World condemns planned US Koran burning

[struggle4progress]

September 10, 2010 - 2:44AM
AFP
... In the town of Mahmud Raqi, close to the massive US-run Bagram Air Base, Afghans chanted "Down with America" and other anti-Christian slogans as they marched ... http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/world-condemns-planned-us-koran-burning-20100910-153g6.html

I can't tell whether that sentence is just a sloppy edit, some really bad translation from French to English, some sparkling down-under tongue-in-cheek, or an accidental window into the anonymous writer's mind

[BrklynLiberal]

1. All of this is the result of the demented ravings of a pseudo-pastor, with a flock of a few dozen.

I guess when things are so flammable, any spark, no matter how insignificant, will ignite the flame....

This country, and perhaps, the world, is really in a very scary and very precipitous place...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ybenjamin/detail?entry_id=71928
9/11 Burn a Quran day motivated by Terry Jones' greed, money & avarice?

<snip>

Jones' answer? He feigns religious persecution. He says his bank wants his church to pay what it is owed. He also says he has 200 Korans and he wants buy more to burn. There is no subtext or code for what this pastor wants. He wants you to send him and his 50 followers money and lots of it. Yes, please send money by joining as a "member" of the church. He also needs money because Florida authorities discovered that he was running a for-profit eBay enterprise and the state wants to get paid for sales taxes.

God has no part of Jones' plan. His plan is the Terry Jones plan and it was the reason why his old church in Cologne Germany fired him. His motive is as earthly, worldly and as old as humanity itself - greed and avarice. Terry Jones has figured out the magic formula to get every self loathing zealot nut job in the world to send him money --- Get on every TV, radio, newspaper and web site and plead for like minded idiots to send money. There is no doubt that several hundreds of new "members" have sent in their tithes to pastor fake doctor of theology.

The First Amendment of the US Constitution protects Jones' right to say and do what he wants. Jones has the right to burn Korans even in the face of Gen. David Petraeus's dire warnings. To emphasize his intention to burn Korans, Jones wrote a screed on his blog.

<snip>

[cleanhippie]

3. Its not all his fault

The 24 hour news cycle and its incessant need for more controversy is what has turned what should have been a non-issue into a world-wide travesty.

[ZombieHorde]

32. What makes him a pseudo-paster? Is it because his version of his religion does not match your idea

of his religion?

[cleanhippie]

2. I cannot speak on the author

but this whole incident is just more evidence for how religion is just not good for rational humans. I just hope that in the 20-40 years I have left of my life (statistically speaking) I will see a world where rational thought and secular society is the majority.

[humblebum]

4. History shows that it doesn't take religion to cause irrational behavior. nt

[Taverner]

5. No but Faith definitely does

Faith is belief without evidence

Soviet citizens had faith Uncle Joe Stalin was working in the best interests

Albanians had faith Enver Xosa was working in their best interests

[cleanhippie]

6. You are right, not always...

but more often than not, religion is the cause. Actually, it is not so much RELIGION per se, its the irrationality that comes from religion, so I guess one could say that religion breeds irrationality which breeds irrational behavior....

[humblebum]

7. I'm much more inclined to say that it is human fanaticism that causes

such irrationalities. It's a simple fact that more have died under atheism and atheist dictators than in all religious wars combined. Those particular episodes of irrational behavior were not the actions of religious people.

[cleanhippie]

8. Hahahahaha! I knew you wouldn't be able to go very long without saying it....

Fucking priceless!






Thanks for the belly laugh, I needed that!

[humblebum]

10. Needs to be said much more often. It may be funny to you, but

that many deaths is no laughing matter.

[cleanhippie]

13. It is very, very funny, especially when you state it!

Tell me, what was the ideology of those "atheists" you despise so much? As an atheist myself, do I share that ideology and am I a threat to others, as you are implying?

[humblebum]

15. How would i know what you are capable of. you being an atheist has nothing to do

with it.

[cleanhippie]

18. But you said being an atheist is what caused those deaths.

It's a simple fact that more have died under atheism and atheist dictators than in all religious wars combined.


So you must think that as an atheist, I too, have the same ideology, right?

[humblebum]

20. That is a factually true statement. You can make of it what you will, however

you know that's not what I said. But it most certainly was not done by the religious, therefore religion is not the only cause, nor even the main cause, of such irrational extremist behavior.

[cleanhippie]

22. So what is it then?

Ideology?

