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ironbark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 09:33 AM
Original message
Real Religion. Football.
An examination of public and cross cultural discourse through the analysis of football as reflective of ideological/religious/cultural belief and behaviour.

Hereafter ‘The Ball’ represents- the specific idea, issue, argument, knowledge claim or proposition under discussion or in contention.

The Player/man represents- the proponent, claimant, believer, non believer or advocate (and, importantly, their personality, character, reputation and integrity)

The ‘Codes’ of football represent- (Sometimes specific, sometimes a nexus) of the various religious, non-religious and national/cultural rules, traits, norms and expectations under and through which the specific issues are kicked around.


In Europe, Asia, Sth America, hell lets face it, most of the world the prevailing religion is Soccer.
Soccer is played with an almost total fixation on the ball/issue…control and skilled manipulation of the issue is paramount and made difficult by the prohibition against picking up and running with the issue. This curbs and diminishes the holding onto of any given issue/idea and any consequent sense of ownership. The issue/idea can be kicked around and must be rapidly passed to and fro to avoid interception…but it cannot be picked up and held as if it belonged to you. Only the Goalie, guardian against a point being made/scored in the argument, can, as a line of last defence, pick up or snatch the issue out of the air and briefly hold it.
In the Religion of Soccer you do not tackle the opponent at all, not allowed. If you kick another player in the shin with insult against his personality/intelligence he will lay on the ground holding his ankle and cry until the Ref gives a yellow warning card. If you should actually tackle another players character or integrity it’s a red card and off the field with you.

In essence Soccer is the religion of strict ‘Play the issue not the man’ with such highly developed foot-ball skills that it is rare, in the course of an exchange, for any given issue to be resolved in reaching the goal.

At the extreme other end of the Football spectrum is the Religion called Grid Iron (The very name is a dead giveaway).
Grid Iron religion is the Football almost entirely devoted to the foot never touching the ball/issue.
Grid Iron is the >ONLY< religion in which it is not only permitted but necessary to make personalised attack on another player who is not only NOT IN POSESSION OF THE BALL/ISSUE/POINT in contention but NOWHERE NEAR THAT BALL/ ISSUE/ POINT. In Grid Iron religion the ball/issue might be miles away but some unsuspecting soul is still getting poleaxed into the ground, without cause,reason or justification.
Such is the disinterest in the ball/issue and the brutal and barbaric nature of the personalised attack that the players must go >ARMOURED< to protect their character and integrity. No other religion in the world requires its practitioners to go armoured against such random savagery.

Also unique to Grid Iron is the necessity of a ‘Cheer Squad’ to encourage the game practitioners to display greater disinterest in the issue and undertake further personalised attacks.

The religion of Grid Iron may be summed up as- Play the man not the issue, if you have the issue in your possession throw it away before someone removes your armour with their teeth…and...above all, try to impress the Cheer Squad.

In regard both of the above religious codes their rules, practices and principles (or lack thereof) have a profound effect on the practitioners, their culture and their civic and international football dialogue and interplay.

As often happens the true football faith arises as a small obscure cult in a distant realm. It is frequently a fusion, adaptation and improvement on its predecessors and its organic expansion inexorably concludes in global domination and the liberation of millions from the shackles of mere superstition.

Aussie Rules is the religion in which the issue is the primary focus but not to the exclusion of the tackle. The opponent may be vigorously tackled but ONLY IN RELATION TO THE ISSUE/BALL HE IS HOLDING. No issue/ball, no tackle, no need for stupid cumbersome protective armour. The issue may be run with, bounced, kicked around and ‘handballed’ (punched) from one practitioner to another…but the issue is not thrown away just because some tank is running at you…that would be blatant cowardice.
The nature of the tackle and the rules governing it are vital tenants of the faith…an opponent may be tackled on the issue or on the stupidity of the pov expressed but if your tackle does not articulate precisely >why< the others pov is stupid you’re the one wearing egg. In like manner push and shove ad hom is acceptable play but ‘high tackle falsification’ or ‘around the neck fabrication’ of an opponents pov is seen as dirty play. ‘Putting the boot in’ is to kick an opponent with tackle attack on character and integrity…for such filthy play your just sent off. In the case of all tackles it must be clear that the opponent was actually in possession of the issue/ball you are attacking him over. If you accuse the opponent of having held an issue or expressed a pov and cannot/will not substantiate and prove the validity of your tackle…you are committing a foul, you’re weak as piss, and will not only be sent off by the Umpire but Booed off by the crowd. The requirement to >substantiate< the validity of an accusatory tackle establishes the precedent of scientific principle fused with football faith.

