Men beating women in the name of religion

[Sheepshank]

Retrieved from Freeperville with some interesting comments regarding the evilness of Islam

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4105.htm

Egyptian Cleric Mazen Al-Sarsawi Cites 7th-Century Muslim Scholar: If Your Wife Bothers You – Beat Her with the Rod

In a recent TV sermon, Egyptian cleric Mazen Al-Sarsawi extolled the virtues of corporal punishment to keep wives in check. Using stories from the early days of Islam to support his argument, Al-Sawsawi said that when there are marital problems, "the solution is to give the man a free hand to discipline his family members and to control them. By no means can a woman be the head ."

In the sermon, aired January 7, 2010 on the Egyptian Islamic channel Al-Nas TV, Al-Sawsawi recounted the story of Said Ibn Al-Musayyib, a 7th-century Muslim scholar known for his piety, who married off his daughter to his student, Abu Wada'. Al-Musayyib imparted to his son-in-law advice on how to deal with his new wife: 'If she bothers you – if something annoys you, or if you suspect anything – beat her on the spot with the rod. Break her head."

He continued with another story – that of Asmaa, the daughter of the Caliph Abu Bakr, whose husband Zubeir would tie her to his other wife by their hair and beat them both. When Asmaa complained to her father about this unfairness, ("he beat me black and blue, even though I didn't do a thing"), Abu Bakr's response was: "Go back to Zubeir. He is a good man, and he may become your husband in Paradise."

Text

Compared to:

http://christiandomesticdiscipline.com/how_to_discipline.html

Rebuke and Lash. .....Usually, exhortation will have already taken place before this method is used, but there may come situations where this is the first step......
When administering physical discipline, take caution not to deliver the lashes anywhere but the buttocks. The first attempt at this punishment should only be delivered by hand so you can get an idea of how many lashings are needed. The best position will be for you to sit at the end of a bed or on a chair (with no arms) and have her lay across your lap. She can also bend over a bed with arms tucked under her chest and your left hand on the small of her back. If a strap (belt) is to be implemented watch that each stoke falls directly on the buttocks and not higher. EDITOR'S NOTE: When using the hand, or a small, short implement, such as a switch or small "hairbrush"-type paddle, over-the-knee positioning can work quite well.

A fearful wife may begin crying or pleading and find it difficult to remain still. Reassure her. of your intent and love (yes this will hurt, that is why it is a punishment) then instruct her to be still. Remind her that she is not in control of this discipline. You should continue the lashing through her tears and pleas for you to stop, until you are certain the message was received. This will insure her remorse and therefore stop the undesirable behavior.

A sound lashing is five to ten strokes with your hand, or three to five strokes with a strap; some wives need more. To avoid brusing do not strike the same area in repetition. Gauge your decision to proceed based on your wife's readiness to repent.

Why is it that on Freerville I read constantly about the how Islam treats it's women and how it's evil and demeaning and ungodlike, yet fail to mention anything about what is happening in their own back yard? Why is is that Freepers are always harping on about overseas aid, and want aid to remain in the USA, yet want to punish Islam overseas, and ignore the aid needed here when it comes to religion? Ironic isn't it?

[Dr Morbius]

1. Freedom of Religion cannot be extended to a right to inflict harm. (nt)

[Jennicut]

2. Freepers only care about other women in other countries just like

they care about fetuses but turn their noses up at the poor kids born in unwanted pregnancies. It is far easier than actually dealing with our real problems.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. The purpose being to beat the evil menses out of them dirty women

[enough]

4. The Causation for Disciplining Your Wife

A few choice words from the instructional materials from Christian Domestic Discipline (linked in the OP):

snip>

The Causation for Disciplining Your Wife

Men and women are different. But we often just gloss over what those most crucial differences are. Yes, men and women are different physically, and also men and women think differently. But what we often fail to recognize is than men and women sin differently. Men have sin struggles that are typical of men and almost alien to women. Likewise, women struggle with sins that men may not even recognize as being sin issues. Here's a bare-bones sketch of the dynamics:

1. Women by their peculiar sin nature resist earthly authority and trust.
2. Women will seek earthly security at the expense of emotional and/or spiritual security.

much more>

[Sheepshank]

5. so wrong on so many levels

and I really botched up the quote boxes...I like that no one makes 'that' the issue lol.

[iris27]

16. I admit, for half a second, I thought "WAIT...someone at FR is actually comparing these?"

"Man, they're gonna get killed in the comments!"...then I realized the quote boxes were just wonky. :)

[Dr Morbius]

8. I think one has to wonder where they GET this stuff. (nt)

[msongs]

6. the dominant religions are male invented myths and tools to subject women and children nt

[Sheepshank]

7. yikes! Regular maintenance beatings

Beatings just to remind the wife that she needs them? I didn't see anything about *this* being promoted by Islamic clerics!

