Offensive statements concerning believers.

[ZombieHorde]

"Believers worship a being of supreme spirituality which they refer to as God." versus "Believers worship an imaginary friend which they refer to as God." Which of these two statements is the most offensive?

For the purpose of this poll, a believer is one who believes in God. For example, Christians, Jews, and Muslims are considered believers. They may not be the only believers, but they are the most common type of believer this poll is referring to.

[Ohio Joe]

1. I think they are both offensive

The first I would find offensive to say and the second would probably be offensive for a believer to hear.

[Chemisse]

2. I don't believe in a god but I think

Calling God someone's imaginary friend is pretty disrespectful. If we want religious people to be respectful of our beliefs, or lack thereof, we should be respectful of theirs.

I know it's hard sometimes when you have to deal with those Christians who are self-righteous and hostile. But why become just like them?

[ZombieHorde]

8. How would you feel if someone referred to your computer as your

"imaginary toy"?

[sam sarrha]

16. it's real i can touch it. i Created my Computer. i built it . it's a reality of my imagination

[ZombieHorde]

18. Would you be offended if someone said your computer was not real?

[sam sarrha]

no i'd just shink thwy were stupid

[sam sarrha]

26. no i'd just shink thwy were stupid

[ZombieHorde]

37. Of course. Your belief in computers is so strong that denial of computers

in not insulting or threatening in any way. You are completely comfortable with your belief in the existence of computers.

[sam sarrha]

39. it is all how your brain is set up..i meditate, i am also a childhood surviver if the Free Holiness

Pentecostal Cult. besides that when i found out santa claus was a cruel joke.. i also deducted that the Baby Jesus crap associated with Xmas was a con job also...

i doubt at 60 i will ever be inclined to believe in a religion. it is apparent that most religions are the product of Schizophrenia..voices.. gimmi a break.. except for the other one which is the product of mental illness, its hallucinations and a Psychotic Narcissist war lord slaver using a sock puppet routine to control and terrorize his followers. just the Jim Jones of his time.. same symptoms, same behavior. a Text Book Case.

i don't really care, except when i see people being conned.. then i share.

[JerseygirlCT]

13. I think you've got it on the nose, personally.

Just right.

[MADem]

3. People who don't "believe" do not regard either statement as offensive.

People who do "believe" do.

You're never going to make people who don't believe, believe. It's as stupid as insisting that they "respect" the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus.

And people who do believe will either do the "turn the other cheek/know not what they do" schtick, or they'll get pissed off at people for not "respecting" something that they hold near and dear.

You can't make people like beets or fried kidneys if they don't like 'em. You can't "make" people "believe" or think your beliefs are important if they don't.

Why worry about what others think? Blaze your own trail, and do whatever you want. Believe, or not. It makes no doggone difference to me.

[ZombieHorde]

6. I am trying to figure out which statements about religion are offensive to many on DU.

I see complaints about R/T having many offensive comments. I rarely get direct answers to questions about these comments, so I decided to create some polls regarding this issue.

[struggle4progress]

10. Why? Are you trying to figure out just exactly how offensive you can be?

[ZombieHorde]

15. I am curious, and if a statement seems to offend many here, then I may try to avoid it.

If the imaginary friend option receives many votes, I may not use that phrase on the R/T board anymore.

[MADem]

11. People who get offended because others don't "believe" the way they do, and

do not "respect their beliefs" will always be with us. And so will people who just don't believe and don't care.

It's one of those things that people get mad about, but no minds are changed. The believers, often as not, keep believing, and the non-believers generally stay in their corners, too.

It's one of those silly fights that never gets resolved. Great for a bit of back-n-forth poutrage, though.

[JerseygirlCT]

14. There's a difference between not sharing a belief, and insulting

those who hold that belief.

[sam sarrha]

17. actually i am REALLY ONLY OFFENDED BY YOU, your Gene Comment is over the top FUNDI.

[ZombieHorde]

21. The gene comment is not mine. nt

[TZ]

42. Umm no. I'm an atheist yet I think referring to ones relgious beliefs

as "imaginary" is offensive. My momma taught me, if I have nothing nice to say to be silent. Just because I have opinions about a topic doesn't give me the right to behave abominably toward someone else who thinks differently.
Of course, if someone attempts to push their beliefs on me, I'm not gonna hold back. Otherwise, its live and let live.

[stray cat]

4. Atheists are lacking something genetically so they can not sense the world around them

They were clearly born with a defect or perhaps are soul-less creatures different from everyone else. Would that be offensive?

[ZombieHorde]

7. I may, if you would not be offended, use your examples (with credit) in another poll.

I have already made a two polls today, so I may show some restraint and wait a day.

"Atheists are lacking something genetically so they can not sense the world around them." versus "There is no God." may work.

[sam sarrha]

9. here is a list of what a cult is.. the OP is beyond ignorant, check out the list >> Link>>

actually saying that makes anything else they say invalid, it is telling of Bigotry

actually it just has to do with certain physical areas of the brain active or inactive.

all the regions can be developed or shut down by specific exercises.. that is a fact.. so that is how cults, particularly Psychotic narcissistic personality cults make people do horrific things like kill people an believe it was a divine action, jim jones is a classic example..

a list of cult characteristics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_checklist

In her book "Cults - the battle for God", Shirley Harrison has a list of the characteristics of a potential destructive cult:

A powerful leader who claims divinity or a special mission entrusted to him/her from above;

Revealed scriptures or doctrine;

Deceptive recruitment;

Totalitarianism and alienation of members from their families and/or friends;

The use of indoctrination, by sophisticated mind-control techniques, based on the concept that once you can make a person behave the

way you want, then you can make him/her believe what you want;

Slave labour - that is, the use of members on fundraising or missionary activities for little or no pay to line the leader's pockets;

Misuse of funds and the accumulation of wealth for personal or political purposes at the expense of members; and

Exclusivity - "we are right and everyone else is wrong".