[cleanhippie]

9. So which is it?

Is it human irrationality or atheism that caused all those deaths?

[humblebum]

11. Irrational atheists. All too clear. nt

[cleanhippie]

12. No, you said it was "irrational humans"......

It cannot be both.


What was the ideology of those "irrational atheists" you are talking about?

[humblebum]

14. Did you just say that atheists aren't humans? That's even worse than

what you already said.

[cleanhippie]

17. Is that what you think I said?

Because its not.

And sorry, you said "human fanaticism" not "irrational humans", my bad.


SO which is it that caused those deaths, "human fanaticism" or "atheism"?

[humblebum]

19. If they belonged to the "League of Militant Atheists" or to

the "Society of the Godless", or simply "The Godless" and if they reading the "Atheist's Handbook" or their actions were inspired by "the Atheist" newspaper - I would have to say that they were both fanatical atheists and irrational human beings, or any combination thereof.

[cleanhippie]

21. Its one or the other, but not both.

And again, as an atheist, do I share the same ideology?

[humblebum]

23. It certainly is not one or the other and I have no idea what your ideology is. nt

[cleanhippie]

25. Sure you do, its the atheist ideology.

By your rationale, I too, must subscribe to the same ideology as "the league of militant atheists", right? Can you explain to me what that ideology is, then?

[humblebum]

27. You are the one making these broad generalizations, not me.

What happened, happened. A part of their stated "ideology" was the elimination of all organized religion and religious observance by whatever means - violent or not.

"The Atheist’s Handbook was published in Moscow in 1959 in conjunction with Khrushchev’s campaign to eliminate the remaining traces of religion in the U.S.S.R. This text attacks the Bible, the Qur’an, Christianity, and Islam. “Science,” says the Handbook, “has long since established that Jesus Christ never existed, that the figure of the alleged founder of Christianity is purely mythical.”4 And according to the Handbook, the Apostle Paul, too, turns out to be “a mythical figure.”

[cleanhippie]

28. WHOSE ideology?

A part of their stated "ideology" was the elimination of all organized religion and religious observance by whatever means - violent or not.


WHOSE ideology? What group was promoting this ideology?

[cleanhippie]

29. I guess I'm not gonna get an aswer on this.

Too bad, too, I thought we were getting somewhere.

[humblebum]

30. You said:

"I just hope that in the 20-40 years I have left of my life (statistically speaking) I will see a world where rational thought and secular society is the majority" and "...as an atheist, do I share the same ideology?"

Well, good old Khrushchev had a part in writing "The Atheist’s Handbook, was published in Moscow in 1959 in conjunction with Khrushchev’s campaign to eliminate the remaining traces of religion in the U.S.S.R."

So what am I to conclude? It appears that you share the same goals, but maybe different means. If a person carried around a copy of the Atheist's Handbook, belonged to the League of Militant Atheists, read "the Atheist" newpaper, believed in state atheism and subscribed to the policy of Scientific Atheism - i can only conclude that the person probably has an ideology of atheism.

[cleanhippie]

31. Can you point me to where I can get a copy of this "ideology"

that I seem to share with them?

I find it hard to accept that my simple "lack of belief in a god" is an ideology I can use to justify killing people.

[cleanhippie]

36. I guess not.

But I really didn't expect you too.

[struggle4progress]

16. Apparently nobody in this forum can see in the OP text the strange phrase

"Down with America" and other anti-Christian slogans, which so bizarrely promotes the rightwing US nationalist belief that opposing America is just anti-Christian

It may say something about our cultural context that we here pass over such matters so quickly and lightly

[Jim__]

24. You mentioned in the OP the possibility of bad translation.

I don't know any French, but, phrases like: "Down with America" and other anti-Christian slogans seem to be somewhat error-prone in translation - depending, of course, on the expertise of the translator.

[cleanhippie]

26. Not sure why, but sice America is not a christian nation

I fail to see how the author equates "down with America" as an anti-christian slogan.

[ZombieHorde]

34. Oh shit, I just commented on that, I should have read the replies and then added my own reply. nt

[uberllama42]

35. I read it to mean

"Down with America" and other, anti-Christian slogans, but I grasped what your concern was. To me, it sounded no different than when I might say I and these other girls at work even though I am male.

[ZombieHorde]

33. ---"Down with America" and other anti-Christian slogans---

"Down with America" is an anti-Christian slogan? Hmmm....