5.7 on the Weird-Shit-O-Meter

[PCIntern]

So this lady comes in to see me today - Fridays are just impossible in this business - and she tells me that in addition to the Jehovah's Witness tracts which she is going to give me, as she has countless times before, she wants to tell me that these are very important times for me and for my Jewish family, because these are most certainly the End Times. I let her finish and everything and then I guess i made a mistake by answering her question: what was I planning to do?

I suppose the 'correct answer' would be to have shown interest in converting to her thinking, but Alas! I did not. I said to her: "You know, I've been thinking a lot about this lately, and have to say that given how you feel about this, that you are really most fortunate that God, or Hashem as we call Him (no point in not really getting on her nerves) has chosen this time, your time on Earth, to do this. Of all of the thousands of generations (I suppose in 6000 years there really haven't been that many, but WTH cares) of organisms upon this planet, you are going to be among God's Chosen few...and so I suppose that we really don't have to be too concerned about your remaining teeth, because all will be well fairly shortly, so you won't be needing your partial denture or front tooth, as after The Rapture, all, or at least you, will be at the right side of God Himself, and we know that in His ways, your teeth will be fixed. Perhaps they'll look like Sammy Davis, Jr.'s if He sees fit to do so."

When she just stared at me in disbelief, I continued, "If you wish to proselytize, that's just fine, but don't expect me to be terribly receptive, since I for one, have no belief at all in your system. I read your tracts because I'm curious and I'm polite, but please do not think for even a moment that your beliefs, no matter how sincerely you may feel are correct, are anything but academic to me."

She did stay and get her work completed. She will of course be back...because I PARTICIPATE IN HER INSURANCE PROGRAM. which of course, is the Trump card in all of this. Love of Money, as it has been said, is the root of all dental and medical loyalty.

[Ron Green]

1. ROFL!!! THis sends me out upon my weekend in fine fashion.

[Subdivisions]

2. Bravo! K&R. n/t

[hamsterjill]

3. Good for you!!!

Hee hee - I think you told her!!! LOL

[spanone]

4. F A N T A B U L O U S!!!

r

[gratuitous]

5. I appreciate your concern, ma'am

And if you're correct, and the Lord is indeed returning soon, I guess I'm going to just have to take my chances, and be about the business I've worked and trained for all my life. If I'm called suddenly to account for it, it's the only honest answer I could return. Anything else would just look like I was sucking up.

[PCIntern]

7. I did that one 8 years ago with her...

as an intersting patient of mine once said, "I'm at my end."

So am I...

[berni_mccoy]

6. Simply. Awesome. Thanks for sharing!

[Mopar151]

8. The antecedents of the Witlesses

The Millerites waited on their roofsfor God to take them...

October 22, 1844

1843 prophetic chart illustrating numerous interpretations of prophecy yielding the year 1843The sun rose on the morning of October 22 like any other day, and October 22 passed without incident, resulting in feelings of disappointment among many Millerites.
“I waited all Tuesday and dear Jesus did not come;– I waited all the forenoon of Wednesday, and was well in body as I ever was, but after 12 o’clock I began to feel faint, and before dark I needed someone to help me up to my chamber, as my natural strength was leaving me very fast, and I lay prostrate for 2 days without any pain– sick with disappointment.”<5>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment

[ironbark]

13. Not “without incident” nor without possible fulfilment.

Millers first prediction was-

“My principles in brief, are, that Jesus Christ will come again to this earth, cleanse, purify, and take possession of the same, with all the saints, sometime between March 21, 1843 and March 21, 1844.”<[br /> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment

(The reasoning and math behind Millers prediction are worthy of examination)

The Declaration of the Bab May 22-23rd ,1844
Marks the beginning of a events and a religious movement that claim to fulfil the Second Coming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A1b

The Bab (‘Gate’) preformed a similar role to John the Baptist while claiming an independent revelation.

