Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Quote of the Day (re: Religion and Slavery)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU
 
LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 11:39 PM
Original message
Quote of the Day (re: Religion and Slavery)
Frederick Douglass told in his Narrative how his condition as a slave became worse when his master underwent a religious conversion that allowed him to justify slavery as the punishment of the children of Ham. Mark Twain described his mother as a genuinely good person, whose soft heart pitied even Satan, but who had no doubt about the legitimacy of slavery, because in years of living in antebellum Missouri she had never heard any sermon opposing slavery, but only countless sermons preaching that slavery was God's will. With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion.


-- Steven Weinberg (winner of the 1979 Nobel Prize in Physics)


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
There ain't slaves in Yahweh-Jesus heaven.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. One of the best quotes on the subject I've ever read. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlecBGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. its catchy, but wrong
the bolded part simply isnt true. See post 14.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. Recd. Great quote; that's a keeper. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
4. Here's a relevant Frederick Douglass speech from 1846. It is worth reading for several reasons
Edited on Thu Dec-02-10 11:01 AM by struggle4progress
First, because it lays out the actual views of Douglass, on the topic of the relation between religion and slavery, rather than presenting an ideologically-motivated one-sentence misrepresentation of his views. Second, because Douglass, as a first class activist and superb debater and master of rhetoric, is almost always fresh and interesting. Third, because it sheds some historical light on conflicting uses of the church in a particularly important political struggle

American Slavery, American Religion, and the Free Church of Scotland: An Address Delivered in London, England, on May 22, 1846

... God has given him an intellect — the slave holder declares it shall not be cultivated ... This is American slavery — no marriage — no education — the light of the Gospel shut out from the dark mind of the bondman — and he forbidden by law to learn to read. If a mother shall teach her children to read, the law in Louisiana proclaims that she may be hanged by the neck ...

... We want them to know that a knowledge of their whippings, their scourgings, their brandings, their chainings, is not confined to their plantations, but that some negro of theirs has broken loose from his chains (loud applause) — has burst through the dark incrustation of slavery, and is now exposing their deeds of deep damnation to the gaze of the Christian people of England ... Why, I believe if a man should brand his horse in this country,—burn the initials of his name into any of his cattle, and publish the ferocious deed here, — that the united execrations of Christians in Britain would descend upon him. (Cheers.) Yet, in the United States, human beings are thus branded ...

... The very state from which the Minister from our Courts to yours comes is one of these states (cries of "Hear") — Maryland where men, women, and children are reared for the market just as horses, sheep, and swine are raised for the market. Slave-rearing is there looked upon as a legitimate trade, the law sanctions it, public opinion upholds it, the church does not condemn it ...

... She formed her resolution; and just as those who were about to take her, were going to put hands upon her, to drag her back, she leaped over the balustrades of the bridge, and down she went to rise no more. (Great sensation.) She chose death, rather than to go back into the hands of those Christian slave holders from whom she had escaped ...

... What have we in America? Why we have slavery made part of the religion of the land. Yes, the pulpit there stands up as the great defender of this cursed institution, as it is called. Ministers of religion come forward, and torture the hallowed pages of inspired wisdom to sanction the bloody deed (Loud cries of "Shame!") They stand forth as the foremost, the strongest defenders of this "institution." As a proof of this, I need not do more than state the general fact, that slavery has existed under the droppings of the sanctuary of the south, for the last 200 years, and there has not been any war between the religion and the slavery of the south ... Instead of preaching the Gospel against this tyranny, rebuke, and wrong, ministers of religion have sought, by all and every means, to throw in the background whatever in the Bible could be construed into opposition to slavery, and to bring forward that which they could torture into its support. (Cries of "Shame!") This I conceive to be the darkest feature of slavery, and the most difficult to attack, because it is identified with religion, and exposes those who denounce it to the charge of infidelity ...