[rd_kent]

31. The difference between a cult and a church

a church has a larger congregation.

[sam sarrha]

41. Islam is a Psychotic Narcissist Cult, what jim jones/manson/hitler/etc 1 billion+ strong check out

http://felibri.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=180:483169427151320531439df3919e2813&zenid=910d3d013ba4b0dfc3bc6689280e800b

Understanding Muhammad begins with a brief history of his life. Muhammad had a loveless childhood. He then passed to the care of relatives who took pity on him and spoiled him. As the result he developed narcissistic personality disorder, a trait that made him a megalomaniac bereft of conscience. Muhammad believed in his own cause. Even when he lied, he felt entitled and justified to do so.Thanks to another mental illness, namely temporal lobe epilepsy, the prophet of Islam had vivid hallucinations he interpreted as mystical and divine intimations. He also suffered from obsessive compulsive disorder, causing his fixations on numbers, rituals and stringent rules. In the addition, he suffered from acromegaly, a disease caused by excessive production of a growth hormone resulting in large bones and odd facial features. The combination of his psychological disorders and his unusual physiognomy made him a phenomenon that set him apart from ordinary people. His uneducated followers interpreted his differences as signs of his prophethood. Like devotees of all cults, they rose to champion his cause with dedication. By defying death and butchering others they made Islam the world's second largest religion, now the biggest threat to world peace. The author argues that Islam is incompatible with democracy and human rights, and the only way to avert the clash between barbarity and civilization, and a world disaster, is to expose its fallacy and demystify it. "Muslims must be weaned from Islam for humanity to live in peace," says Ali Sina. Product Details

http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/07/01/who-is-allah-videos/

great info..

http://www.amazon.com/Politically-Incorrect-Guide-Islam-Crusades/dp/0895260131/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247710176&sr=1-1

this is $4.50. highly recomended

time for the truth..

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. I agree with Chemisse

The second phrase is disrespectful to believers. I know that there are times that believers are disrespectful of atheists and agnostics (heck, many believers are also disrespectful of other believers--see the thread about the church with the anti-Islamic sign). But let's just talk about DUers. If people wish to have a dialog and try to understand another person's point of view, I think it is vital that they treat each other with respect.

[ZombieHorde]

20. If someone refered to a computer as an 'imaginary toy', would that be offensive? nt

[Chemisse]

27. I don't think that analogy really works.

[ZombieHorde]

34. I was attempting to compare the strengths of different beliefs.

One's belief in computers is so strong that any denial seems silly, on the other hand, one's belief in gods may be significantly weaker than one's belief in computers, so calling God an imaginary friend stings more than calling a computer an imaginary toy.

I don't think most people in our present day and place believe in God the way they believe in computers.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

29. A computer is a tool

in a three dimensional world, one that I don't believe anyone thinks is made up. However, we are discussion non corporal things here. Big difference.

[ZombieHorde]

33. My point was belief. A person would not be offended because they know that their computer is real.

Saying computers are imaginary toys is silly.

I think people in our present day and place believe in computers significantly more than they believe in gods.

I think this is why calling God an imaginary friend is hurtful, some part of the believer agrees with the statement.

[JerseygirlCT]

12. Statement one reads to me

factual, while statement two is subjective and offensive.

It's the editorial statement, meant to be insulting and condescending that is, rightly, considered offensive.

[ZombieHorde]

19. Both statements seem subjective to me.

How would you feel if someone referred to your computer as imaginary?

I assume you believe your computer is real, would you be insulted if someone claimed otherwise?

[JerseygirlCT]

22. No

That's a comment that doesn't read to me as so subjective - incorrect, but not an editorial on *my* beliefs.

It's the language that matters. Saying my computer is imaginary isn't condescending and therefore offensive. Saying I believe in an "imaginary friend" starts to be.

I don't mind in the least when people disagree about what we believe (or as the case may be, don't believe!), I mind the unnecessary (snide) commentary that sometimes goes along with it. It's the difference, maybe between expressing your own beliefs and demeaning someone else's.

[ZombieHorde]

23. So,

saying "God is imaginary." is less offensive than "God is an imaginary friend."?

[JerseygirlCT]

30. Well, granted sometimes tone is hard to read

on a message board. But "imaginary friend" usually pretty clearly carries a snarky, condescending meaning.

I think it comes down to the difference between speaking in the affirmative about what it is you believe (or what it is you don't believe as the case may be), without the need to denigrate those who believe (or don't) differently.

[ZombieHorde]

35. I think I hear what you are typing. nt

[Chemisse]

28. Well said.

[Atticus]

24. I have no idea what is offensive, apparently.

I thought I did until last evening.

[ZombieHorde]

25. What happened last evening? nt

[rd_kent]

32. I find it offensive

that someone that considers themselves to be an intelligent, rational human being, can willfully ignore the facts that nothing at all exists to prove a god even exists, and believes in such nonsense. It is offensive to me as a human with free will and thought, that people are still superstitious and fear an imaginary place (hell) created by those in power to keep the masses under control. Religion was created as a tool to control people.

[ZombieHorde]

36. I think religion was created to explain the world in which we live,

and then some groups changed religion for the purpose of control and power, while other groups changed religion as an attempt to promote a higher quality of life.

[IndianaGreen]

38. Religion was created to control people

It is a control mechanism used by those in power to keep people ignorant and fearful.

[rd_kent]

40. Sure, thats the way it started

but they have all been changed as a tool of control. Now that we have SCIENCE, MATH and UNDERSTANDING of things, religion explains NOTHING. THAT is offensive to me that people in 2009 look to religion to explain what science already does.