He was followed by-
Bahá'u'lláh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%27u%27ll%C3%A1h

Bahá'í Faith
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baha%27i

Central Baha’i beliefs are that the second coming was, as Miller predicted, fulfilled in 1844 but as with the ‘first coming’ not in the manner expected. ie The people of Judea did not get a warrior on a horse with a flaming sword and Christians/Millerites did not get a second coming that involved physical decent on/in clouds.

The Baha’i faith now complrises some 5-6 million adherents, is said to be growing at about the same rate as Christianity in its formative period and is also claimed to be one of the most global/diverse religions.

Central Baha’i principles are- One World, One People, One Faith.
The ‘One Faith’ principle is not a call to assimilation but rather the recognition that the worlds major living religions worship the same god.

A principal point of rejection in Iran at the time was the practicality of any form of ‘one world’ globalization when communication was so difficult.
Curiously the resolution to that difficulty was provided a day after the declaration of the Bab with the birth of the technology we are currently using to communicate.

First telegraph message, 24 May 1844. Samuel Morse. On May 24, 1844, Samuel Morse sends the telegraph message "What hath God wrought? ...

There are more than enough curious coincidences and stastical anomalies (ie Progressive Revelation) to place the entire episode on the weird-shit worthy of further investigation metre. Especially considering there are currently a number of issues that require a global response and that any such ‘one world’ response is firmly in the crosshairs of the Christian right as-
The work and objective of the Antichrist.

[wolfgangmo]

36. If nothing else.

The B'ahai's tend to be very progressive and very liberal. I know some and they tend to be really great folks.

A few other tenant of the B'ahia faith that impress me is the edict that if there is every a conflict between what the faith believes and what science has proven in the future that B'ahia's are to follow the science.


Now that's a progressive religion.

[ironbark]

39. I agree with your assessment of Baha’is as people

and I share your observations re being very progressive and very liberal.

My second father, adoptive dad, was an Aboriginal Elder and a Baha’i.
A truly remarkable man who was hailed by many as a saint.

I have been toying with the idea for some time of dedicating a thread to him and what he lived, taught and exemplified.

But I’m not at all sure I want to provide the shooting gallery with something to shit on.

This is an image and an outline of the man-
http://www.loreoftheland.com.au/indigenous/banjo/index.html

His full story would take more than the one book written about him-
http://www.wisdommanbook.com/banjo.html

I too like the Baha’i stance on religion and science and the fact that they have no clergy. I have a bit of a problem with their all male supreme leadership and doctrine on homosexuality but in all my encounters saw no trace of sexism or homophobia.

I am curious to know what you made of their claims regarding all major faiths being one and the fulfilment of return prophecies?

[Duer 157099]

9. I've heard that the fastest way to shut up the JWs is

to say "let's pray together" or something to that effect. It's like their cryptonite or something.

I've never tried it myself, not wanting to take the chance that they would, though.

[Ian David]

10. You invite them in and immediately start getting naked.

Either they leave or have sex with you.

Kind of a win-win.

[ironbark]

15. Not to be countenanced……….but still funny. Mormon News.

“MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA -- The bizarre case of two men accused of giving two LDS missionaries cookies laced with marijuana ended Friday with their convictions. Alexander McLean, 47, was sentenced to two months in jail while Douglas James Lynch, 40, was fined $450. McLean's sentence was suspended for 12 months, and he says that he will appeal.”

http://www.mormonnews.com/991219/D2Cookies03.shtml

[jeff47]

33. A couple houses back, my neighbors were Catholics

They'd invite the JWs in, telling them the JW gets an hour to talk, and then they get an hour to talk.

They converted about 75% of the JWs to Catholicism. Eventually, the JWs stopped knocking on their door.

[trotsky]

11. Well, now I understand why my dentist is closed on Fridays. n/t

[struggle4progress]

12. The Jehovah's Witnesses dropped by here last week. I told them that

I knew who they were and what they stood for and that I appreciated their antiwar stand but disagreed with them on some other (unspecified) issues. We chatted pleasantly a few minutes and they left smiling. I wasn't going to change their minds, so I didn't try. They weren't going to change my mind, so I didn't give them much of a chance to do so. They didn't interrupt me much or take much of my time. Why be an asshole when there's no real need for it?