Maintenance Discipline: Discipline, usually spanking, given at regular intervals for the purpose of maintaining a submissive mindset in a wife, correcting minor faults, and/or reinforcing marital roles.

One of the more misunderstood aspects of Christian Domestic Discipline is the concept of Maintenance Discipline.

First, it needs to be pointed out that Maintenance Discipline is not used, nor should it be used, in all CDD marriages. Some women feel unfairly punished if maintenance is used. Some feel they are not receiving any "grace" from their husbands for simple mistakes, and some stay so uptight about the upcoming maintenance spanking, it is counterproductive rather than helpful.

But in other women, maintenance works very well. Some wives have an extreme need to "feel" their husband's authority on a regular basis, and for some of them, play spanking is not enough. It needs to be something "real". Therefore, maintenance works well for that couple.

Whether from upbringing, temperament, or other reasons, some wives have a difficult time maintaining a submissive mindset toward their husbands. Regular maintenance spankings can go a long way toward keeping her heart softened and willing to surrender to her husband's leadership.

Some couples use maintenance to correct minor faults, or to help her stay on the path set for her, thereby avoiding a much-dreaded, more severe, punishment spanking.

I read notes sent in by the wives wanting this...OMG very disturbing how much brainwashing is in religion!

[TankLV]

12. Then again some use maintainence spankings as a form of sexual gratification...

My, my, my...

[lunatica]

9. And people wonder where violence against women comes from

Why it's straight from the mouth of god as direct commands to subjugate all those uppity women who are put on earth to test, tempt and be impure vessels for satan who any prick can beat out of them with impunity! As a matter of fact the more often you beat your women the more satan leaves them alone and the more god loves ya!

[Perky]

10. Do you honestly think that this ia prevalent view and practice in Christiandom?

[mzteris]

13. ever lived in a fundy "christian" part of the country?

Hellz yeah it's prevalent in some "sects" of a "christianity". . . They love to beat their kids, too.

[darkstar3]

15. Abso-fraggin-lutely.

See James Dobson. If that man's penchant for hitting kids is any clue I guarantee he beat his wife too. Not to mention the ridiculous number of abusive relationships propped up in the buy-bull belt by the verses dictating that a wife be subservient to her husband.

Then there's this...Figure out if this website is satire or not and get back to me.

And may Apollo light your way...

[jemelanson]

19. There are many different sects associated with the Christian Religion

Some of the main stream ones have regressed in the area of Women's rights and Human rights.

http://current.com/entertainment/wtf/89109622_women-who-dont-submit-to-husbands-are-to-blame-for-domestic-violence-says-baptist-scholar.htm


Women who don't submit to husbands are to blame for domestic violence, says Baptist scholar


One reason that men abuse their wives is because women rebel against their husband's God-given authority, a Southern Baptist scholar said in a Texas church recently.

Bruce Ware, professor of Christian theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, said women desire to have their own way instead of submitting to their husbands because of sin.

"And husbands on their parts, because they're sinners, now respond to that threat to their authority either by being abusive, which is of course one of the ways men can respond when their authority is challenged--or, more commonly, to become passive, acquiescent, and simply not asserting the leadership they ought to as men in their homes and in churches," Ware said from the pulpit of Denton Bible Church in Denton, Texas.

Ware said God created men and women equally in God's image but for different roles.

"He has primary responsibility for the work and the labor and the toil that will provide for the family, that will sustain their family," he said. "He's the one in charge of leadership in the family, and that will become difficult, because of sin."

"...A woman will demonstrate that she is in fact a Christian, that she has submitted to God's ways by affirming and embracing her God-designed identity as--for the most part, generally this is true--as wife and mother, rather than chafing against it, rather than bucking against it, rather than wanting to be a man, wanting to be in a man's position, wanting to teach and exercise authority over men,"


There are various articles out there that put forth such gems as that Christian Women should not use birth control, because the only Christian reason for having sex is to create children. However they also say that women must submit sexually to their husbands when ever her husband desires to have sex. Also that women who seek a separation and or divorce from their husband on the grounds of sexual infidelity or abuse should go to their church and let the elders of the church decide if their health or life is in danger so as not to compound one sin with another sin. A woman is not equipped to make those kind of decisions on her on.

The treatment of women by the Christian Religion has been no worse than the treatment we see being handed out by the Muslim Religion. As our Muslim sister fight to be recognized a full member of the human race we must stand with them. We have fought that battle and we still fight it today.

