Chief exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth says Devil is in the Vatican

[BurtWorm]

I don't even know where to begin with this. This is an example of reliigious behavior that truly baffles me. I have difficulty seeing it as anything but delusion at worst and play-acting at best--or reverse that, if you want. In any case, it seems so far from rational, adult behavior, but here is a man who has spent 85 years living it. It astonishes me.

Is this defensible behavior and belief?




http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7056689.ece



From Times Online March 10, 2010


Richard Owen in Rome


Sex abuse scandals in the Roman Catholic Church are proof that that "the Devil is at work inside the Vatican", according to the Holy See's chief exorcist.

Father Gabriele Amorth, 85, who has been the Vatican's chief exorcist for 25 years and says he has dealt with 70,000 cases of demonic possession, said that the consequences of satanic infiltration included power struggles at the Vatican as well as "cardinals who do not believe in Jesus, and bishops who are linked to the Demon".

...


Father Amorth told La Repubblica that the devil was "pure spirit, invisible. But he manifests himself with blasphemies and afflictions in the person he possesses. He can remain hidden, or speak in different languages, transform himself or appear to be agreeable. At times he makes fun of me."

He said it sometimes took six or seven of his assistants to to hold down a possessed person. Those possessed often yelled and screamed and spat out nails or pieces of glass, which he kept in a bag. "Anything can come out of their mouths – finger-length pieces of iron, but also rose petals."

He said that hoped every diocese would eventually have a resident exorcist. Under Church Canon Law any priest can perform exorcisms, but in practice they are carried out by a chosen few trained in the rites.

Father Amorth was ordained in 1954 and became an official exorcist in 1986. In the past he has suggested that Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin were possessed by the Devil. He was among Vatican officials who warned that J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter novels made a "false distinction between black and white magic".

He approves, however, of the 1973 film The Exorcist, which although "exaggerated" offered a "substantially exact" picture of possession.

In 2001 he objected to the introduction of a new version of the exorcism rite, complaining that it dropped centuries-old prayers and was "a blunt sword" about which exorcists themselves had not been consulted. The Vatican said later that he and other exorcists could continue to use the old ritual.

He is the president of honour of the Association of Exorcists.

[druidity33]

1. you don't have to be an exorcist

to figure that one out...

K&R.

[The Magistrate]

2. And In Other News, Sir: Gold Is Yellow And Damned Heavy....

[havocmom]

3. Only surprise for me is that Exorcists have an Association

The Vatican/devil thing has always been a no-brainer.

[global1]

4. You've Got To Be Kidding - There's An Association of Exorcists?.....

Wonder if they have annual meetings and a journal? Wonder if they have a website? Wonder what their meetings consist of? Think of the topics they must discuss. Wow!!!! I'm blown away by that. An Association of Exorcists. Go figure.

[leftyladyfrommo]

7. Probably just a bunch of fun loving guys that drink too much. n/t

[DBoon]

16. do they have a union?

collective bargaining?

What would happen if they went on strike?

[FiveGoodMen]

5. No one that crazy should be influencing public opinion or policy

[leftyladyfrommo]

6. Some people really believe the devil is everywhere.

A constant threat. It would be awful to really believe that. Kind of like the people who honestly believe that Obama is the antichrist. What an awful thing to believe in.

Personally I don't think there is a devil. I believe in the existence of evil but I think it is only a product of the human mind. No devil out there in the animal or natural world.

[callous taoboy]

8. Deep psychosis.

[leftyladyfrommo]

9. Or just plain ole deep shit. n/t

[Ian David]

10. Once, the devil turned me into a newt. n/t

[DBoon]

17. but you got better, right?

[Christa]

11. So this is the excuse for all the wrongdoings then

"He added: "When one speaks of 'the smoke of Satan' in the holy rooms, it is all true – including these latest stories of violence and paedophilia." "

:eyes:

they are innocent because satan made them do it :eyes:

[charlie]

12. Fr Malachi Martin used to allege the same thing

Professional devil hunters tend to get a little paranoid after a while.

[saracat]

13. I wonder if the Association of Exorcists is unionized? And if so, imagine what their benefits would

be ???????:rofl:

[CoffeeCat]

14. Does the Association of Exorcists...

...have a Facebook page? I'd like to friend them and see some of their
videos!

:wtf:

[Chulanowa]

15. Uh... right.

So a guy who casts out demons and evil spirits for a living is making a claim... Seriously, a fucking witchdoctor is saying something, and this is newsworthy? Nothing against witchdoctors (I know a few!) but damn, they're not newsworthy!