[DeSwiss]

14. Without the wildly grandiloquent and bombastic cast of characters of religious fables.....

...and the inclusion of the necessary back-stories to fill-out the skeletons that these ancient myths also provide (thus rendering a raison d'etre), I would otherwise think that most religionists are very likely terribly boring people. People who've simply acquiesced to the demands of popular dogma and have given-up trying to figure out life upon their own responsibility. They have chosen to go along with the crowd and to accept what's already on life's teevee. They have accepted these rather incredulous myths over reason. And in spite of reason. They have chosen to believe in crazy tales of supermen and gods. Along with their panoply of sub-deities and the necessary angels of protection/destruction.

And are also probably the most exciting things about their lives -- at all. But then we'll likely never know.

- At least not as long as that endless loop of propaganda is all they hear playing in their heads......

K&R

[alphafemale]

17. Great toon!

Right click - Save.

[formercia]

16. Very professional and funny.

The JW come by here on a regular basis, even though they know I'm not interested but they use it as an excuse to peruse my garden.

I will make my Paradise here on Earth.

This crap about being a good Serf for a reward in Heaven is for the Chumps.

[dballance]

18. I work with a JW Who's Really Accepting and Intelligent

I work with a person who is a Jehovah's Witness. She's really intelligent and doesn't disrespect me even though she knows I'm gay. In fact, we have a really good relationship. I'm an atheist and she knows that too but we can talk and debate. Actually, we enjoy those conversations. So I'm sorry your experience with a particular person was not as intelligent as my co-worker and friend.

[ironbark]

19. A rare and refreshing post and pov. Thank you.

It’s a pleasure to hear someone present a balanced account. What you describe confirms most of my life experiences in that quite often I encounter people with extremely differing and diverse beliefs and, despite or because of the differences, we get on quite well.

I hope you will appreciate a token of my appreciation.

A “Liberal loving woman” being “accepting” of difference-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW7HLqOgM20

;-)

[truth2power]

23. That's been my experience, too...

I've never had any problem with the JW's. From time to time, a couple of them will come to my door (maybe once a year, or even less often). I never feel pressured by them. I tell them that I understand what they're saying, but it's just not my path. I believe there are many different paths to the same destination.

When I was in high school, a very looong time ago, one of my classmates was a JW. One summer, he would come over to my home and some of my friends and I studied with him. It was interesting, and I learned a lot, in general, about the bible, but I knew, even then, that that wasn't going to be the path that was for me. And actually, this classmate never tried to pressure us into becoming JW's. At the time, I was a member and regular churchgoer of a denomination that has since merged with and become United Methodist. Pretty mainstream.

I make a distinction between Jehovah's Witnesses and the real fundie nutcases...Assembly of God comes to mind. I've had some really bad experiences with those guys. So, I can understand PCIntern's response in a sense. I think we're all suffering from battle-fatigue from having certain theocracy-crazed lunatics bang away at us day after day. It does cause one to go off on people who may not really deserve it, from time to time.

* * * *

edit> Revised last paragraph to clarify that, IMO, there's a vast difference between JW's, who don't intrude into the political sphere, and Dominionist-types who want people stoned for adultery and such.

[quakerboy]

26. me three

somehow, Ive never had a jw come to the door when I was home. Despite living literally next door to a major church and administrative center. for a few years at one point. They seem to have given their direct neighbors a pass. Perhaps a case of don't piss where you sleep?

Ive known a few JWs over time. One in HS. I was a loner, but he was at least friendly to me. I got to meet and play with his dog in a time when I really needed that interaction for my own mental health. We debated long and hard about belief systems, he trying to convert me, me certain that whatever truth is, it was not that, and willing to try and hammer that point home. I suppose its the same drive that brings me to an internet politics board.

I clearly recall one of my best experiences when I was door to door canvassing for John Kerry. I came to the door, and an older couple came out and invited me on to their patio. we normally had a script and kept things moving, but I engaged that day, and we talked about it all. They explained that JW's dont vote, don't participate in govt in any way. We talked about some of the things they cared about, and where that coincided with what I cared about. I dunno if I am persuasive or if they were just so far past my skill level its not funny, but by the time I left, this older life long non voting JW couple promised to really consider registering to vote, and I believed them.