[TankLV]

11. I think there are porn site devoted to "spanking" too...

Maybe they mixed it all up?

[onager]

14. Hmm. Here's an interesting development...

From the official Report on the Status of Egyptian Women in 2008, http://ecwronline.org/pub/TheStatusOfWomenIn2008.pdf:

Al-Azhar supported a Turkish and Saudi Arabian fatwa permitting women to beat their husband in self-defense.

Al-Azhar University in Cairo is the world's oldest Islamic university. It's the home of some fairly liberal experts (within the context of Islam). One frequently quoted in the media is Souad Saleh, one of the world's VERY few female experts on sharia law.

I spent the years 2005-2009 living in Alexandria, Egypt, so I keep up with news from the place. And yes, I saw women harassed all the time. In public.

A few more notes from the report:

(Poll) results indicated that half of the women believed that their husband had the right to beat their wives in at least one of the following cases: if she burns the food, if she argues with him , if she leaves the house without telling him, if she neglects the children, or if she refuses to have sex with him. 17% of women believe that beating is justified in any of the above reasons...

Therefore, Egypt was ranked first in the world for the prevalence of wife-beating husbands. The percentage of Egyptian women who reported domestic violence went up from 23% in 2003 to 40% this year.

There are a few liberal developments...

A draft of a law was submitted by Zenab Radwan, MP, on the need to postpone a sentence of execution in cases where a woman is breastfeeding to a time when she is no longer breastfeeding...

Do I really need the "sarcasm" smiley...?

[hyphenate]

17. As a woman, I feel nothing but rage

when I read some of this stuff. And there really isn't much I personally can do about it.

I've been thinking lately about something, though, that there are an awful lot of men in this world are neglecting to think about.

Haven't any of these overbearing, control freaks considered that treating women better could lead to a better sex life? Think about it: being equal partners in lovemaking, women can initiate motions which could very well intensify the man's orgasm, and along the way, sharing an experience like that could become far more pleasurable than treating the woman like shit and hurting her.

It's also very telling, IMO, that these fucking assholes have to beat their wives--like it makes them so proper to beat a person probably half their size, and who are unable to defend themselves. Such men are not righteous, good or even in any way following the words of their alleged savior--and that's not just about those who supposedly follow Mohammed, Christ, or hell, any of the religions of the world.

All these alleged "saviors" were created by men. Is it therefore surprising that any and all religions are ABOUT men, and how they must dominate women? Men were terrified of women. They were the ones who bore children, who bled every month without complaining, and who despite the same amount of work as a husband, still managed to keep the family together. So of course the creation myth blatantly blamed women for the downfall from "paradise." According to MEN, women would go through history suffering for that "lapse" of good sense.

Men who treat their wives, girlfriends, or other female friends like equals get a lot more out of their relationships, regardless of what that relationship might be. It's so much more obvious when you compare the male dominators with the separate but equal guys. The first group, which probably contains most of the entire extreme religious right and the entire extreme Muslim right as well, seems to think anything they say about women should be taken without question. I don't want to make any woman suffer more than she has already suffered, but in order to change these bastard men, or at the very least salvage some rights for their posterity, we are going to have to keep pushing the limits, and keep finding ways around the limits these religious jerks try to set.

Sorry--I rant when I think about how arrogant and ignorant these people are.

[PassingFair]

18. Don't feel so singled out...they extol the "virtues" of beating the crap out of children, too!

I got into it with a well-meaning Xtian at work just yesterday.

She's a fan of Dr. Dobson, and I was having a good time with
the "news" about his ASSociate, Dr. Rekers...

She asked me "What's wrong with Dr. Dobson?".

"Well first of all", I told her, "he collects tax-free
money which he uses to influence political races and
to work against civil rights issues (she's black, so she
can't answer back on this, although she is TOTALLY gay-phobic).

"What else?" she asks.

"He advocates corporal punishment for children."

"What's that?"

"He says you should hit your children if you want them
to grow up obedient."

"There's nothing wrong with that, I smacked MY children."

"And I bet YOU were smacked, too, right? Why is it OK to hit
the most vulnerable people? Would it be right for management
to HIT you if you weren't "on target" or goofing off?"

"No."

"But it's OK for you to hit your children, just like YOU were
hit, perpetuating the cycle of violence?"

"We agree to disagree." <------This is how many of our conversation end these days.

Whatever. Just so long as she actually has to THINK
about some of the crap she vomits out.

[DeSwiss]

20. Religion ruins EVERYTHING. n/t