Less popular than atheists?

[YankeyMCC]

I wish I could see the actual poll this is hard to believe:

(snip)

While researching their forthcoming book about American religion, the Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam and his colleagues polled on this hypothetical question: Say a group of Buddhists wanted to build a large temple in your community. How would you feel? Putnam & Co. asked about Buddhists because, they had discovered, Buddhists are one of the least popular religious groups in the country. People like Buddhists less than they do atheists and Mormons—and only slightly more than they do Muslims.

(snip)

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/17/religious-zealotry-and-american-grace.html


And it doesn't bode well for this atheist Buddhist, no wonder I'm not very popular. ;)

[Mojambo]

1. As an atheist I sometimes go out of my way to hate on Buddhism

Not that I dislike anything about it particularly. I just think Buddhists tend to get a free ride sometimes.

But according to this, maybe they don't.

[YankeyMCC]

2. Well thanks for your efforts anyway ;) n/t

[Odin2005]

7. LOL, I'm an Atheist with Buddhist sympathies.

[Curmudgeoness]

3. I have trouble believing that Buddhism is so unpopular.

I can't imagine why.

And WTF, an atheist Buddhist? That's a new one.

[skepticscott]

4. The only reason I can think of

it that it seems so "foreign" to most Americans, and therefore is something to be hated and feared. But I'd wager not 1 in 100 of those who profess to dislike it know the first thing about it.

[YankeyMCC]

9. That's a common theme isn't it?

People hating what they don't understand

[Cleobulus]

5. Techically, dependind on tradition, Buddhism is atheistic by default...

in that it doesn't have any particular beliefs about deities. Some traditions mix Buddhism with local deities and spiritualism.

[Warpy]

6. No, it's a mainstream one

Buddha himself was an atheist. He was also an ordinary human being, not a god. That's one thing civilians most misunderstand.

I have no idea why Buddhists are unpopular. It's not like we go around knocking on doors and waking people up early on Saturday mornings.

[Curmudgeoness]

11. I guess that I should learn more about Buddhism.

I always say that I am "like a Buddhist" when I won't let anyone kill a bug. I just assumed that there was some "god". Isn't that what constitutes a "religion"? And isn't this called a "religion"?

Maybe it is the way they dress that scares people away. At least the way the Buddhists who are in the news are dressed.

But really good point about the knocking on doors. I wonder if Jehovah's Witnesses are lower on that poll than Buddhists and atheists.

[Odin2005]

14. He believed in "devas" but they were not "gods" in the modern Western sense.

Since he conceived them as just as bound to the laws of Nature as we are. It is important to differentiate the core of Siddhartha Gautama's teachings from the South Asian cultural baggage anyone in that part of the world would have had at the time. he didn't really care for metaphysics and theology, he is to have said that metaphysical navel-gazing was equivalent to getting hit with a poisoned arrow and then demanding to know who shot you, what clan he was from, etc. before getting medical treatment.

In one discourse I ran into via the book I mentioned elsewhere in this thread the Buddha says "Suppose there is no hereafter and there is no fruit of deeds done well or ill. Yet in this world, here and now, free from hatred, free from malice, safe and sound, and happy, I keep myself."

[wookie72]

15. Well, he came from a Hindu background.

He was more agnostic than anything.

I've actually heard atheists (BIll Maher included) criticize Buddhism because they disagree with the idea that "life is full of suffering." I heard that and could not believe it. It's just grasping for anything to criticize.

[Warpy]

18. Yes, and his awakening came when he realized

all the fearsome gods he'd been wrestling with all arouse from his own mind.

He thought folk gods probably had their uses for people who seemed to require them. He did not.

[wookie72]

20. Nonetheless, that's different from simply atheism.

YMMV.

[charlie]

23. How? n/t

[wookie72]

25. Atheism, to me, anyway, is the active denial of God

Some call that anti-theism. In any case, if you're a Buddhist you'd know this is all word games. :)

[charlie]

19. The idea is "life is suffering"

Not, "life is full of suffering", which is a different proposition. Maybe they weren't grasping.

His Hindu birth didn't necessarily have anything to do with his theistic notions. Joe Stalin studied to be an Orthodox priest.

Agnosticism doesn't preclude atheism. They're different measures.

[wookie72]

21. I don't think of it as a spectrum

agnosticism is more "we can't know." A lot of people have a hard time with that concept.

[charlie]

22. Again, it doesn't preclude atheism

An agnostic who remains unconvinced by arguments for the existence of God(s) is also an atheist.

[wookie72]

24. No, it is different

That's something I find Dawkins doesn't understand. Agnosticism is truly saying that it is impossible for human beings to know the truth about God.

[charlie]

26. No, it is not

And Dawkins has graded his certainty about the non-existence of God(s) and it's below 100%, somewhere around 8 out of 10, if I remember right. He knows all too well God(s) cannot be proven or disproven, which makes him... an agnostic. And an atheist.

