Atheist DUers and their children

[TokenQueer]

I am an atheist and so is my sister (much to the chagrin of others in our family). Every Christmas and Easter we find ourselves drawn into a debate about our non-beliefs with the Jesus Crispies in our family. Well meaning relatives that behave as if my sister is offering her child's soul to the evil horned one by not letting her attend their medieval ceremonies. I am so proud of my sister for refusing to give in to these sanctimonious individuals and wholeheartedly support her efforts.

My niece is almost eight years old and she has started asking quite a few questions about which people in her life are Christians. This is, no doubt, in response to comments she is hearing from her contemporaries at school and around the neighborhood. Just last week I was listening to a conversation between my niece and a friend from across the street. Here is the brief exchange.

My niece: "Have you heard about an eclipse? It's when the moon moves between the Earth and Sun; and blocks out the sun." (She had just watched a television show where this was the topic of the day).

Her friend: "Oh..the moon? God lives on the moon."

My niece: "Ummm...ya know... I'm not really a Christian."

Interesting that my niece is not saying "I don't believe in God". She is, instead, informing her friend of her non-Christian status. She seems to have come to this conclusion on her own since the only direct question I have received from her is the the straightforward "Are YOU a Christian?" and my "No, I am not" response.

My sister asked if I would have a conversation with her daughter about both non-believers and the devout. After hearing Daniel Radcliffe come out this week as an atheist, I thought this might be a good starting point ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/harry-potter/5734000/Daniel-Radcliffe-a-cool-nerd.html ).

I would love to hear stories, advice and pitfalls from fellow atheist DUers about experiences with their own children.

[YOY]

1. Um...what kind of "Christian" are you dealing with?

As an Agnostic and a parent I really have to say that when you say "Christian" you could be talking about just about any denomination...from crazy Evangelicals/Pentecostals/Southern Baptists to mainstream churches to even some of the more "liberal" branches.

Some of my best friends are "Christians" by the broad categorization. None of them are from the crazies/fundies.

You see...nobody actually likes the fundies...no matter what faith they are subscribing too.

Everyone just sort of tolerates their intollerance...

[rurallib]

2. Welcome to DU, TokenQ!

My kids turned me. I was raised Catholic and fell away in my teens.
As my kids were growing I felt they should get some religious training if for no other reason that so much literature and other references based on the bible. But I couldn't stand to go to church.
As they grew, they met and married boys that had been raised much as they were religiously. Both SILs were basically atheist. After some long discussions I slowly converted to their 'beliefs'. Hard to give up that catholic training that is beat into your head as a child.

[Christa]

3. My son was a youth pastor

until he became an atheist and he turned me.

We started a website and is going from strength to strength.

We have a parenting forum, should you wish to talk

http://atheisttoolbox.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=24

Take care

[snooper2]

13. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was looking for something like this!!!!

I've already been through 5 different threads :)

:hi:

[Christa]

18. You are so welcome!

We should unite and support each other in this religion crazy world.

BTW, I am Luci there ;)

[gkhouston]

21. LOL, being a youth pastor would turn anyone. I'm surprised he didn't take

up Satanic worship. :evilgrin:

[Christa]

28. If he believed in Satan he may have

but we all know that a bad guy was needed, and hey presto: Satan was created :evilgrin: :rofl:

[beac]

30. I am the atheist "godmother" to three siblings. I'm bookmarking your site

in case they have questions down the road. Thanks!

[MindPilot]

4. My family has learned to accept me despite my wicked heathen ways

But it is tough because even the most "real" Christians--the folks who actually follow Jesus' advice--still feel they have an obligation to save your soul and that of your children.

I'll grant the concern is genuine on their part, but it can be real frustrating when the grandparents want to send your kids to a retreat or summer bible school.

My son is now 30, and solidly atheist despite the rest of my family's attempts to christianize him when he was younger. I always told them, "sure take him to church with you--if he wants to go--but only to experience what it's like. Don't force it; he will find his own path.