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. Well, outside all the other insane ramblings there, Harry Potter does NOT

make any false distinction between white and black magic - only a distinction between people who use power for good and those who use it for evil.

Because, of course, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS MAGIC.

All grown ups know that.

[thereismore]

19. nails and glass from the mouth? Sorry padre, I think you are full of shit. nt

[frogmarch]

20. For fun, in the late 70s

I had an exorcism performed on me by an evangelical minister who was the pastor of the church one of my friends attended. She thought I was possessed by demons, or at the very least, being stalked by a couple of them. I thought, what a hoot this will be. And it was.

To make a long story short, the exorcist jumped around and yelled biblical passages at the demons, and then he grabbed a broom and swept the invisible entities out the door, warning them to stay away from me, or else.

I'd rather hoped to capture them in a bottle. If I had done that, and hung onto the bottle, think of all the money I could now make by selling it on Ebay.

Edit to add "by selling it"

[leftyladyfrommo]

21. Sounds kind of like a normal service for some of the really right wing

churches. Jump around and speak in tongues and throw yourself on the floor and roll around.

That stuff scares me to death.

[frogmarch]

24. I'd forgotten to mention

the speaking in tongues. He didn't do it during the exorcism itself, but he did right before, when he was hooking up to the Holy Spirit, to make sure they were on the same wave length - for protection, I suppose. Or something.

The exorcism didn't scare me. In fact, I had a hard time keeping a straight face, especially when he grabbed a broom and started sweeping my demons out the door. :rofl:

[BurtWorm]

22. I wish you'd caught it on film!

How long did it last? Was this done in a ritual space? It doesn't sound as elaborate as the Catholic ceremony.

[frogmarch]

25. So do I!

I've wished often through the years I could have filmed it.

I think it lasted between 45 minutes and an hour. The first part - that is, when the preacher (Assembly of God) asked me questions - took place in my living room and lasted about 20 minutes, I think. He asked if I believed in Jesus, God, and the Bible. When I said no, he told me to try to say I did, and when I said "I'm not going to do that," he said it was because I couldn't, which was because Satan was keeping me from it. He kept trying to get me to read from the Bible. Finally, I relented and read a psalm. He said Satan was a great trickster and allowed me to read the psalm to trick the preacher into thinking I was free of demons. At the end of the inquisition, after communicating with God in tongues, he determined I was infested with demons. Well, he was pretty sure I was infected with a couple of them, anyway.

After that, we went to the church and the rest of the procedure took place in the sanctuary. Shouting biblical passages, he would jump around in wide circles for a while with his arms outstretched and his eyes closed, and then he would fling himself on the floor and roll around for maybe 10 seconds each time, and then suddenly lie very still in a crucified Jesus position, eyes staring upward, and without breathing. Then he would pull himself to his feet and tear at his hair and clothing, all the while, with spittle flying out his mouth, yelling threats at my demons and ordering them out of me. Eyes brimming with tears, he would wave his arms in front of my face and stare into my eyes without speaking for a few seconds every now and then. The end of it came when he grabbed the broom and swept the demons away.

I really had a good time. My non-religious friends were all very jealous.

[BurtWorm]

26. Did you ever laugh out loud?

Or should I say, did Satan ever make you laugh out loud?

[frogmarch]

27. Whenever I felt a laugh coming on

I buried my face in my hands so that the exorcist and my friend wouldn't see me laughing. If anything, they may have thought I was crying, since my friend didn't ask me afterward what was so funny.

If she had, I wonder if I would have been quick-witted enough to say it was Satan who had made me laugh. If there's ever a next time, I'll be sure to use that excuse. Thanks for the tip. :-)

[moobu2]

23. Damn, I hate that the long distant exorcism didn't take on Hitler.

According to secret Vatican documents recently released, wartime Pope Pius XII attempted a "long distance" exorcism of Hitler which failed to have any effect.



LinK

[RagAss]

28. Thorazine for Everyone !!!

[iris27]

29. Somewhere between delusion and play-acting -- you've hit the nail on the head.

This guy sounds very much like my mother, who professes a very real belief in the daily influence of Satan and his demons in the world. I still find myself unable to accept that she really, honestly believes what she says sometimes...seems more like she's just making a convenient (if utterly ludicrous) excuse for whatever unpleasant circumstance or personality clash she is dealing with at the time.