Dad links Son's Suicide To 'The God Delusion

[CaptainObvious]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81459

A New York man is linking the suicide of his 22-year-old son, a military veteran who had bright prospects in college, to the anti-Christian book "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins after a college professor challenged the son to read it.

"Three people told us he had taken a biology class and was doing well in it, but other students and the professor were really challenging my son, his faith. They didn't like him as a Republican, as a Christian, and as a conservative who believed in intelligent design," the grief-stricken father, Keith Kilgore, told WND about his son, Jesse.

"This professor either assigned him to read or challenged him to read a book, 'The God Delusion,' by Richard Dawkins," he said.

Jesse Kilgore committed suicide in October by walking into the woods near his New York home and shooting himself. Keith Kilgore said he was shocked because he believed his son was grounded in Christianity, had blogged against abortion and for family values, and boasted he'd been debating for years.

[Schema Thing]

1. Couldn't have been that foul upbringing you provided, eh dad?

[Warpy]

3. That would have been my guess

plus whatever the military had put him through.

[Lubernaut]

9. My guess would be mental illness.

Depression affects people of all backgrounds and upbringings.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

14. And depending on the particular denomination of the kid

his view of depression or any mental illness could have been dangerous. I remember learning that in some pentecostal communities that pastors would faith heal the mentally ill (since mental illness is caused by demons/evil spirits) and then have the patient throw away all of his or her medicine. Any relapse would mean that the patient was morally deficient or rejected God somehow. If that kid was unfortunate enough to come from a background like that, it would be no wonder why he'd hide it or fail to treat it.

[MountainLaurel]

47. Very similarly

I was taught in a Baptist church that mental illness really doesn't exist -- that psychology is just another sign of Man's selfish nature. So if you feel depressed, it means your faith isn't strong enough (which makes you more depressed).

[Tarc]

2. That his son was so weak-willed that he couldn't handle seeing his faith challenged

is not the fault of a book.

[LaurenG]

4. Wow I'm sad that he killed himself

I think there are many people unready to be challenged about their beliefs but most of them don't kill themselves over it.

I'm thinking there was more to this story than what is being told.

[FiveGoodMen]

5. He encountered the idea that this life was all he'd ever get -- so he ended it?

Really?

Really?

[ComtesseDeSpair]

11. That's so dumb.

I am an atheist and it makes me appreciate this life all the more knowing that it's all I'm going to get. I want to make the most of it - I'm not gonna waste it thinking that a glorious afterlife is awaiting me. This is complete B.S.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

6. Something's rotten in the state of Denmark.

I don't trust the source. The religious right have lied too often for me to take any of their stories at face value. When a more established, "legitimate" news agency covers the event, I'll believe it (although I really do hope this story is a lie).

[zonmoy]

40. I wouldn't be surprised if the father or someone from his church

wasn't in the woods with the kid to make sure he killed himself for apostasy.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

7. A shattered father's denial.

And someone in the background filling his head with delusions.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. That's awesome.

:thumbsup:

[Lubernaut]

10. A suicide is awesome?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. Blaming the book is awesome.

I'm reminded of all that Satan worship caused by Dungeons and Dragons.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

15. Thanks for clarifying.

And I was just reading something about D&D and the Satanism scare the other day. Weird.

[ZombieHorde]

23. "D&D and the Satanism scare"

The first edition D&D books looked Satanic. One of the ones that I have has a mostly naked woman lying on a demonic looking alter on the cover. The first edition Dungeon Masters book for AD&D had a large picture of a red demon on the cover. The first Monster Manuals were filled with nude drawings of naked devils and demons. D&D is now owned by Hasbro, and the presentation of the books reflects that ownership.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

24. Interesting.

I know we're going off on a tangent here, but I find it interesting that to this day D&D is the target of conservative Christians despite the only real connection between "satanism" and the game was in that early art. I'm surprised they don't go after games like Deadlands or Call of Chtulu in which characters openly consort with evil spirits.

[ZombieHorde]

25. I believe that it started when two people killed another.

The clue that helped to break the case was that the murders' plan was written on the back of a D&D character sheet. The story was on the news, and this was the first time many people have ever heard of D&D. Sensational murder news + demonic looking art = freak out time

[Marrah_G]

37. I would bet they do disapprove of them, but D &D is the biggest target.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

26. Don't be too quick to dismiss tthe roleplaying/suicide link entirely.

I am an enthusiastic roleplayer, and while I would heartily recommend it as a hobby to other people, I have had a moderately serious episode of depression triggered (although possibly not caused) by roleplaying.

I don't know of any reliably-documented cases of roleplaying leading to suicide, but I no longer dismiss the possibility out of hand (although I'm sure other hobbies can too, so that's not a reason to avoid it).

I no longer find Jack Chick as comical as I used to.

[Locrian]

12. twisted

That website is wickedly twisted. If you replace all the ranting about "evil atheists" with "fundamentalists" you can see the hipocracy.