[panader0]

5. After my divorce, in which I was awarded custody of my three kids,

my ex said she was going to start taking them to church (Catholic). I went to the church and spoke with the priest. I said they would be attending a service, but that I, as their custodial parent, would NOT allow them to become Catholic. My ex's religious conscience ended after two or three sevices. They are now 16, 16 and 17, and if they want to "join" a religion, they can at 18. They don't. Just like dad, they are non-religious.

[Voice for Peace]

6. advice. don't try to influence her thinking - except to encourage her to try to find out for herself

what is true. If she wants to know whether there's a God or not, tell her it's a great question -- and encourage her to seek the answer for herself as she grows up.

[MNDemNY]

9. No! Point out the FACTS. Make sure she realizes that the "religious " point of view is NOT valid .

There are not 2 valid sides to this, there is only facts, and superstition. And on edit, it is NOT a "great question".

[Voice for Peace]

15. we have a difference of opinion.

If you encourage a child to think for him or herself, question, challenge -- it works much better than trying to control her point of view.

Let her figure it out for herself. Caution her about people -- including atheists -- who may try to convince her to believe what they believe.

And don't forget that the same facts look very different to different people, depending on where they stand.

"Facts" are way overrated -- simply because we are subjective interpreters of facts.

[rd_kent]

41. Puh-LEASE!

Facts are NOT overrated!

Fact #1 - There is NO proof of a god, the existence of a god or that a god has any influence over anything. Its not subjective or look any different form any point of view.

Fact#2 - Those that choose to believe in a god do so in blatant refusal to accept fact #1, even when confronted with other facts proving fact #1. Thats why they call it faith.

I tell my daughter the FACTS, and let her decide for herself what to do with them. I refuse to perpetuate superstition as I want a rational, free thinking daughter.

[SidneyCarton]

45. Fact #3

There is no conclusive proof of the nonexistence of a God, or that said being has no influence over anything.

If you're going to state facts, state them all.

[rd_kent]

51. Wrong, try again!

One cannot prove a negative. The claim is being made that a god exists. Where is the proof? Show me proof and you have another believer.


I guess I can turn it around on you, as I believe there are other lifeforms in the universe (commonly referred to as aliens). Please provide proof that aliens do not exist.

[E_Pluribus_Unitarian]

11. Good advice!

As Jefferson said, "Question with boldness even the existence of a God!" If more people would think for themselves, and question what the authorities claim to "know" in matters of religion and "ultimate Truth," and agree to let others do the same, then we'd have a lot less strife in this world, don't you think? And, by the way, I got the same treatment from my family when I became a UU many years ago. They (Southern Baptists all) acted like some kind of intervention was needed.

[Stargazer09]

20. I just went through that!

My neighbors are Reformed Baptists, and when I told them that I was joining one of the local UU churches, they tried to talk me out of it. Said that UU doesn't "teach the Bible." I didn't have the heart to tell them that the Bible isn't everything in life. I did mention that I have a huge problem with the whole "men are better than women" thing, and they tried to tell me that their church teaches equality. Unfortunately, their version of equality consists of "men have a leadership role, while women have a nurturing role, but they really are equal!" Yeah, right.

My favorite bumper sticker is the one that says, "Coexist." All of the letters are made with various religious symbols. Even people who share a religion have different religious beliefs (whether they admit it or not), so why can't we all just get along?

[Stargazer09]

19. I think that's the best thing to do

I remember how unhappy my father was when he talked about being forced to go to church all of the time when he was a kid.

Some people find comfort in religion, while others are more comfortable seeing religion as superstition. Children should be allowed to make their own choices while knowing that their parents will love them unconditionally, no matter what they choose.

[BurtWorm]

36. But if children go to their parents to talk, it's irresponsible to say, "You're on your own."

You owe it to your child to tell her what you think. That's why she's asking you. It's up to you to show her how to think about these things--not what to think, but how to attack the questions.

[BurtWorm]

35. I wouldn't be able to stop myself from asking her what she meant by God.

And taking it from there. If she says an old man in a cloud, would you say, "Great question, honey. Only you can answer that question."? I would want to spend more time with her on that, to explore what it means to know something, etc. You don't have to give her the answers, but telling her it's up to her to find that out for herself won't be very satisfying for a genuinely curious child. She's coming to you because she wants to think about it out loud.