That said, I still believe the JW's are a cult. Its unfortunate.

[RayOfHope]

31. You are right about the Assembly of God folks. I live near their world headquarters

and people that buy into their shit are a certain kind of crazy. They are very in-your-face people.

[ironbark]

38. Once again…subjective experience varies.

I used to work with psych disabled adolescents in post hospital residential care. After a year with us the kids had to move on, home was often not an option and high rents made housing difficult. One of our clients got involved in the local Assembly of God Youth Group and I had real concerns for him. The Assembly found him cheap/decent accommodation and provided surrogate family and support. He kept coming back to visit and introduce other clients to the Youth Group…I kept raising concerns about vulnerable kids being exposed to weird theology and/or cult indoctrination.
Quite simply I was wrong. Over a 3-4 year period a dozen or so clients became involved in the Youth Group, got a great deal of support/healing/community from it…and only two of the girls ever joined the assembly then drifted off/out within six months.

I still think the Assembly’s theology is weird…but from what I saw-harmless…and they provided an effective/healing social service that saved taxpayers millions.

The field is wide open for anyone else to step up and demonstrate how such services can be better provided.

[darkstar3]

40. Are you still carping about that?

There are plenty of people out there, as you have been shown repeatedly on this board, who are providing such services with no faith behind their motives. You ignore them because they aren't specifically atheist, or because they're not as nationally organized and renowned as the Salvation Army, but that is mere intellectual dishonesty. The services that you constantly assert are provided by no one except the church are easily found elsewhere by anyone willing to look. Get off your high horse and smell what you're shoveling.

[ironbark]

42. Seeking Round 4 on the same issue?

Then hop back in the ring at the point at which you fled last (3rd) time.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x246566#246759

37# and on.

Be more than happy to clear up your latest falsifications...when you have learnt to cease fabricating and start substantiating.

;-)

[darkstar3]

45. You're funny.

When you link back to places where your false assertions and jaw-dropping bullshit stand out in full view, you don't make any points for yourself.

Keep winking, hypocrite, it only serves to make you look even more like a tool without a shred of skill or credibility.

[ironbark]

46. Thank you. I too find your posts hysterical ;-)

The distinction being that I can and do say precisely how and why-

Your (on record) claim that ‘Native American Society’ represented a ‘secular commune’ gave me a bit of a giggle.

And your repeated insistence (40#) that there are “plenty” of secular agencies out there doing parallel work to the Salvo’s is almost as funny as the fact that you are >still< unable to actually name any.

But your biggest laugh by far was generated by your continued rejection of church schools and welfare agencies being front line in protecting against child abuse (“No kudos” to them you said) when the focus should be on “…the REAL role that protective agencies like police, fire, and EMT organizations’ provide.

LOL! The Fire Brigade! It still cracks me up ;-)

So…… Oooow, Ouch, oh woe, you say “bullshit” and call me “hypocrite”, ouch, pain, woe….

And I sit back and wait for you to do anything funnier than your inability to cite, specify or provide single example.

;-)

[darkstar3]

47. Disingenuous extrapolation. n/t

[Schema Thing]

34. If you get very familiar with her religion... she'll no longer have

...friendly debates with you.



And if say, her best-Witness-friend came out as gay, she'd almost certainly shun that person, not even speaking to them.


I used to be a Jehovah's Witness. If we'd worked together, you probably would have used me as an example of a cool, intelligent, reasonably learned Jehovah's Witness. That doesn't change the fact that I believed nutty doctrines and followed crazy, hurtful rules that were literally destroying me. And while I eventually escaped that religion and those beliefs, I had to lose my family, my friends, and my entire community structure to do so.

[SeattleGirl]

35. My next door neighbor is JW. She and I have had many

wonderful conversations, particularly about religion. She discusses it more from a belief standpoint; I discuss it from a more intellectual curiosity standpoint. It's never been a problem, because we respect each other.

Respect is the key, imho.

