Let Bible study be allowed at recess, suit says

[The Straight Story]

Let Bible study be allowed at recess, suit says

Associated Press

KNOXVILLE — A 10-year-old boy and his parents have filed a lawsuit after complaining his school principal would not let him hold a Bible study during recess.

After the complaint became news, the Knox County Board of Education said last month that reading the Bible is acceptable during free time, but recess is not considered free time. Luke Whitson and his parents, Samuel and Tina Whitson, believe it is, according to the lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050604/NEWS03/506040328/1018/NEWS

[loveable liberal]

1. for crying out loud. Isnt 52 days a year enough for these people?

Each Sunday is reserved for God, not to mention after school, after work and whenever else they please. Parents who use their children as tools make me sick.

[BattyDem]

2. Kids are in school for about 6 hours a day ...

why can't they use the other 18 hours for Bible study? If you want your kid to study the Bible in school, then send him to a religious school and leave the rest of us alone!

[The Straight Story]

8. How is it any different then reading any other book at recess?

We used to 'study' comic books when I was a kid at recess. We would sit around discussing the legion of super heros, et al and pouring over latest editions of comics and how they intertwined (like how could green lantern be over here doing this when he was there doing that).

We did other things too sometimes, played soccer, kickball, et al. But sometimes we just wanted to sit around and discuss things with other kids relating to what we liked. I don't see the threat with this, or why there is so much fear over some kids hanging out talking about what they like or believe.

Imagine taking some print outs of threads from DU and your kids discussing what a fuck up bush is and the teacher telling them it is forbidden. The kids have free time to do some things, not school led, and if they choose to read the bible together or comics or whatever how does this harm our society?

[BattyDem]

12. He doesn't want to read a book ...

he wants to "hold a bible study" - there's a big difference. If he wants to read the Bible, fine. If other kids happen to wander over and talk to him about it, fine. But the words "hold a Bible study" bother me. It sounds like the child wants to organize some sort of discussion group about religion during recess. What if other parents don't want their children to participate in a Bible study?

I wonder ... would this boy's parents defend the right of students to have a "Gay-Straight Alliance" discussion group during recess? Would they defend the right of students to have discussions about sex, birth control, homosexuality, atheism, paganism, Islam, etc.?

I doubt it. :eyes:


I know ... I'm over-reacting. But I'll tell you ... I am really sick of these whiny fundies who constantly bitch about not being allowed to practice their religion, because what they're really bitching about is not being allowed to impose their religion. :mad:


On edit:
You know, I just realized something ... these damn fundies are making me hate religion ... all religion, not just Christianity. They have perverted it so badly that it makes me sick. It's all about hate and anger and bigotry and control.

I was raised Catholic, but I got out of that years ago. However, I never had a problem with religion. In fact, I always enjoyed hearing about other people's religious practices and beliefs - I found it very interesting and it gave me an understanding of different cultures. But now ... it makes me crazy to think about it. Damn fundies! :-( :grr:

[The Straight Story]

13. In that same vein:

I wonder ... would this boy's parents defend the right of students to have a "Gay-Straight Alliance" discussion group during recess? Would they defend the right of students to have discussions about sex, birth control, homosexuality, atheism, paganism, Islam, etc.?

Would you or anyone else defend such?

[BattyDem]

15. Yes and no

I think student discussion groups are a good thing because the kids are exposed to different ideas and points of view - but I think there should be an adult moderator. Let the kids discuss what they want, but have someone there to guide the them if things get a bit heated or chaotic; someone who can make sure that one or two manipulative kids aren't controlling the dialog.

We did this a few times when I was in 7th/8th grade. It was great! We talked about lots of different things and every kid got to have his say ... but we also had a teacher there who would jump in when things got a little crazy. We learned a lot about each other and about ourselves. :-)

[The Straight Story]

16. that reminds me of a time my teacher got mad at me

Was in 4th grade I think, might have been 1975. We were in a small reading group with teacher and she wa talking about wars, asia, and so forth. She asked who knew what guerilla warfare was. I piped up "Big gorillas with guns shooting people" because it sort of made sense. She got mad and made me go sit by myself. I had never heard the term before and thought maybe she was pulling our legs when she said "gorilla warfare".