[Kali]

7. I was raised by athiests

- I don't recall ever having a conversation about it with my parents. I remember my grandmother, who was probably mildly religious but not a churchgoer by any means admonishing my sister and I once when we were making fun of one of our friends for screaming "oh God, save me" on a ferris wheel. She said it wasn't nice to make fun of people just because they believe in god. She rarely got mad at us kid so it stuck.

With my own kids it was similar - "we don't believe in supernatural beings but other people do and that is ok until they start trying to inflict their beliefs on you." Later I allowed them to hear full blown rants about the constitutionality of various practices (prayers at school etc) I had alway hoped one of them would be a political troublemaker at school because I was kind of itching for a fight with some of the morans there, but they were more mature than me and seemed to pretty much get along with all of their peers/various authority figures. That's about it.

to add a couple things: we always do christmas and easter - they are simply cultural traditions that we enjoy. (food mostly, heh) also, when I was a kid - and of course in my house now - were BOOKS, lots of books about the natural world, science, evolution, other cultures, etc.

My oldest had catholic and mormon friends and occasionally attended activities with them. One of my favorite little stories was him attending some catholic training class with his friend, about age 7 or 8 and at the end of the hour the priest asked the kids "now who knows the answer - who always loves you?" the answer being Jesus of course, but my little freak answered "our parents":rofl:

[NeedleCast]

8. I don't have children but am a non-believer from a religious family

Most of my moms side of the family are fundamentalist "bible believin'" baptists. They take the bible literally (well, some of it anyway, the stuff about gays and abortion (which isn't really in there but they think it is) and sinners they take literally. The stuff about helping the poor they mostly ignore). They know I'm a non-believer and for awhile it was an issue on religious holidays (X-mas, Easter, etc.) and Sunday's when I was home on vacation or whatever (I live 1500 miles away for a reason...)

Finally I just sat down with my folks and told them look, if you want me to keep coming down to visit from time to time, you've got to respect the fact that I don't do church. My mom tested this once on Christamas saying that if I wasn't going to go to church services over the Christmas holiday (and with her, that means going to the church for something damn near every day) that I wasn't to come down. So I didn't. Called her bluff and the next year things were back to normal, without me having to argue with my mom and aunts every thirty minutes. My parents and I have a good relationship, and after I put my foot down, as it were, that was pretty much the end of it.

Now I have a nephew and am an uncle for the first time. My sister is religious but much less fundamental than the rest of the family. We just had a christening for my newphew a few weeks ago and I went to it but was so uncomfortable in church that I told my sis that I really didn't want to take part in any more religous events. I want to be a part of my nephew's life and will be there for as many of his big moments as I can...outside the church. My sister was cool with that.

So I guess for me, telling people how I felt about it and setting up where my boundries were worked pretty well.

[RebelOne]

10. My children are adults now, but my daughter is an atheist, as I am.

Unfortunately, she is married to a devout Catholic. My son and his wife are religious and think my atheism is just awful.

[John Q. Citizen]

12. I'm an agnostic with kids. I point out that there are really about 5 billion religions, since

everyone has there own individual set of beliefs about the world, where we may have come from, where we may be going, etc.

I also tell them that they need to figure out for themselves what they believe and to beware of When they want to attend a church with a friend or relative, I'm OK with that. I come from a fairly liberal family. My

From my experience there are near as many different kinds of atheists and agnostics as there are, say, Buddhists, or Christians. I teach my children to be tolerant of others beliefs and to understand that sometimes there are people who are not tolerant of others beliefs and to be aware because people can sometimes be extreme in their beliefs.

What I always tell my kids is a quote from a Tom Robbins book. "There are two kinds of people in this world; One kind thinks there are two kinds of people in this world - The rest know better."

[scheming daemons]

14. I have two children... and my wife is a Methodist

And I simply don't talk about it much except to tell my daughters (ages 14 and 9) to discover the world themselves.

They are both in Pennsylvania's gifted program (SCOPE) and think for themselves very well, are straight-A students, and are intellectually curious.