[bertman]

20. That's the kind of response I think of AFTER the offending butthole has left. Very nice!!

[A Physicist]

21. The Church of the Realized Fantasy

I have friend who is not very polite or deferential to religious people’s beliefs. He has one of those old fashion satellite TV dishes; in some homes the TV is always set to Fox Noise, in his it is always set to a European porn channel.

When Jehovah Witnesses show up at his door and say they would like to discuss their religion he (in a polite tone) tells them he will listen to their spiel if they will first listen to his. He invites them in and sitting in his living room (with big LCD TV in background) proceeds to tell about his religion – The Church of the Realized Fantasy.

He speaks of the spiritual value of two Asian chicks and one guy, two Black chicks and one guy, two blondes and one guy, the enlightenment achieved by suckling large breasts, and so on and so forth, and he has this routine down to a science.

Mission Accomplished: Door knock and WatchTower be gone.

[madmax]

22. Wow, just wow!

You were fabuloso! Good on you PC, I don't have your tact or patience. :hug:

[demigoddess]

24. I had two LDS missionaries show up at my front door and I told them that

my religion did not believe in trying to convert people. They professed not to understand the 'No Bible thumpers" sign on my front window. All the bible thumpers profess not to understand it. Once the missionaries claimed my husband called them and wanted them to show up. I did not know that lying was allowed when trying to convert people. Oh! I forgot! they are christians! that explains it!

[Cleita]

29. We have barking dogs.

None of them get past the gate.

[mike_c]

25. mega rec....

Best. Response. Evah!

[tomm2thumbs]

27. I was at a mormon's house with 2 missionaries when 2 Jehovah's Witnesses came to the door

I kid you not - talk about being bombarded

all these folks worrying about everyone else's garden while likely not tending to their own.

[grantcart]

28. I ask them if they are aware of the fact that the word Jehovah never appears

in the Jewish bible.

The clever ones will reply no we know that it really is Yahweh.

I explain that Yahweh never appears in the Hebrew bible and if they can't even get the name of the guy right then what else have they screwed up?

[patrice]

32. It's impossible to get the name right, or wouldn't that obviate the whole necessity of a "god" were

it otherwise.

[patrice]

30. Almost MORE than anything else, this is what Americans NEED to do for one another: Honesty!!

We MUST stop being afraid of one another and we MUST communicate the truth in a manner that raises NO issues other than the singular contrast between opposed propositions about the truth.

:applause: PCIntern :applause:

[Turbineguy]

37. I'd inform her she needs 18 crowns.

If she turns out to be right, she'll be glad she did!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

41. What if she is saved person number 144,001????

Tough luck.
There have already been over 144,000 JWs alive, and they say the gate limit is 144K.

My hubby's mom's family was destroyed for over thirty years because his mom's sister and his grandma became JWs. His mom did not speak to them for over twenty years.

The sister said she would come take care of DH's mom when she was dying of cancer in 1968.
Mom's reply was, "Yes you can come, as long as you keep your GODDAMNED RELIGION TO YOURSELF!!".

Oh and they got PISSED because the poem Abou Ben Adhem was read at her funeral.


Abou Ben Adhem
By James Henry Leigh Hunt 1784-1859

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold:—
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the Presence in the room he said
"What writest thou?"

—The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered "The names of those who love the Lord."
"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerly still, and said "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men."

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.

===========

:banghead: What idiots.


I consider JWs to be one of the most dangerous of the cults out there. Quite sick and dysfunctional. Lots of child abuse, sexual abuse, etc. And I have no love for the Ass of God either. Or the Church of Christ. I live where there are lots of all these folks running loose spreading their socially acceptable psychoses.

[BobbyBoring]

44. Roger Dat

This is what I don't get about not only JWs but evangelicals in general. There are supposedly 50,000,000 people in America alone that believe we are in the end times. Do the math folks! Just in the USA that equals 49,856,000 who are in the basically fucked category, plus the rest of us! Of course, figuring this out would require thinking and these folks aren't much on that!

[RagAss]

43. A little Thorazine would do these folks a great deal of good.