[Donald Ian Rankin]

18. I would.

I think if students want to discuss the bible, or the Koran, or politics, or anything else in their free time rather than playing tag or what have you they should be actively encouraged.

I'm from the UK, and recess isn't a term I'm familiar with, but unless it's meant to be dedicated to a specific usage I think discussing the bible is a perfectly good one for it. If the school's claim that it's not free time is valid then I'd support them, but it sounds like it is.

If he wanted to *make* other children study the bible, I'd be opposed to it, but I think that forbidding children from discussing the bible in their free time is as much an imposition of religion as requiring them to do so would be.

[Zebedeo]

26. Exactly correct

Great post.

[Der Blaue Engel]

21. Hell, yes

What part of that do you find objectionable? Is it or is it not free time?

[arwalden]

17. Precisely! Well said!

[Tux]

3. Technically

They can have Bible study during recess since it's student led and not during class.

Of course, why can't they do that at home or church is beyond me. Oh, they wish to convert people. Nice. So weak in faith they have to be like that guy at B&N here in town that tries to convert godless, literate liberals while they browse books and drink Starbucks. Little notes about my soul in hell are real ice bookmarks. Why are they in computer books, I'll never know.

Personally, I'm sick of this crap. My impulsive anger problem is harder to control with Christians running around yelling persecution while Christians in Sudan are being killed 24/7. Why can't they leave the rest of society alone? What is their problem and why can't the UN give them their own damn nation so we can maintain peace and democracy?

[CatholicEdHead]

4. Yes they can and should

if it is all student led. I doubt he will get very many. They always seem to whine way too much.

[starroute]

6. Are you sure they can?

When I was a kid, recess was considered to be necessary physical activity to break up the school day. It might be free play -- but that only meant you were free to play in any way you chose. I'm pretty sure that if I had tried to sit out and read a book I would have quickly had a teacher telling me I had to put it away and join a game with the other children.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

28. I don't allow my students

to read anything at recess. They need to move and play. That's recess. They can read in class when they finish their work.

[The Straight Story]

9. It may not be about conversion at all

When I was in 7th grade I always had my bible with me, and would read it on the school bus and often when we got time outside or study hall (back in my day we had k-6 then 7-12 and there was no middle school, so we got a mix of outside time and study hall to prepare us for higher grades).

So if I was outside reading it, and a few other kids were as well, and we got together to discuss and debate things, how is that bad?

In 8th grade I read chronicles of Amber, as did two of my friends. I was being bused at the time and ended up (for 1 year) at some far away school. In our free time at school we got together to talk about it in depth (and a few other books we were wanting to get from sci-fi book club). We did not want to get other people to be nerds like us, we just had something in common that we wanted to share and talk about and could not in class. It was cool (and the Empire was coming out too and one of the dorks had the book and was filling us in - Han was with Leia? What about poor luke? Vader was his dad? We sat around and had some serious study time on that book I assure you. Ahhhh the days of youth).

I remember too wearing a Jesus shirt and sometimes some buttons. My parents were not fundies but to me it meant something. Kids were tshirts with what they liked (black sabbath is what my buddy Andy wore a lot) so I thought, "hey, I like Jesus and he is cool". I was surprised one day when my rock and roll bus driver commented on one of my t-shirts. "Not many kids wear those, Jesus is cool man" (and that guy had a hard job on the bus - he eventually had to play a different radio station based on the day of the week because some kids hated rock and some hated rap and lite music et al. He compromised and it worked out well. I never asked him to play the music I liked though, but he would have. He was one cool guy and I often wondered what happened to him.

At any rate, I was a 'jesus freak' as some might call me here. But it was one of many things I liked and was into - and like any other kid I shared that in my own way.

[Igel]

10. Whether or not it's free time seems to be the issue.

Agreeing with the other poster who answered you, back in the dark ages when I was in elementary school, recess was forced play. Usually organized (involving barbarisms such as competitive races and even--shudder--dodge ball), it was sometimes unorganized "free play".