My wife isn't in-your-face about her religion, and it seems to be - to her - a place to find communion (not in the "body of christ" sense) with other families.

My oldest plays piano in the church, because she likes to play... not because of some deep religious reasoning.

When I *DO* go to church with them, I spend the hour reading DU on my phone and enjoying the music.

I've found that people will reach their own conclusions about existence without brow-beating - just answer questions truthfully and let the chips fall.

We celebrate Easter as a "welcome to Spring!" holiday. We celebrate the spirit of giving during Christmas and have a tree. Celebrating it as "Jesus' birthday" is silly, because he wasn't born on December 25th (almost EVERY historian says he was born in the spring).... and I would consider celebrating his birthday to be on the same level as celebrating George Washington's, or Martin Luther King's.

I believe Jesus was a man who lived and had some good ideas about how people could get along better and have a more civil society. But he was just a man whose "followers" deified and twisted his teachings around.

To me... Jesus and Confucious are peers... equivalents. Wise men who taught how to be good humans.

But not divine. In fact, the concept of divinity is silly.... and many men have used the concept to promote themselves to positions of power by preying on the ignorant masses who believe there's an invisible omnipotent being controlling everything.


I believe those that have high intelligence and high education, will gradually migrate their world-view toward that of an atheist.

They may not admit it out loud, or even to themselves in some cases.... they'll "pretend" for others that they believe, just as parents "pretend" there is a Santa Claus when talking to children.

But in their own minds.. they know. There's nobody listening when you pray, except yourself.

[BurtWorm]

16. I'm fortunate to come from an environment in which my family, in-laws, friends

are nonbelievers/nonreligious. When talking to my daughter about religion, we always toss in a token nod toward the possibility that she may find she believes in something different from us and has the right and responsibility to make up her own mind. But I do find it difficult to hide the disgust I feel for sanctimony and other religious behaviors. So I don't.

[Warpy]

17. I know my nonbeliever friends had a daughter who, at the age of eight,

decided that all the youth activities at church sounded pretty neato and could they start going, please? My friends found a wildly liberal Episcopalian congregation and are still going, 8 years after the daughter left home. Oh, I don't think they buy a word of it, all these years later. I think they go there for the same thing their daughter wanted: community.

I guess the best thing to do is let the kid take the lead. I'm convinced belief or lack of it is hard wired. Some kids of stone atheists are going to grow up to be believers and some kids of fundy nutcases will rebel all the way and become fire breathing atheist wack jobs. Some guidance in how to deal with people who don't agree is all that's needed. Your job is to produce human beings who can function in the world, not replicate copies of yourself.

Above all, teach atheist kids about the "I'm just not really religious" dodge that allows everybody to get along with few ruffled feathers, the closet we're all in if we want to do things like keep families, friends and jobs. Just let the kids choose their own course when it's time, back them up in it, and show them how not to be assholes about it.

[peace13]

22. I come from a long line of serious, god loving (fearing) Lutherans.

I was eight months pregnant when my mother asked me when the baby would be baptized. I told her that I was going to let that be a decision that my child would make. My grandmother who was a very quiet lady spoke from the corner of the room, "The fires of Hell are HOT!' I said, "Yes, maybe so, but any God who would punish a child for his mother's stupidity is not a very loving god." There was no other conversation about this, ever.

With my son, we focused on learning the good ways to treat others and the earth without attributing these rules to one form of religion or another. Interestingly enough he has grown to be inquisitive about religion. In college he chose Christianity as his mandatory class in religion. The first week of class they had to write a paper and read it to the class. When we asked him how that went his reply was, "Fine, but I was the only one who didn't have the bible shoved up my ass!"

I have always thought that Christianity would be the divisive end all in this country and it looks like we are rapidly headed in that direction. If I were asked to have a discussion with your niece I don't know where I would start. I think the topic would be rules for living. We could see how many of the same ideas we all share with Christians and people of other faiths and minimize the differences.