... But you will ask me, can these things be possible in a land professing Christianity? Yes, they are so; and this is not the worst. No, a darker feature is yet to be presented than the mere existence of these facts. I have to inform you that the religion of the southern states, at this time, is the great supporter, the greater sanctioner of the bloody atrocities to which I have referred. (Deep sensation). While America is printmg tracts and Bibles; sending missionaries abroad to convert the heathen; expending her money in various ways for the promotion of the Gospel in foreign lands, the slave not only lies forgotten—uncared for, but is trampled under foot by the very churches of the land. What have we in America? Why we have slavery made part of the religion of the land. Yes, the pulpit there stands up as the great defender of this cursed institution, as it is called. Ministers of religion come forward, and torture the hallowed pages of inspired wisdom to sanction the bloody deed (Loud cries of "Shame!") They stand forth as the foremost, the strongest defenders of this "institution." As a proof of this, I need not do more than state the general fact, that slavery has existed under the droppings of the sanctuary of the south, for the last 200 years, and there has not been any war between the religion and the slavery of the south.

Whips, chains, gags, and thumb-screws have all lain under the droppings of the sanctuary, and instead of rusting from off the limbs of the bondman, these droppings have served to preserve them in all their strength. Instead of preaching the Gospel against this tyranny, rebuke, and wrong, ministers of religion have sought, by all and every means, to throw in the background whatever in the Bible could be construed into opposition to slavery, and to bring forward that which they could torture into its support. (Cries of "Shame!") This I conceive to be the darkest feature of slavery, and the most difficult to attack, because it is identified with religion, and exposes those who denounce it to the charge of infidelity. Yes, those with whom I have been labouring, namely, the old organization Anti-Slavery Society of America, have been again and again stigmatized as infidels, and for what reason? Why, solely in consequence of the faithfulness of their attacks upon the slaveholding religion of the southern states, and the northern religion that sympathizes with it. (Hear, hear.)

I have found it difficult to speak on this matter without persons coming forward and saying, "Douglass, are you not afraid of injuring the cause of Christ? You do not desire to do so, we know; but are you not undermining religion?" This has been said to me again and again, even since I came to this country, but I cannot be induced to leave off these exposures. (Loud cheers.)

I love the religion of our blessed Saviour, I love that religion that comes from above, in the "wisdom of God, which is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. "'a I love that religion that sends its votaries to bind up the wounds of him that has fallen among thieves. I love that religion that makes it the duty of its disciples to visit the fatherless and widow in their affliction. I love that religion that is based upon the glorious principle, of love to God and love to man (cheers); which makes its followers do unto others as they themselves would be done by. If you demand liberty to yourself, it says, grant it to your neighbours. If you claim a right to think for yourselves, it says, allow your neighbours the same right. If you claim to act for yourselves, it says, allow your neighbours the same right. It is because I love this religion that I hate the slave-holding, the woman-whipping, the mind-darkening, the soul-destroying religion that exists in the southern states of America. (Immense cheering.) It is because I regard the one as good, and pure, and holy, that I cannot but regard the other as bad, corrupt, and wicked. Loving the one I must hate the other, holding to the one I must reject the other, and I, therefore, proclaim myself an infidel to the slave-holding religion of America. (Reiterated cheers.)

Why, as I said in another place, to a smaller audience the other day, in answer to the question, "Mr. Douglass, are there not Methodist churches, Baptist churches, Congregational churches, Episcopal churches, Roman Catholic churches, Presbyterian churches in the United States, and in the southern states of America, and do they not have revivals of religion, accessions to their ranks from day to day, and will you tell me that these men are not followers of the meek and lowly Saviour?" Most unhesitatingly I do. Revivals in religion, and revivals in the slave trade, go hand in hand together. (Cheers.) The church and the slave prison stand next to each other; the groans and cries of the heartbroken slave are often drowned in the pious devotions of his religious master. (Hear, hear.) The church-going bell and the auctioneer's bell chime in with each other; the pulpit and the auctioneer's block stand in the same neighbourhood; while the blood-stained gold goes to support the pulpit, the pulpit covers the infernal business with the garb of Christianity. We have men sold to build churches, women sold to support missionaries, and babies sold to buy Bibles and communion services for the churches. (Loud cheers.)