"The Marketing of Evil" reveals how much of what Americans once almost universally abhorred has been packaged, perfumed, gift-wrapped and sold to them as though it had great value. Highly skilled marketers, playing on our deeply felt national values of fairness, generosity and tolerance, have persuaded us to embrace as enlightened and noble that which all previous generations since America’s founding regarded as grossly self-destructive – in a word, evil."

[moggie]

21. It's worldnutdaily - what do you expect?

WND is a seething pit of wingnut stupid generally not regarded as a suitable news source for quoting on DU, except in the "look what the idiots are saying now" sense.

[stopbush]

16. Aren't "grounded" Xians also against suicide?

How stupid can people get.

I'll put TGD up against the bible any day. The Bible causes people to kill others...perhaps (and a BIG perhaps, at that) TGD caused this one person to harm himself.

BTW - I highly recommend The God Delusion. Read it twice myself.

[FiveGoodMen]

18. "I highly recommend The God Delusion" -- Me, too!

One of the best non-fiction books I've ever read.

[JDPriestly]

17. Maybe this young man was depressed because of his Christianity

not because of the challenges to it. I know a lot of atheists. They are not suicidal. Atheists have only this life to live for. It's Christians who think they might be better off dead and with God.

This father may have been the young man's problem. You never know, but the last one to take the blame will be the Christian dad.

[moggie]

19. The father sounds like a piece of work

"I'm all for academic freedom," Keith Kilgore said. "What I do have a problem with is if there's going to be academic freedom, there has to be academic balance.

"They were undermining every moral and spiritual value for my [son]," he said. "They ought to be held accountable."

He suggested the moral is for Christians simply to abandon public schools wholly.

"Here's another thing," he continued. "If my son was a professing homosexual, and a professor challenged him to read [a book called] 'Preventing Homosexuality'... If my son was gay and [the book] made him feel bad, hopeless, and he killed himself, and that came out in the press, there would be an outcry.

He makes a pitch for homeschooling and Christian colleges, and has a wholly irrelevant dig at gay rights. He's using his son's death as a platform.

Aren't colleges supposed to challenge their students? If you want to go through life without having to examine your beliefs, don't go to college! It can be tough for some students, which is one reason why the college in question provides counselling services.

[DeSwiss]

29. Do you have any idea what the hell he means by "academic balance?"

Specifically. And in a biology class? He's talking about putting ID into the classroom, right?

If so, that's not balance, that's garbage.

I hate thinking this, but from the sound of his BS, he appears to be warming up to a lawsuit.

- And of course providing the basic outline of the later book deal. Pathetic....

[moggie]

33. Almost certainly ID

The father mentions that the son supported ID, and "academic freedom" is the line that creationists are pushing now, since "teach the controversy" hasn't worked out so well for them. Is NY one of the states where creationists have put forward an "academic freedom" bill? If not, expect to see the "Jesse Kilgore" bill soon.

[zonmoy]

41. He is most likely talking about replacing legitimate science with

creationist bullshit not even disguised as id. and banning anything that dares oppose it.

[charlie]

42. He called his son's best friend the "about only other Christian" on campus

Tells you what you need to know right there. If the other few thousand Christians weren't fit to be called such, Dad's got major issues.

[ZombieHorde]

20. His son just killed himself.

Saying fucked up shit while suffering from extreme grief may be normal.

[charlie]

22. He had a couple of MySpace pages

http://www.myspace.com/jesse_underdog

http://groups.myspace.com/dadebate

[Dorian Gray]

27. You can't blame something like this on a book

He was either predisposed to depression and/or suicide or he wasn't. No amount of reading something that would challenge your beliefs would lead one to kill themselves.

Very sad for the family, though. They're grasping at straws to grapple with this, obviously.

[Feron]

28. That's very sad.

Sometimes a depressed person can disguise it well. I wish he had gotten help in time.

And while I feel for the father, his anger is misplaced. In this case there is nobody to blame. Hopefully in time he will come to realize that.

Walling yourself away from the world may be a natural response to something like this, but it does not prevent senseless deaths or tragedy. Nor is it a good solution to a problem.

Atheism doesn't cause a person to despair. For me at least, it gives me a new appreciation of how precious life is and how we must make the most out of it.

And while life can be grim sometimes, there is always hope. I just wish that young man could've known that.

Finally shame on Wing Nut Daily for exploiting a grieving father in order to push their agenda.

[Starry Messenger]

30. Here's a user on Digg claiming to be his dad.

http://digg.com/world_news/Popular_Atheists_book_leads_to_suicide_of_college_student?t=20956685

First comment. Interesting.

"I once had a soldier come to me and say, "Chaplain, I don't believe in God anymore because of all the evil in the world, like what Stalin did." My reply was, "if there is no God, then what is wrong with Stalin did?" Can you answer that one? What hope and comfort do you have to offer me in our grief? What meaning and purpose for life do you offer? Could it be that a Creator who was powerful enough to so fine tune the Cosmos designs it so that the only way we can come to God is by faith thereby preserving our freedom to obey or not to obey, to love or not to love? It would also preserve God's right to hold us accountable for our actions
I have found that most atheists hold their position not on the strength of their arguments, but rather to cling to the licentiousness their position offers.