It would be so much easier to be able to say that god is in heaven and will always keep you safe. I always wished that I had the magic words but they never came. Enjoy these moments with your niece. She will teach you a a thing or two along the way. Peace and love, Kim

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. I'm an agnostic.

Both my older sons go to church.

Whatever legally brings them fulfillment is okay with me.

[galileoreloaded]

24. Well, there are two ways to approach this, as we have in my home.

You can be a rabid athiest, and run around trying to persuade people that your opinion is the right one, and ultimately take on the personality of a rabid door to door fundie nut, OR teach your kids, and live by, the "whatever" rule.

People are individuals and are free to believe what they want. Whatever.
OK, I am going to hell (so says my neighbor). Whatever.
Stand up, say the pledge, "In god we trust". Whatever.

Just shrug your shoulders and say, "whatever". Works great. The interesting part is that my kids look at ANYONE with fervent beliefs as being more than a little off center, so the comments I get tend to be bore along the lines of "Why are people so weird about religion?" And they consider, as do I and the wife, hardcore atheists to be just as off center as a whacked out Arkansas Baptist, trying to save us all.

YMMV.

[BurtWorm]

37. God hates fags, Whatever?

Parents owe their children education in discernment.

[rd_kent]

42. I would like to think I have more than my "opinion" on my side

My lack of belief in superstitious gods and myths are based on facts, evidence, reality and rational thought. It's more than my "opinion." Until someone provides proof of their god and their associated beliefs in that god, THAT is the ONLY opinion in this argument.

[Clio the Leo]

25. Well, I can give you some advice from the flip side of the coin....

.... I am a Christian as is all of my family, but I have a branch of the family that does not partake in traditional Christmas or Easter festivities. My father (who is a Church of Christ minister) has openly denounced from the pulpit the the practices most of us associate with Christmas. (The rational being there is no authorization for Christmas in the Bible .... we in the Church of Christ are sticklers for that kinda thing.)

While I do not celebrate Christmas as Christ birth .... and I dont CELEBRATE Christ birth any time for that matter .... I'm as big of an egg nog freak and a Nat King Cole fan as they come. And my "celebration" of Easter is limited to buying a dress and loads of chocolate when it goes on clearance on Monday. We in the Church of Christ commemorate Christ's death every Sunday as the Bible instructs.

I say all that to say that us Jesus "Crispies" are quit the diverse bunch. ;)

Anyway .... what we have found, in our varying beliefs, is that it is best to respect one another's views on Christmas and Easter, giving one another space to practice or not practice as we choose.

I do not believe that my uncle is harming his grandchildren by NOT giving them Christmas presents any more than he thinks that some unknowing acquaintance is harming them by giving them a gift or inviting them to a party.

The rationale comes from scripture in Romans 14 which says, "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;"

Now, even if you question whether or not that scripture is divinely inspired, I'm sure you could agree that it's, at the very least, sage advice. ;)

When I was in school I sang the dreidel song and "O hanukkah O hanukkah, Come light the menorah..." and my father didn't mind a bit. My faith in Christ didn't waver, and I was learning about and therefore becoming better able to respect those of the Jewish faith. When I was little and would go with him to visit the sick in our city's Catholic hospital, he would explain to me, in a very respectful manner, when I asked "why do they have statues of Jesus everywhere?" (The Church of Christ does not practice material veneration of the Savior.) He'd explain to me why they were there and why we didn't have them.

Too often prejudice is born of ignorance. An ignorance that forms when we dont take the time to understand one another and why we do the things we do. Personally, IF I had children, I'd be sure to let them learn about as many faith practices as I could ..... including those who choose not to practice any. I think in order to know WHY you do something, you have to know what the alternatives are.

I know of one man who, when he was a little boy, while his mother was not a member of any one faith, she made a point of taking him to and teaching him about all the major religions of the world. Their home library contained all of the major faith texts. I would also suspect that she taught him that not everyone is religious and their reasons for being so are just as valid as those that are. It's up to each person to decide.

That little boy grew up to become the 44th President of the United States of America.

Raise your children the way you want to, and most importantly, be a good EXAMPLE to them. But let them learn about as many different people and practices as they can. Do that, and they will be able to form their own beliefs when they become adults and, most importantly, they will respect their fellow woman or man.

