and steal what he considers a cracker?

I'll settle for one plausible explanation.

[TZ]

29. If it was one article

I probably wouldn't care. The OP seems to be obsessed with this whole cracker gate..and I'm trying to make the point the more he/they make a big deal about this, the more ridiculous they look. Yeah so the person "desecrated" the church..I guess that makes death threats acceptable...Remind me HOW this is different from a fatwa on Soloman Rushdie?
Its kind of like the idiotic outcry about the Muhammed cartoon awhile back..

[moggie]

35. You know who took it?

I think someone who steals altar bread from a church is probably a nut: it isn't the act of a reasonable person, unless they were penniless and hungry, and it was a lot of wafers. But since we don't know who took it, we can't say what their attitude is towards its cracker-ness.

[Goblinmonger]

43. I'll tell you why they "need" to do this

because they're nuts. This isn't a rash of people breaking in to steal the host for PZ Myers. I could get him multiple consecrated hosts everyday if I wanted to without having to break into a church. You don't have to be David Copperfield to palm a wafer at church.

[Evoman]

46. How do you know the thief considered it "just a cracker". Maybe he just wanted an extra helping of

Jesus bites. He had some extra sins that one cracker just couldn't satisfy.

[rug]

56. Maybe he's just another asshole.

[Evoman]

58. Likely, either way.

[knitter4democracy]

26. They called the cops?

I can't imagine our priest doing that. Praying, sure, making sure nothing else was stolen, yeah, and I can even see him praying over everything and throwing holy water around (he's quite liberal with it). I can't see him calling the cops, though. Weird.

Why not let it be? Let the power of God work through it. Kind of like my Bible that was stolen--maybe the person who took it needed it more than I did.

[uberllama42]

32. If you're concerned about kidnapping,

there are many human beings who have been kidnapped that I am sure would appreciate your concern.

[struggle4progress]

52. I'm concerned about groups of people that organize to ridicule others for their beliefs, cheer the

those who disrupt religious services, and pointlessly promote the desecration what others regard as sacred

[beam me up scottie]

54. But not by groups of christians who advocate violence to get even with someone who took a cracker.

Yes, the cracker kidnappers are much more dangerous than the cracker keepers. :eyes:

[Evoman]

36. Stealing crackers is almost as weird as thinking they are being magically transformed.

I mean...if PZ was serious, he should just do nasty things with an unconsecrated cracker. Then when the priests get all mad, you show it to them and say "syke, bitches, it ain't real jesus. What you couldn't tell because they are the same fucking thing?"

How anybody could actually be motivated to steal a stupid cracker is beyond me. I had one once, and it didn't taste that great (the juice was also too sweet...I think jesus was a diabetic).

on edit: when I was writing about the crackers being transformed, the transformers sound (che ku ku ku che) came into my head. hehe.

[Evoman]

44. p.s. I love the word tabernacle.

It's fun to say.

"I got crackers in me tabernacle."

[knitter4democracy]

49. *snarfgle* That's funny.

:rofl:

Great. Now I'm going to be saying tabernacle all day.

[trotsky]

50. It sounds like it could have come from the Dana Carvey "grumpy old man" character.

Back in my day, our communion crackers were made out of rocks, and you broke all your teeth every Sunday and you LIKED IT! Flibbity floo, tabernacle!

[SidDithers]

66. Tabarnac! is a French Canadian swear word...

in fact, much of Quebec swearing is Church related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French_profanity

maudit tabernac! is a particular favourite :)

Sid

[knitter4democracy]

68. Makes sense: Zounds comes from "His wounds"

Nasty bit of swearing from the Middle Ages in English. Same with "'Odsblood" and "'IsBones". I can see how taking a word referring to God or His Church in vain would be considered swearing.

Now, if only I could figure out why Sacre Bleu is considered a swear word . . .

[asteroid2003QQ47]

59. The genius of Bill Hicks on Christianity

"I did that joke in Alabama, in Fife, and these three rednecks met me after the show. 'Hey, buddy! C'mere! Mr. Funny-man, c'mere! Hey, buddy, we're Christians, and we don't like what you said.' 'So then forgive me.' Anyway, later, as I was hanging in the tree..."

Good luck with that, Bill.

[Occam Bandage]

60. How mature. Let's reinforce negative stereotypes of ourselves for no reason but petty spite!

[asteroid2003QQ47]

62. "Theft" was a gift from "God"

Meyers gave the church an opportunity for much needed positive publicity and the dumb bastards blew it! As a display of "true Christian charity" all they had to do was forgive the perps in a very public way. No amount of money can buy what that spin could have provided and Meyers gave it to them for free.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.
--James Madison

[Ian David]

67. Maybe it Transmorgified and walked away?

Below: A Transmorgified Eucharist leaves the church


"Goodbye! Goodbye!"




A parade of Transmorgified Eucharists going god only knows where.





"Airport please... international departures. I've got to catch a flight to Jerusalem."