A Voice.—It is not true.

Mr. DOUGLASS.—Not true! is it not? (Immense cheers.) Hear the following advertisement:—"Field Negroes, by Thomas Gadsden." I read now from The American Churches, the Bulwarks of American Slavery; by an American, or by J. G. Birney. This has been before the public in this country and the United States for the last six years; not a fact nor a statement in it has been called in question. (Cheers.) The following is taken from the Charleston Courier of Feb. 12, 1835:—"Field Negroes, by Thomas Gadsden. On Tuesday, the 17th inst., will be sold at the north of the Exchange, at 10 o'clock, a prime gang of ten negroes, accustomed to the culture of cotton and provisions, belonging to the Independent Church, in Christ Church parish." (Loud cheers.) I could read other testimony on this point, but is it necessary? (Cries of "No," and "One more.") ...

... There are different ways by which you may operate against slavery. First let me state how it is upheld; it is upheld by public opinion. How is public opinion maintained? Mainly by the press and by the pulpit. How are we to get these committed on the side of freedom? How are we to change our pro-slavery pulpit into an anti-slavery one, our pro-slavery literature to anti-slavery literature, our pro-slavery press into an anti-slavery press?

I can only point British abolitionists to the mode they adopted in their own country. Here, happily for you, the pulpit was already on your side to a considerable extent, at least the Dissenting pulpit. (Cheers.) The Wesleyans have retained a sufficiency of the spirit of their founder, John Wesley, to declare with him, that slavery is the sum of all villainies. (Cheers.) You had but to proclaim the sin of slavery in the people's ears, and they rallied around your standard on behalf of emancipation. Not so in our country. They have taken the strongest ground against us, but I am in duty bound to say that in the northern states they are fast getting into your own way. I will, however, speak of this under another head. We have had the pulpit against us. I am not here to represent one class of abolitionists, particularly, in the United States, but the cause of the slave, and the friends of the slave, at large. However, I am more interested in the religious aspect of this question than in its political aspect.

There are two classes of abolitionists in the United States; one takes the ground that slavery is the creature of the law, that it must, therefore, be proceeded against as such; and they have formed themselves into what is called, "The liberty party." There is another class—that with which I am particularly associated, and they take the ground that our energies should be devoted to the purifying of the moral sentiment of the country, by directing its energies to the purification of the church, and the exclusion of slave holders from communion with it. (Loud cheers.) We have proceeded at once to expose the inconsistency of retaining men-stealers as members of the Church of Christ ...