And you will have done your part to make the world a better place.

[TokenQueer]

43. Thanks...

...for your heartfelt response. No convert, here... but I do appreciate the tone and overall message of your terrific post. See post script down-thread for "Jesus Crispies" Clarification. Peace.

[PVnRT]

26. Ummmm....there's a scientology ad on this thread...

Seriously, :wtf:

[TokenQueer]

29. ?

Strange. I am not seeing that on my end....

:wtf: indeed.

[beac]

32. TQ, if you have donated to DU (as I see you have by your star), you don't see ads on the site.

See my reply below yours as to why that ad probably ahowed up.

[beac]

31. I know DU doesn't control the content of the ads Google sends. Key words, etc trigger the ads.

It does make me laugh a little to think that they just spent money to try and sell their cult to a bunch of atheists.

[beam me up scottie]

33. $10.00 donation to DU: Ad Free Surfing

Scientology Paying For Atheists' Discussion On DU: Priceless

:rofl:

[DeSwiss]

38. Win!

[Matariki]

27. When talking to you neice, you might want to express more respect for everyone

both Atheists and 'Jesus Crispies' alike.

[WolverineDG]

34. I was going to say the same thing

You shouldn't expect respect for your views when you mock those of others.

dg

[rd_kent]

39. Pffft!

When Jesus Crispies respect me, I will respect them

[mysuzuki2]

40. I have been an atiest for most of my life

but I don't see any need to be evangelical about it.

[bettyfreakincrocker]

48. uhhh...what?

there's a huge need to get the point across that religion is not reality. and if you have been an athiest for most of your life, it seems like you would be the first person to pipe up and try and help educate everyone else. am i getting the tone of ur message wrong; or am i right in thinking ur a hater? you sit back and criticize, and offer no real help...standing silently by your "beliefs" or "disbeliefs".
There is a need to be evangelical about it; it's to educate. I think we can all benefit from discussion.

[bettyfreakincrocker]

50. spelling error

i spelled atheist wrong...my bad, i fat fingered it.

[TokenQueer]

44. Post script

Thanks to everyone for the responses. This issue, in many ways, is uncharted territory and I had hoped an open thread on this topic might be beneficial.

For the record, "Jesus Crispies" is a song title by the little known 80s band Psychefunkapus. Long ago my sister started referring to our zealot relatives as the "Jesus Crispies" (sounds like a box of cereal...lots of flakes and nuts). I did not intend to offend. However, having been abused as a child by these wing-nuts in the name of God, this terminology was the least offensive I could muster. In fact, my sister's atheism is a direct result of witnessing this abuse.

A special shout out to Christa and www.atheisttoolbox.com ! Thanks.

Since this thread was hijacked by Scientology and the Google ad-bot, I will close out with big "thank yous" to all who took the time to post responses. Peace.

[struggle4progress]

46. I never ever met a kid who thought G-d lived on the moon. Certainly none of my childhood friends

ever expressed such a belief. When I was in second grade, my best friend was a devote Catholic, and on snowy day he said something like "The angels are having a pillow fight" -- but he then smiled in a such way that I knew he was joking

[bettyfreakincrocker]

49. you need to...

meet this kids parents and u'll understand why. they discuss little to none with their child. only going through the motions of the day. it's sad really, 'cuz she's had to come up with her own ideas of God. my daughter may not believe in God but she still believes in dragons and magic...when ur 7 anything is possible! ;)

[bettyfreakincrocker]

47. i'm in...

Hello brother dear.
Sister here.
I look forward to posting on this forum.
There seems to be some smarties...a few dunb dumbs, but what are you gunna do?;)
Hope everyone has a wonderful, relaxing weekend.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

52. Richard Dawkins handled the same situation about ten years ago.

He wrote a letter to his ten-year-old daughter about the subject of belief, and it was included in his collection of essays, A Devil's Chaplain. (An excellent read, by the way.) He doesn't just tell her what to believe, he tells good and bad reasons for believing something. It's a good place to start:
http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/dawkins2.html

[PassingFair]

53. My atheist daughter told people she was Jewish, just so they'd quit pestering her....

and to make herself more interesting...