Unless a kid was forced to clean erasers.

Although I seem to recall recesses in which we headed into the woods to study wildlife from time to time, or dealt with a student garden. But that was in 6th grade.

[The Straight Story]

11. That would be weird :)

I grew up where you just went outside and people congregated in the groups they hung out with and did whatever they wanted. Sometimes we played kickball but I remember one time in 3rd grade sitting way out in the field with my best friend just talking. His parents were getting a divorce and he was going to be moving to a new place and new school.

Even inside recess was pretty unstructured. We hung in the class or gym and broke up into our groups and did whatever (usually we drew comics which today would probably get us labeled as terrorists and suspended for ever and a day).

We also played tank wars, which I still do from time to time. You draw a tank on the paper, as does the other person, and hold the tip of your pencil on it and in one motion push down and back on the eraser. Where the line ends you pick up next time with the shot (at the opposing tank of course) or you can move your tank there. And of course paper football was always a favorite passtime as well (I got pretty good at that).

[Igel]

14. Wow. Baltimore County elementary schools in the

'60s sound like prisons compared to yours.

Inside recess was gym: stupid games, simple calisthenics from time to time.

Outside recess after 2nd grade, maybe 3rd, was organized. Unless the teacher didn't feel like it, in which case it was uncontrolled mayhem.

[Zebedeo]

27. I played that tank warfare game, too

That was fun! Also paper football. I got pretty good at that.

[starroute]

5. Who's paying for the lawsuit?

There have been a bunch of these lately -- the girl who wanted to sing a particularly belligerent hymn at a school talent show, the mother who claimed the Bible was her son's favorite book so she should get to read one of the more bloodthirsty psalms during parent participation day . . .

At least one of those was funded by the Rutherford Institute. I wouldn't be surprised of all of these cases have the resources of the religious right behind them.

[TheFarseer]

7. What kid wants to read the bible during recess???

Maybe some fundie brainwashed kid but not any kids I knew. Go play kickball or football or soccer. They always talk about liberals causing problems with garbage lawsuits. My God, what do they call this then!? This kid can be a fundie bung-hole the rest of his life, let him play some soccer for now.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

23. I never wanted to read the Bible at recess---

but I mostly kept to myself. Organized games like soccer, kickball, etc. bored me half to death. Too many kids whining and complaining about this and that and who scored and was that a penalty.... :eyes:

I just kept to the swings and played time travelling games with one or two friends--I'm sure everyone else thought we were whacko, since we were so anti-social. :D

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. Ok -- IF

they allow Pagans to talk about their ceremonies, let Jews study the Torah, and Muslims explain how they pray and the meaning of the first sura of the Qur'an. Actually, if they did that, everyone might learn something....

[Maat]

20. HeeHee. So true.

And, DUers, I research the religious right, because my interest in law is "separation of church and state" issues, and I happen to have researched the lawyers (counsel) in this case.

In my humble opinion, this was a setup for a "test case."

So, shennanigans are going on here, no doubt.

[beam me up scottie]

22. !

[WritingIsMyReligion]

24. LOL BMUS

:hi:

[Evoman]

25. DUMB DUMB DUMB

This is dumb. Most kids should be using recess to get physical activity. After being cooped in the classrooms learning, kids need some release. Get some of that crazy energy out so that they can concentrate in class.

Too many kids these days (lol..and I'm using this phrase at the tender age of 26) are fat and lazy. Hell, it wouldn't be a bad idea to cancel recess and use that time for some structured physical excercies (and I'm not necessarily talking about competitive games like B-ball, etc...I have some beef with the school systems and how they're not getting the less active kids to join in because nobody passes them the ball and they're made fun of). Reading bibles is the last thing a kid needs. Hey kids, why play games when you can read about incest or morality. Seriously, the people suing are stupid. Without some context, a young kid isn't going to learn anything useful from the bible anyways...hell, most adults aren't intellectually able to understand the bible.

Lets the kids do some kid-like activities for gods sake (hehe).