Can you turn off the laws of nature?

[Boojatta]

You may have seen a so-called "light switch." It's a device used in control rituals. Brainwashed people watch a performance by a light-switch operator who creates the impression of a causal relationship between the state of a light switch (on or off) and the state of a light bulb (luminous or non-luminous).

We know that everything is controlled by the one big hidden switch. We conclude that a little light switch cannot control anything. Obviously the control rituals display correlation and no actual causation.

However, we know that an ordinary light switch would be useless if it were stuck in the off position. Consider a similar idea, but think about the one big hidden switch. We cannot ascribe causal power to the one big hidden switch unless it changes state from time to time. We wouldn't need to be able to turn off the laws of nature, but we would at least need to observe that the laws of nature have toggled from one state to another state. There need to be at least two states. Otherwise, the one big switch wouldn't have causal power.

[orpupilofnature57]

1. I Believe laws of nature are ambiguous until we Explain Or Exploit ,then

there ours ,then their fu-ked.

[laconicsax]

2. What says the laws of nature are controlled by a switch?

Why not a slider or dial?

[Teaser]

3. There are no laws of nature

Things happen. Sometime things happen and we even expect them to.

[rd_kent]

4. Care to share that joint?

So I can grasp what you are getting at?

[Boojatta]

5. Kick

[Boojatta]

6. Kick

[tama]

7. Causality

Can you project two kinds (or more) of mental images of possible futures - possible meaning not in conflict with experience of natural happening? E.g. 1) a mental image of running of cliff with very propabilistic inability to turn of gravity, 2) instead of running of the cliff and into the abyss, taking a detour or stopping. Now, do you allow causal arrows from these projections of possible futures to came back in time to now and causally effect actualities happening, the way the feet walk or don't, on each occasion?

Now, projected mental images of possible futures change state from moment to moment, from step to step. There is a pile of dung on the street and the projected future image of smelling bad, laughed at and washing shoes is an image to be preferably avoided, so the image sends causal arrow from future to this actualizing moment where feet are now caused to choose a path that avoids the stinking pile.

This kind of causality from future to present is every day, each moment fenomenon. Yet most (believers in layman's science) choose to believe that causality happens only one way, from past to future, from classical wholly deterministic mechanics to mental phenomena, from prewailing theory to what is being most directly experienced.

So yes, for any switch to choose wich potentialities actualize, there has to be at least two potential states to choose from. Choises and possibilities are codependent categories. But real freedom is not numerical consumerism, that the more choises (degrees of freedom) there are available, the better. At least without the freedom from choosing, freedom from projecting various future images&situations and evaluating their preferability, letting and inviting future viewpoints causate present behaviour... :)

[Boojatta]

8. Kick

[Boojatta]

9. Kick

[Sal316]

10. Yes.

The "Laws of Nature" are simply man's way of understanding, currently, how the universe works.

Things don't happen because of the laws of nature.

[LAGC]

11. So how do things happen then?

Is God (or his delegates) consciously dictating where every single atom moves to at any given point in time?

If so, how did such complexity come into existence? Kind of goes back to the "If God creates everything, who or what created God?"

[Boojatta]

12. Perhaps I failed to express myself clearly enough.

I chose the words "laws of nature" rather than the words "today's science" because I wanted to refer to actual laws that currently existing science attempts to identify and describe.

Analogy: 22/7 is one approximation of pi. If there were no concept of pi, then there would be no mathematical truth about its value and no basis for saying that any approximation is excellent, satisfactory, or unsatisfactory.

[cleanhippie]

13. "Things don't happen because of the laws of nature". Hmmm, well then, how DO things happen?

Please, enlighten me.


:popcorn:

[dimbear]

14. There is a large domain where the usual laws of nature do not apply.

It is the domain which is the complement of our universe since the big bang. It is so different there that it can best be described as nontemporal and nonspatial, so obviously nature there is strange.

[jdp349]

15. If said switch existed would it be encompassed and governed by the Laws of Nature?

The answer to that question I think would determine whether said switch is actually capable of turning the laws of nature off or not.

[Deep13]

16. I resent nature's arbitrary power to impose laws on me without my consent! nt

[Boojatta]

17. The word "laws" gives the idea of a power that isn't completely arbitrary.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

18. I think you are talking Newtonian physics vs. Relativity.

But i'm not sure.

Quantum mechanics/relativity is nto observable in our normal world. There are some very strange things in relativity. Consider the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.


GRAVITY - IT'S THE LAW!!!

Read up on Newton's laws.