Well the "story" trickled down to her
younger sister, still in Jr. High, and
then SHE had to pretend to be "Jewish,
on my mother's side"...

She tried out for a solo in the Christmas
Concert in school, but didn't make the cut.
I thought I'd need to console her over the
phone that afternoon, but she told me not
to worry, because "Guess who gets to light
the Hanukkah candles"!

The oldest wanted to convert, until I
told her she would be too old for a
Bat Mitzvah by the time that happened.

They are the only "Jewish" kids in our
district.

:rofl: :rofl:

[Meshuga]

54. The Jewish card is statisfying to use

I think I have told you this before but you have some clever girls there. :-)

The Jewish card usually disarms those pestering you except if the people doing the pestering are Jews for Jesus/messianic.

[PassingFair]

55. My girls are in uncharted territory...

I went to church when I was little
and "identified" as an Episcopalian
until I was 12, when realized that
I was a non-believer.

It was still easier to tell people
that I was Episcopalian than it was
to get into theological discussions
with people who equate atheists with
devils.

My girls had both taken some heat
in grade school for saying they were
atheists, ("This is OUR club for Christians
only. You can't join")...so I don't blame
them for getting creative.

Maybe THEIR children can be themselves
without facing ridicule and discrimination.

I shudder to think how children in the south
or other more religious areas have to keep
quiet about their world views.

:hi:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

56. The Jews for Jesus really drive me nuts.

There's a website that refutes their stuff & says they are a front group for the Southern Baptists. I think they are trying to appropriate the heritage of the Jews and that is wrong.
I think they use Hebrew words to suck people in.

I have been to two Jewish temples (one the largest Reform temple in the world, in NYC, and one a large Conservative temple in Houston) where the only people who spoke to me were Jews for Jesus!! :grr:

The Jews need to know that there are infiltrators talking to the visitors and being friendly, which is what the shul members should be doing.

Website:
www.jewsforjudaism.org

[Meshuga]

59. I think they are creepy n/t

[heidler1]

57. IMO the typical Christian does no harm with their wanting fellowship with other Christians.

However, because they typically hold many incorrect beliefs that are required of them in order to keep their Bible from logically unraveling. They even insist on selling way too many nonsensical views. With their consistent push of trying to freeze the level of knowledge back in time. Then this causes them to support nutty political ideas and people like Bush take advantage and cater to them to gain power.

The best way to handle this is through kindness while remembering that they more than likely need your approval more than you need their's or you wouldn't be an Atheist to begin with.

[drkkr76]

58. atheism and bringing up children

interesting post,i think its really interesting the way u hv observed ur niece and her response to it, quite natural, i want to add a different dimension to it, i think most of atheists agree that they are not part of any religion, certainly, to agree tht there is no God is a key defining decision, it can be quite tough choice to make if u r taking tht decision, its easier to follow another close ones decisions, mostly parents, but i think its important to arrive at tht decision individually, apart from the discussion if God is there or not, one thing is tht religion is designed to incorporate certain things into an individual, in testing times,when u r low or when u r suffering, it can be a leading light to turn to spirituality, philosophy or religion, and not to science,during this time, wht i hv noticed is tht religion or spirituality or philosophy in any form, can make u see sense or accept situation and decide ur reactions, in essence help u adapt better, the absence of this and the presence of the knowledge tht there is no God ever can take tht comfort zone away, then u become reliant on people, now here comes the catch, depending on who u r and where u r and how people around u are, there is a whole array of possibilities and routes u could take, now, given a choice i want my child to have a legacy of comfort, a safety net, a support network, even if i am destined to be absent during his/her testing times, and for me thts religion, philosophy or spirituality, there is more in the package, and i can see u enjoying it too, like having a christmas meeting with ur family is in itself a privilege, many doesnt have tht even and so loose out on the 'package' tht comes with it..
get wht i mean?
so the question is
does atheism breed arrogance and adamant behaviour?
do u actually have to address the question and choose God/no God? or not?