Pope says Relativism is the Threat because it recognizes no "Divinity".

[patrice]

Relativists DO recognize Truth. That is why they are Relativists, because they value the truth as it is manifested in the "organic" details of the facts of any given specific situation or set of phenomenal experiences.

I wonder how many real Relativists the Pope actually knows personally as to how they function.

This is a case of being out of touch, taking what is said about something at a higher value than the (deconstructed) phenomenon (or phenomena) itself.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. "OldLefieLawyer says Pope bites it"

Nothing personal, Pope. You're just an overdressed virgin with absolutely no moral or intellectual credentials that might cause you to be taken serious by thoughtful, principled human beings.

Kiss my ring, Pope.

[patrice]

2. You'd think he'd at least avoid Rovian obfuscation!

It should be beneath him. He's the Pope he's supposed to be able to handle the Truth, which is Relativists are as good, and maybe sometimes better, than lots of other people, some of whom we even call "holy".

[OldLeftieLawyer]

8. He's the Pope

That means he's nothing but a very talented and scheming politician who made it to the top. Truth means nothing to him. Power, however, means everything.

Nothing is beneath him, in my opinion, since he's the lowest of the low.

Just ask the kids who were sexually molested by priests all those years, and check to see what old Pope Benny was doing about it during that time.

[arwalden]

6. Why Do You Hate Catholics? Why Do You Hate America?

(Hell... once the crybabies catch wind of this thread and your reply, you're going to get accused of bashing Catholics anyway... so it might as well come from me. :loveya:)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

13. WHY?

BECAUSE THEY MADE ME DO THIS:

[beam me up scottie]

14. Oh, the SHAME of it !!!

"But Virginia they didn't give you quite enough information"

:rofl:

[Maat]

28. Ah, that's such a cute picture (n/t).

[patrice]

22. I am a Catholic. I love and hate "the Church", Catholic and otherwise.

[Maat]

27. We all kiss your ring, OldLeftieLawyer!

Eh, you're right - he is overdressed - but a virgin - I'm not sure. That's not the rumor I heard anyway. I guess it boils down to how you define 'virgin.'

[cestpaspossible]

3. What is a Relativist?

I know what relativity is (sorta). I know what 'moral relativism' is - but it isn't a term you often hear people apply to themselves.

I understand the word, but I have never seen it used capitalized before. Excuse my ignorance.

[Tux]

17. Einstein?

I thought he was picking on Einstein but who knows what he is talking about? I heard tht during the elections and now is the best buzzword around. I hear it from our neighbors. 90's were a simplier time.

[aneerkoinos]

18. What Pope means:

Relativism is the dogma that doesn't believe that RCC is the Keeper of Absolute Truth. I would say relativist is a guy who takes a look at the infinite regress of all axioms and says: "Gee, swell!"

[patrice]

23. Relativists think "Truth" is relative to the specific phenomena

in question; truth is not universal. Relativists do not operate on "absolutes", i.e. 100% true statements that are true in all times, places, and circumstances. Truth is specific to a Relativist. It has variations and probabilities, all dependent upon the specific conditions in question. Some truths are similar, but that does not make them, collectively, some kind of absolute. Differences are important. Similarity is possible, but not assumed.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlueEyedSon]

5. F*CK DIVINITY!

[beam me up scottie]

7. ...said the crotchety old dinosaur

as he plodded towards the tar pit.

[Hand]

9. Threat? Sounds like the SOLUTION to me.

"Well, all right, I'll GO to hell!" -- Huckleberry Finn. :toast:

[Warpy]

12. Heaven for the climate

but hell for the conversation---Mark Twain.

I hope the sanctimonious old fool never meets an enlightened Buddhist. He'd probably discorporate from the stress.

[Tamyrlin79]

10. The flaw in relativism...

isn't that it doesn't recognize divinity, but rather that it doesn't recognize truth. We have a relativist media right now that presents both sides but doesn't present the objective facts/truth to determine what is truth, what is simply perspective, and what is rhetorical flourish.

I would then argue that following, standing on truth, is "divine". Is it not divine to be truthful/virtuous?

So, perhaps the pope is indirectly correct, just not in the way that he meant it.

[trotsky]

15. How does moral absolutism recognize truth?

Is something true because a god says it is? Then how do you figure out what god said?

Considering how many thousands of sects, cults, and religions there are, I'd say you're in the same spot as the Relativists, only we acknowledge the problem and have methodologies to deal with it. The absolutists just scream at each other over whose god is "true."

[libertypirate]

11. That's nice BS....

Relativism will never equate anything that it can't understand fully.

The US government is a form of intellectual relativism, it can only include in it's logic what we all share.

This is trampling of separation of church and state, because what is relative to the thoughts of all it's people is the state.

Nice BS.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

16. In a way, it does

because it sets Truth as its ideal. The concept is different than the Catholic concept of God, but one must remember these are still merely concepts, not God Itself.

[JerseygirlCT]

19. Relativist also seems to be the name now

for anyone who strays in the least from orthodoxy (small "o"). Anyone who doesn't buy either the hard-line RCC or fundamentalist line is dismissed as a "relativist" == by which they mean someone lacking in all morals.

[trotsky]

20. Excellent observation.

Taking a page out of the Republican playbook? "If ya ain't wit me, yer aggin me!"

[JerseygirlCT]

21. LOL Yes I've been called a "moral relativist" a time or two.

I translate it in my head to "capable of complex thinking" and then it feels much better.

[aneerkoinos]

24. Ain't that the truth

But what the Pope in his small secluded mind cannot understand, that morality cannot be coded in language. Like Socrates' Daimonion, real and very absolute "morality" happens only outside all rigid codes and language, listening to the voice of conscience which speaks audibly only when we genuinely start surrendering our selves to Love/Compassion/God, which is the only true absolute and possible only beyond inescapable relativity words and consepts, of which needless to say Bible too is made of.

[Zhade]

25. There's no evidence to indicate there's anything to "recognize".

There's also little evidence to suggest Ratzinger is a decent individual. Decent people tend not to cover up cild rape and the like.

[Maat]

26. Yes, and, I believe we are all equally divine ...

so, since I believe that all are on divine paths, I believe in divinity.

And I am a moral relativist.

So, he's full of crud!

[Chauga]

29. Well, if that's true then....

I guess the good ole Pope would think it's better to worship Satan than no one at all.

[sakabatou]

30. What the hells is a relativist?

[CatholicEdHead]

31. Here is the dictionary definiton

"rel·a·tiv·ist Audio pronunciation of "relativist" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rl-t-vst)
n.

1. Philosophy. A proponent of relativism.
2. A physicist who specializes in the theories of relativity."
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=relativist

and that leads us to

"relativism

n : (philosophy) the philosophical doctrine that all criteria of judgment are relative to the individuals and situations involved"
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=relativism

So bascially, life is all different shades of grey according to the individual situation. There are no absolutes in stark black and white, which fundamentalist applications of relgion push.

In the Pope's case, it is a power trip as since the 1860's and papal infallibity, what he says goes, that's it, end of discussion, black and white.