Aussie Rules football is the new/true faith, the rules and principles of which are only now beginning to penetrate and permeate the boring and barbaric predecessor codes.
It combines the ‘Play the issue not the man’ focus of Soccer while not abandoning the thrill of the legitimate pov tackle nor sinking to the heathen depths of Grid Irons brutal disinterest in the issue and focus on playing the man.
Nor does Aussie rules require a bunch of skimpy skirts to Cheer and cajole the practitioners on to greater acts of needless violence towards opponents not even near the issue/ball.


To assist in your inevitable conversion to the True Faith here are some audio/visual aids-
The ‘Mark’ or ‘Speckie’{ie ‘spectacular grab}…taking a leap up and over the opponents argument, indifferent to the danger, total ‘eye on the issue’ focus, to take possession of the arguement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtm9AVjqTUc&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQitq7tTN-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BAaCBC1V1Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZtX0ZmE1L4&feature=related

How the issue/point is resolved without wimpy protective armour-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BOzQwj4fSE&feature=related

“Resistance is futile……you will be assimilated”

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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. George Carlin on why baseball is the true religion..
Because the object of the game is to be Safe, at Home..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om_yq4L3M_I
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. The religion of sports
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think you seriously downplay the physicality of soccer.
First, you can tackle in soccer. It just looks different. Yes, it is about the ball (I'll give you that) but there very often is still serious impact to the player.
Second, it is a very physical sport with a lot of impact to the player.

I also think that American football is all about protecting the ball.

Aussie rules football is just frickin crazy. It's American football without all the rules and no padding.

Otherwise, an interesting read.
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ironbark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks. Way to entirely miss the point Goblin ;-) n/t
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Oh, sure, so I take the chance to not fight about religion with you
and I get slammed. Nice ;)
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ironbark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Hey......It was a fair tackle.

"slammed"!!!!????..........I didn't even touch him umpire!

Oh.....let go of your ankle and get up off the ground Goblinmonger.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. Interesting thought, but at the end of the day...
the anaalogy breaks down to the Argument from Authority. Regardless of the sport, the "winner" is the strongest team, or authority.

Saying religion is like football is actually quite a good analogy, as it exposes its weakness, the Argument from authority.
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ironbark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. When you are invited to play 'football' what determines your expectations?
Geography? Conditioning? Prior experience?
Authority?
Whose?

Who/what tells you what football is and how it should be played?

"Regardless of the sport, the "winner" is the strongest team, or authority."

Within a specific code, yes, perhaps "strongest team", perhaps the most skilled.

But inter code? When you turn up responding to the invitation to play football in your Grid Iron gear and I'm there in my white shorts and footy jumper...and hell...the guy designated to bring the ball has done so and it's a freaking round ball....

What Authority can we apeal to...to work out what football is or how it should be played?
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I think all of that is irrelevant.
If the ball (round or oval) is religion, then regardless of how or why or from where the teams come from, they are going to have a contest to see who can move the ball (religion) into their opponents net, goal, or whatever. The team that does this the most, wins, period.
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ironbark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Without exploring the questions we may never know how relevant they are.
"If the ball (round or oval) is religion"

No...read the OP. Football is religion...The Codes, Soccer/Grid Iron/Aussie Rules are the faiths...the ball is the ideas/issues that get kicked arround.

I kicked some question/balls your way...you leave all those question balls on the ground and call them "irrelevant"....ok....perhaps someone else will pick them up and play, perhaps not.