[wookie72]

27. Yes it is. Atheism is a decision. nt

[charlie]

28. A decision to remain unconvinced?

I don't know if that's a decision that you can actually make.

I see what you want here. Atheists are those who assert with full conviction that there is no God(s).

A lot of atheists will be surprised to find they aren't, by order of your ruling.

[immoderate]

29. An atheist gets to decide if god exists?

That's power.

--imm

[wookie72]

30. Decide whether they believe a God exists.

[immoderate]

31. Just plucking your strings.

This argument is revisited so often.

I've also seen that "atheists are people who hate god." Totally cuts the existence question out of the loop.

I'm an atheist, because I have no god. I'm also agnostic because I have no proof.

I know that people use words in different ways. But what I said here is true of most of the atheists I am in contact with,

--imm

[dmallind]

38. Yes and deciding they do not believe is not deciding on absolute denial

If you claimed to be a multimillionaire with teh looks of a supermodel and the body of a pro athlete I would probably not believe you, but I would not take it as an article of faith that it's impossible that you are.

[cleanhippie]

39. Wrong!

Atheism is a LACK of belief. Its the default position. One CHOOSES to believe, one does not BELIEVE there is not a god. I know that apologists want to make it all about a BELIEF of some sort, but thats not the reality.

Remember, atheism is the default position we are all born with, a child does not CHOOSE not to believe, they are TAUGHT to believe, usually through coercion, intimidation and fear (which should be considered child abuse, but thats another topic).

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. You say "agnosticism is 'we can't know'", and you call atheism a "decision"

so what do you call people who just don't know, because they haven't made a decision?

[wookie72]

36. I think they would still be agnostic nt

[cleanhippie]

35. We are ALL atheists.

Or at least we were born that way. Its the default position.

[dmallind]

37. Nope - the two answer separate questions

Despite sloppy modern incorrect usage agnosticism is a fairly new word (1869) the originator of which left voluminous writings on what he meant. Agnosticism is not a "third way" on belief in gods. You either believe in one or more gods (theism) or you don't (atheism). They are as much of a binary condition as symmetrical and asymmetrical for obvious linguistic reasons. The greek prefix "a" means "without" not "against" or "denying".

Agnosticism is an epistemological position not an ontological one. It simply denioes teh validity of knowledge gained from gnosis or mystical certainty.

Nampy pamby atheists who don't want to offend people and shallow thinkers who want to seem like they are enlightened have bastardized the word over the last few decades so that way too many people believe as you do, often through no fauilt of their own beyond acceptance of common vernacular as factual. It is however a completely distnct classification that hinges not on belief or even degeree of belief but whether and hwo we can klnow the answer.

I for example do not know who will win the World Series, but I do not believe the White Sox will even though they might just with some unlikely circumstances manage it - it is still mathematically possible after all. So I am both atheistic in regards to the faith of White Sox championships and agnostic in how we can know this (I don't believe there is a way to know this from simple revealed inner knowledge).

Funnily enough I feel the same way about all religions. ALL of them - equally. I do not pretend that it is certain that the Hindus are wrong, or the Muslims, or the Christians. I just do not believe they are right. That may be a subtle distinction or semantic wrangling to some, but the difference is easily demonstrated by using examples like the above.

[Odin2005]

8. "Confession of a Buddhist Atheist"

http://www.amazon.com/Confession-Buddhist-Atheist-Stephen-Batchelor/dp/0385527063

[Curmudgeoness]

12. So many books, so little time. Another on for my read list. nt

[Odin2005]

10. No wonder people think I'm crazy!

:rofl:

[dkf]

13. Buddhism is the only religion this atheist respects.

It figures the Judeo Christians don't approve. Buddhists don't like war enough.

[safeinOhio]

17. Practice of

Theravada Buddhism in India has few if any deities unlike the Tibetan branch. Because some Christians handle snakes it is no reason to pen the practice on all Christians.

[Drale]

16. Thats hard to beleave

All the Buddhist I know are the most peaceful people I know, and personally I only know one family of Mormons and they are bad shit crazy (that just my personal experience, I doubt they are all like that.)

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. FWIW, this looks a bit like "least popular" as in "not many are actively in favour of it"

rather than "many actively oppose it". The one figure the article gives about Buddhism is:

Three quarters of Americans said they would support a large Buddhist temple in their community, but only 15 percent would explicitly welcome one. Americans, in other words, supported the idea of a temple but weren’t so crazy about the bricks-and-mortar aspect of things.

The thing is, "explicitly welcome" means, to me, someone saying "this is an improvement over it not being built". And if you don't believe in a particular religion, and don't know anyone who does, you can be perfectly accepting of it, but not "explicitly welcome" a temple for it. I wouldn't "explicitly welcome" a stamp-collecting shop in my neighbourhood, but that doesn't mean I have anything against them. I'm just not interested in them.

[struggle4progress]

34. Buddhists ... I think we learned about them in high school: they practice Boodoo

and hang out in airports chanting Hari Krishna