Is religion inherently corrupt?

[Archae]

I say yes, if the religion is authoritarian in nature.

Just look at the Vatican, Scientology, Wahabi Islam, Southern Baptists, etc.

[saltpoint]

1. Some is and some isn't.

When we're talking about Franklin Graham or Pat Robertson, it's both hyper-authoritarian and batshit crazy as well.

But there is the unaffiliated good person who follows one or another of the world's faith traditions who is genuine in trying to help others in need. That person isn't on tv and doesn't have a megachurch but is real just the same.

[timtom]

16. Bingo!!

Thanks for your discerning intelligence.There are too many here that have an actual hate relationship with anything Christian. I won't mention any subsequent posts...

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maru Kitteh]

3. Religion no. Power, yes.

[Hekate]

13. That is exactly what I was going to say, Maru.

[pepperbear]

4. ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjPs3bFQxKo

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

5. yes

but now that i am an ordained reverend now, you should do what ever i say.

[paulsby]

6. any institution that is composed of men (and women)

is inherently prone to corruption

i don't care if it's government, religion, or anything else.

[roguevalley]

the basis of religion, the sense of the spirit and spirituality, the idea of

belonging to together and to the world is fine. the structures some put around the idea of the soul can be very bad. IMO. If you read the basis that most of these religions are built upon, they are good. Strip off the crap and you have light.

[The Straight Story]

7. No more than the democratic party

or any other belief system people adhere to.

[Skittles]

8. yes

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

9. i an sorry i should not have done that

but if you really are looking for direction, i am willing to be a sounding board BUT i warn you I am extremely liberal and 39 % of american would say a bad influence.

[Richard Steele]

10. Religion is just religion. "ORGANIZED Religion" is inherently corrupt.

Different.

[old mark]

11. Of course it is. It is a human-created device for giving control and power

to a few individuals. In many cases, that power extends to life and death, certainly to control of behavior and always to financial gain for those specially appointed ones at the top.


mark

[damyank913]

30. Agreed-art imitates life.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. Define "religion". And define "corrupt".

Shit, that's just for starters.

[tama]

14. Depends

Power hierarchy, dogma replacing direct spiritual experience is corruption. Applies also to some scientific dogmas/paradigms.

If e.g. direct spiritual experience with ayahuasca (etc.) is defined as religion, then it is freedom from corruption.

[Hekate]

15. Not inherently. However, power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely....

In my experience, religion, ritual practice, spirituality, belief in a higher power, meditation, etc, etc, can lead people to make a good life and be good to others. Small relatively egalitarian groups often encourage this well.

When devotees give over their free exercise of conscience to highly authoritarian leaders, whether of large or small groups, they endow their leaders with much too much unchecked power, and that is where corruption creeps in and takes over.

Hekate

[ironbark]

17. If religion is inherently corrupt

then the vast majority of humanity, now and in the past, must be inherently and doggedly stupid and incapable of abandoning such corruption.

As far as I’m concerned humanity moves inexorably forward making pretty basic common sense choices to retain what is useful and fruitful and (eventually) abandon useless corruptions.

The future may well hold the abandonment of religion…but I dare suggest that will only transpire when something better, more fulfilling and fruitful is provided.

[damyank913]

21. Religion is simply a way to centralize or focus power and it lends itself to corruption.

[ironbark]

22. Many dictatorships and regimes

have had centralized and focused power to the point of totalitarianism.
Yet, time and time again, the people have either risen up against or abandoned such regimes

If “religion is simply a way to centralize or focus power and it lends itself to corruption” then one would expect the historical record to reflect populations rising up against such corrupt, power focused centralized religions on a sustained/regular basis.

If that is all religion is, simply a tool for power and control, tending to corruption….why do people cling to it for thousands of years instead of abandoning it in decades as they have with corrupt political systems?

[damyank913]

23. Because it satisfies social, superstitious, and in some cases governmental needs.

Not saying the institutions have no positive impact at all. Just saying...

[tama]

26. All institutional hierarchies

are inherently corrupt - including church organizations, states, parties, academy, corporations etc. etc. etc. etc. It's a well known human psychological trait that those in power don't think that the rules they pass down in the hierarchy aplly to themselves. Abandoning such corruptions is often called "anarchism" but anyone is free to call it what they want. :)

[ironbark]

28. If for no other reason

than preservation of my hopes for human governance…I have been trying to think of exceptions to your rule-
“All institutional hierarchies are inherently corrupt”

I tried to think of an unarguably just and incorruptible king…and failed.
(Saladin came to mind…but I’m not sure he holds)

Democracy? Two wolves and a lamb sitting down to choose what’s for dinner.

“It's a well known human psychological trait that those in power don't think that the rules they pass down in the hierarchy apply to themselves”

Are you telling me that turds inevitably float to the top of the institutional hierarchy gene pool? ;-)

Lord forbid!

“Abandoning such corruptions is often called "anarchism" but anyone is free to call it what they want”

I call it ‘home’…and I want my dictatorial institutional hierarchy power back.

[madrchsod]

18. no...

[TexasProgresive]

19. Since religions are made p of human beings, yes

Every individual has the propensity to corruption and when we gather together it is compounded.

[WVRICK13]

20. Any Entity That Is About Power and Wealth

hiding behind mental control has got to be corrupt. I am an atheist and I bet I could start a religious group and generate more money than I make working. It is all about firing people up, telling them what they want to hear and taking their cash for the pleasure. Lots of people are like sheep waiting to be herded. Even if I were religious I would not got to church and listen to another mortals interpretation of ancient writings. Although I am atheist I think the teachings and philosophy of Jesus is pretty good stuff. Unfortunately the christians don't follow the teachings or they would be screaming for socialism from the pulpits.

[rug]

24. Of course not. What a stupid question.

[dmallind]

25. Nope not as a religion per se

I'm no fan of religions obviously but there is nothing that means they have to be corrupt. From one point of view any power structure breeds corruption but even in that sense we are dealing with subjectivity in most cases. There are also non-hierarchical religions out there where power is not a significant component.

Religion has enough problems defined as it is without trying to pile on more. Religion simply means a body of thought on metaphysical subjects with some form of defined tenets (with a wide range in both quantity and rigidity) that must be held by adherents of that religion. The very word means to bind or constrict (in the sense that beliefs are bound by religious identification). Nothing in there necessitates corruption.

Nopw it's fair to say many if not most religious organizations have some elemnet of corruption, be it anything from using control of the meeting agenda for personal priorities to outright embezzlement and ensslavement of followers. However I am unlikely to be convinced the same could not be said of ANY organization - including atheist groups incidentally (not so much on the embezzlemnet and enslavement here though)!

[TexasObserver]

27. Yes. Humans run religion, and those in charge like to be in charge.

Those who run religions value authoritarianism over spirituality. They have to, or they wouldn't be running religions.

[mcollins]

29. which came first?

dude, your question begs that you have to question if humans came before gods did. If they did and humans are corrupt then yes of course gods are too. But, if gods came first and are corrput, then humans are too. right?
Did Jesus make mistakes? Yeah, I suppose so, he go nailed to a cross. He pick peter to be the rock of the church, and look how screwed up that turned out. Muhammad didn't name a successor and now the sunni and shia hate each other. Hindus..dude, lets not even start.
What about the old gods? Wow, there was some fucked up shit happening there. Roman and Greek gods were just crazy. Even the celtic gods are all freaked out half the time.
Yeah, I think so.