I Don't think I need to take my idea/ball and go home yet...I'll wait and see if anyone else can kick a straight relevant answer to a straight relevant question ;-)
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Hmmm, okay
maybe I need to reread the op again.
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NoNothing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
9. A silly analogy
But accepting it on its own terms, I don't think tackling equates to "character attacks," but rather simple argumentative "take downs." After all, tackles that are gratuitous to the larger goal of advancing the ball down field, or highly likely to result in player injury, are also prohibited. Tackles that are gratuitously hard or unsportsmanlike are also heavily penalized.

You focus on tackling people unrelated to the ball, but in fact this is in most cases *also* prohibited. What *is* allowed for non-ball carriers is *blocking*, using your body and arms (but not hands) to prevent opposing players from impeding your advancement of the ball. This is in your analogy, I would think, the same as pre-emptively refuting the other team's attempts to hijack your issue and advance it in the wrong direction.

The main difference between American football and soccer, IMO, is that American football concentrates its actions into smaller, highly complex and carefully orchestrated set-piece conflicts. The result is a far less dynamic game, but one that is far more strategic.

===

People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society.

Vince Lombardi
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ironbark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Perhaps. Time will tell.


“I don't think tackling equates to "character attacks," but rather simple argumentative "take downs."

I thought that was not only made clear in the OP but the core and crux of the true faith-
“The nature of the tackle and the rules governing it are vital tenants of the faith…an opponent may be tackled on the issue or on the stupidity of the pov expressed but if your tackle does not articulate precisely >why< the others pov is stupid you’re the one wearing egg. In like manner push and shove ad hom is acceptable play but ‘high tackle falsification’ or ‘around the neck fabrication’ of an opponents pov is seen as dirty play. ‘Putting the boot in’ is to kick an opponent with tackle attack on character and integrity…for such filthy play your just sent off. In the case of all tackles it must be clear that the opponent was actually in possession of the issue/ball you are attacking him over. If you accuse the opponent of having held an issue or expressed a pov and cannot/will not substantiate and prove the validity of your tackle…you are committing a foul, you’re weak as piss, and will not only be sent off by the Umpire but Booed off by the crowd. The requirement to >substantiate< the validity of an accusatory tackle establishes the precedent of scientific principle fused with football faith.”

“People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society.”

Agreed and pertinent. If the problems are those of a “modern society” many/most will be playing by the shared expectations/rules of the prevailing code.

If the problems are those of a planet, part modern part third world, then the “People who work together” to win will need to work out some cross cultural differences in the expectations/rules of the differing codes.

That’s what the silly analogy is about…….not comparing football codes…though no doubt that will happen.
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NoNothing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Well it reads as though that section pertains to "Aussie" football
The OP states "In Grid Iron religion the ball/issue might be miles away but some unsuspecting soul is still getting poleaxed into the ground, without cause,reason or justification."

But that is not correct, which undermines the analogy.
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ironbark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. The OP also states that in Grid Iron "someone removes your armour with their teeth"

"But that is not correct, which undermines the analogy," and because of such blatant inacuracies we should deem the analogy silly, nay, stupid,"someone removes your armour with their teeth".....sheesh, what an maroon...I wonder how we could tackle such stupidity. I say poleaxe the idiot.


;-)

(It is often observed in the stand up circut that Americans don't do 'irony' which makes the Oz gig tricky...because in Oz they don't do anything else ;-)
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. Aussie Rules is just Rugby with slightly different rules for the sake of it
There's a desire to make a game look original, when it's really copying something codified in Britain years before. :evilgrin:

(Next argument: rugby is just a standardisation of the informal village v. village ball games that existed for a thousand years or more).

Extend the argument to religion discussion if you have to.
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ironbark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Blasphemy.


But at least demonstrative of how quickly people will line up to defend their religion/code and/or slander or declare others heretic and how easily religious wars thereby arise ;-)

Gentle reminder to all….the OP (despite advertising and appearances) is not actually about who has the best/true football/religion……

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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. Then I'm a Catholic:
The (Mega) Church:



The current Pope:



My parish:



Mass:



Exorcism:



Dirty heretic Protestants:

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