Sincerely
Keith Kilgore
[e-mail]"

I'm sorry about this death. But it takes a special kind of person to use your son's suicide to grind an axe about god, church and education.

[Starry Messenger]

32. found on Unscrewing the Inscrutable.

http://www.schoolandstate.org/view/display.php?state=NY

Keith E Kilgore
Fort Drum, 13603
Chaplain Keith Kilgore is a United States Army Chaplain. Is endorsed as a Chaplain by the Southern Baptist Convention. Chaplain Kilgore served in Operation Iraqi Freedom in Kuwait and Iraq
Why I Signed: I remember the day my High School principal confiscated my Bible for just carrying it in the hallway. That was the first time (but not the last) I was persecuted for my Christian faith. The discrimination did not come from some foreign enemy, but from my own puplic high school. I should not have to separate my faith from my education. Moral and spiritual values should be the foundation of my children's education. Why would I send my eight year old Christian son, to a 40 year old socialist, relativist, and athiest to undermine every moral value I want my child to hold? And then be expected to pay that teacher my taxes to corrupt my own child

[Warren Stupidity]

38. Damn! That made me put down the baby cheese melt sandwich

and reconsider my atheism. While thinking about it I shot my wife and her damn dog. Fuck it, I'd have to live a less licentious life if gave up my bitter guns and atheism.

I'm still puzzling over why this god had to go make a stalin. That bit sort of went unanswered.

[DeSwiss]

31. Thank you Captain Obvious!

- No really. I mean it!!!

[FM Arouet666]

34. Yes Virginia there is no Santa Claus

Looks like the kid couldn't take having his world view destroyed by reason. Blame the atheist for providing a rational denunciation of religious belief?

Sad, the kid had a brain until he chose to blow it out in the forrest. I would wager a bet that the reason behind the suicide was the realization that he could no live up to his father's expectations which were firmly grounded in religion. The real criminal is the dad, filling his child's head with religious nonsense.

Religion is a mental illness.

[bluesfan1000]

35. they should replace all priests with trained psychologists

then maybe people who are looking to get help would find a more balanced opinion than a priests.

[Nihil]

36. A "military veteran" at 22?

Between the likely effects of active service and the near-abusive
egocentric attitudes of his father (as posted up thread), I'm not
that surprised that the kid killed himself. He must have been so
torn inside about the conflict between what he has seen, what he
has read, what he has understood and the vindictive bullshit from
his family (and presumably community) when he got back.

Sad.
:cry:

[knitter4democracy]

39. I feel bad for his dad that his grief is taking this tack.

There are a million reasons his son ended his life, I'm sure, almost none of which had to do with a book or class. Maybe he was gay and couldn't deal with it and his faith and his dad's issues. Maybe it was what he'd seen in the military. Maybe he'd fought depression for years and lost the fight. Who knows, but I would money on it that it wasn't the book or the class.

[moobu2]

43. They have a tendency to place blame for their children’s shortcomings

on ‘evil’ books or videos or TV or movies. It’s an easy out for them rather than looking at themselves.

[JerseygirlCT]

44. I'm afraid that sometimes when people's faith is so brittle, it's

that easily broken. That's a real worry with people who hold such absolutist beliefs - they can't withstand any doubt, any questions. As sincere as it is, it's just not built for questions.

And of course, a student at a college ought to be asked questions. And asked to ask questions. How sad that his worldview wouldn't support any deviation without crushing him.

[MedleyMisty]

45. I don't think it was just the book at all

It's like another article I read where the parents of a runaway blamed it on some MMO he was playing. I know that people can get horribly addicted to MMOs, but generally from what I've seen playing WoW those who get addicted do not have ideal family situations and good support systems to start with.

The dude is obviously not the best of fathers (I really think that fundamentalism, and perhaps religion in general, has its basis in the cycle of child abuse), and his son had been in Iraq. I think that being in combat in Iraq on top of growing up with a crazy abusive father would be more than enough to drive someone to suicide. The book was not the sole reason. Not even close.

I can't understand religion at all, but I can find empathy and understanding for those abused by it. That poor boy - and I find that I can't even be all that angry at the father, because he must have grown up just as abused and damaged.

I highly recommend the book "Born Again", by Kelly Kerney. In fact I think I'll go re-read it. It's YA fiction, I think, but IIRC the author said it was pretty autobiographical. It's the story of a teenage girl in a fundamentalist family who starts reading The Origin of Species.

[prostock69]

46. The God Delusion is not anti-christian. Have you read it?

I have as well as several over books And I'm a former Christian and now I'm an Atheist (not because of his book). It simply gives the case against there being a god, any god, whether you are a jew, christian or muslim, hindu, etc.

[BurtWorm]

48. I have to admit, Dawkin's argument for suicide almost got me too.

:eyes:

More likely the poor kid was depressed by the collapse of right-wing ideology this fall. Or he's always secretly hated himself and wanted to die.

[and-justice-for-all]

49. "shocked because he believed his son was grounded in Christianity"

apparently he did'nt really know his son.