Jewish Group Wants Mormons to Stop Proxy Baptisms

[The Sushi Bandit]

Story at: http://current.com/items/89514715_jewish_group_wants_mormons_to_stop_proxy_baptisms

[mucifer]

1. yes we do! It's CREEPY!

[bluemarkers]

3. yes it is.

insulting too.

[grantcart]

5. creepy doesn't begin to touch on it

[Kali]

2. so do us athiests

:rofl: lots of old family friends are LDS, I'm sure everybody in my family has been secretly dunked.

[ZombieHorde]

4. I wish that the article went into the details concerning why they don't want Mormons to preform this

ceremony. As it is, I have to guess, and my guess may be wrong.

[rhiannon55]

10. My guess is that it's disrespectful

It's extremely arrogant of Mormons to think that anyone who was not Mormon when they were alive needs to be baptized by Mormon priests. My mother was furious when she found out that my brother, who converted to Mormonism as an adult, had her devout Baptist parents posthumously baptized.

[bluemarkers]

12. trying to get into heaven, or on a planet or

something like that.

this is one of many sites that address this issue.
http://www.carm.org/questions/baptismfordead.htm

[Ian David]

13. When you die, can I posthumously baptize you into The Church of Satan? n/t

[Goblinmonger]

17. When I die

you can posthumously baptize me into whatever church you want. I'll be dead. I won't care.

[beam me up scottie]

14. Green Stamps.

[moobu2]

15. I think It has to do with ongoing christian attempts at holocaust revisionism.

[Meshuga]

16. It is a "we let you be so please let us be" plea

Judaism is about identity and this action by the Mormons is seen as an act of disrespect because they are baptizing people who were murdered for the simple fact that these people held Jewish identity.

Let's say an outspoken atheist who fought for his/her rights was murdered by a group of religious fanatics. Then another religious group goes out of their way to "save" this person by baptizing him/her. How would people who identify with his cause feel about this? It is silly and stupid, I know, but the actions are still disrespectful.

But the case here is that you explain all this to a group of Mormons and their reaction is to say "fuck it, we'll do it anyway."

So, how does one react to that?

[cosmik debris]

18. I ran across a similar situation

When I visited the Wounded Knee Memorial. It saddened me to see that the final resting place of the brave non-Christian natives had been turned into a Christian cemetery. It seemed like a final insult to noble people. It just wasn't enough to massacre them, they had to pretend that they had converted them in death.

Sad.

[Meshuga]

19. It is as if their culture being wiped out was not enough

Very sad indeed.

[moobu2]

21. Well, this is always about identity,

whether the posthumous baptism concerns a jew, catholic, atheist or whatever. These Mormons are rewriting the persons true historical identity, replacing the truth with something untrue, it’s insulting as well, but, it does alter historical records that could conceivably cause confusion with future generations. I picked up on this part of that article where there was an agreement with this Jewish organization to specifically exclude Jews who died in Nazi concentration camps, because the records could conceivably be used by holocaust revisionists in the future.

Only the Jews have an agreement with the church limiting who can be baptized, though the agreement covers only Holocaust victims, not all Jewish people. Jews are particularly offended by baptisms of Holocaust victims because they were murdered specifically because of their religion.

Michel suggested that posthumous baptisms of Holocaust victims play into the hands of Holocaust deniers.

"They tell me, that my parents' Jewishness has not been altered but ... 100 years from now, how will they be able to guarantee that my mother and father of blessed memory who lived as Jews and were slaughtered by Hitler for no other reason than they were Jews, will someday not be identified as Mormon victims of the Holocaust?" Michel said today.

This is a Direct link to the article, you can go to the article in the OP and click on the link at the top to read the entire article as well.

[Meshuga]

24. That is an important point you brought up about revisionism

I agree with you since I think that is also the case. Especially when a lot of people who perform ancestry research use the LDS resources since the Mormons keep a huge comprehensive database.

What I mean about identity being important in Judaism is not that it is not important in other religions. What I mean is that identity in Judaism is the glue that makes us a people. In other religions the belief system is the glue but in Judaism belief is secondary. The debate between the Jewish movements is not about belief (even though there is a variety of beliefs and lack of beliefs) but about which group has the best method to keep the brand alive.

So I can see how Holocaust survivors (who went through all that just for being Jewish) would see the actions of the Mormons who perform these baptisms in a similar way as one would see, with sadness, the burial grounds of non-Christian Native Americans smeared with Christian symbols, much like what cosmik debris described in his post above.

[Tikki]

6. I plan on going into the witness relocation program right....

before I die...then they can proxy baptize some name that isn't me....


Tikki

[Ian David]

7. I have a clause in my will that says they can't do this to me.

Meanwhile, since I am an ordained minister, if anyone here has dead, Mormon relatives, I would be happy to posthumously baptize them into The Universal Life Church.

[texanwitch]

11. I will join you as another ordained minister of The Universal Life Church.

Lets get busy, lots of Mormons to get to.

[Sebastian Doyle]

8. Baptizing holocouast victims? Haven't those people been through enough already?

Let 'em enjoy their afterlife for Joseph Smith's sake!!

[MountainLaurel]

9. Wonder if there's a way to un-baptize someone

My uncle's wife is LDS, and she baptized all of the ancestors she could find, including my very Roman Catholic great-grandfather, none of whom would be real appreciative of having their names in the rolls in Salt Lake.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. They have also been known to baptize living people without their knowledge

My mother's name was on a family tree chart that an LDS person posing as a regular researcher got hold of. She assumed from Mom's date of birth that she was deceased and went ahead and had her baptized by proxy, then posted it on the internet, where I found it. Said researcher never returned my emails, and the LDS church wouldn't do a thing about it.

My point is you may laugh about them doing it to the dead and wonder what difference it makes--but they don't stop at the dead. And I feel that is just plain wrong.

[The Sushi Bandit]

22. I used to go to the LA LDS to do research

on my family... it is a great facility. I didnt know about the sealing thing then.

[elshiva]

23. Yes, I know about this. Jewish people have every right to

be angry at this practice. It's an insult.

[beam me up scottie]

25. How would mormons feel if their dead were dug up, brought to muslim cemeteries,

placed sans coffins, on their right sides facing Mecca and left to spend eternity in unmarked graves?