http://www.yale.edu/glc/archive/1077.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Clarification indeed.
Revivals in religion, and revivals in the slave trade, go hand in hand together. The church and the slave prison stand next to each other; the groans and cries of the heartbroken slave are often drowned in the pious devotions of his religious master. The church-going bell and the auctioneer's bell chime in with each other; the pulpit and the auctioneer's block stand in the same neighbourhood; while the blood-stained gold goes to support the pulpit, the pulpit covers the infernal business with the garb of Christianity. We have men sold to build churches, women sold to support missionaries, and babies sold to buy Bibles and communion services for the churches.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I will urge people to read Douglass speech in its entirety, as being much more illuminating
than ideologically-motivated excerpts. Douglass was a tireless activist, talented political analyst, and an astonishingly brilliant rhetorician, and brief excerpts (such as yours) often do not begin to expose the depth and breadth of his thought
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. But they can serve to summarize his position on certain matters.
We do this for great orators of every age. Summarization, especially accurate summarization, is not something to fear or to sneer at.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. A fuller quote from the Appendix of Diouglass's Narrative:
... I find, since reading over the foregoing Narrative that I have, in several instances, spoken in such a tone and manner, respecting religion, as may possibly lead those unacquainted with my religious views to suppose me an opponent of all religion. To remove the liability of such misapprehension, I deem it proper to append the following brief explanation. What I have said respecting and against religion, I mean strictly to apply to the slaveholding religion of this land, and with no possible reference to Christianity proper; for, between the Christianity of this land, and the Christianity of Christ, I recognize the widest possible difference -- so wide, that to receive the one as good, pure, and holy, is of necessity to reject the other as bad, corrupt, and wicked. To be the friend of the one, is of necessity to be the enemy of the other. I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ: I therefore hate the corrupt, slaveholding, women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial and hypocritical Christianity of this land. Indeed, I can see no reason, but the most deceitful one, for calling the religion of this land Christianity. I look upon it as the climax of all misnomers, the boldest of all frauds, and the grossest of all libels. Never was there a clearer case of "stealing the livery of the court of heaven to serve the devil in." I am filled with unutterable loathing when I contemplate the religious pomp and show, together with the horrible inconsistencies, which every where surround me. We have men-stealers for ministers, women-whippers for missionaries, and cradle-plunderers for church members. The man who wields the blood-clotted cowskin during the week fills the pulpit on Sunday, and claims to be a minister of the meek and lowly Jesus. The man who robs me of my earnings at the end of each week meets me as a class-leader on Sunday morning, to show me the way of life, and the path of salvation. He who sells my sister, for purposes of prostitution, stands forth as the pious advocate of purity. He who proclaims it a religious duty to read the Bible denies me the right of learning to read the name of the God who made me. He who is the religious advocate of marriage robs whole millions of its sacred influence, and leaves them to the ravages of wholesale pollution. The warm defender of the sacredness of the family relation is the same that scatters whole families,--sundering husbands and wives, parents and children, sisters and brothers,--the hut vacant, and the hearth desolate. We see the thief preaching against theft, and the adulterer against adultery. We have men sold to build churches, women sold to support the gospel, and babes sold to purchase Bibles for the poor heathen! all for the glory of God and the good of souls! The slave auctioneer's bell and the church-going bell chime in with each other, and the bitter cries of the heart-broken slave are drowned in the religious shouts of his pious master. Revivals of religion and revivals in the slave-trade go hand in hand together ...

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/lhbcb:@field%28DOCID+@lit%28lhbcb25385div17%29%29
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-10 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Where'd you get your hard hat?
That's some dedicated quote mining.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Mr. Douglass was not one to say things lightly or flippantly.
The sentence bolded in the OP, even when taken "out of context" and completely by itself, is unequivocally NOT a misrepresentation of what Douglass was trying to say. Your expanded version only serves to make that clear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. If you read the Douglass speech in its entirety, it is clear that Douglass is indeed
persuaded that religion has power to sway people, but not only in the one direction indicated in the OP: moreover, Douglass, in the speech I linked, takes a view somehow opposite of that in the OP -- namely, Douglass asserts that the institution of slavery has corrupted the church in slave-holding regions, and that the church has been induced by slave-holders there to support slavery, rather than the church originally inducing people to become slaveholders

For this reason, Douglass, in the speech, discusses at some length his view of the anti-slavery struggle as a struggle with a religious component, sometimes requiring a political struggle within the church

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I think you apply more connotation to the OP than is actually there.
Douglass WAS speaking about the power of religion to spread corruption, in the form of slavery and other awful things, to people who are otherwise good. I think we both agree on this. So what is it about the quote in the OP that you think misrepresents this position of Douglass'? Is it actually something from the OP, or is it something you're reading into the OP due to an over-reaction on your own part?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Just the typical knee-jerk defense. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlecBGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. he is one of the people who pops to my mind
when asked the question "if you could have lunch with any person living or dead, who would it be?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Reality is usually more complicated than a bumper sticker. - n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YankeyMCC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. To me it's a bit larger than just religion
for good people to do evil they need to be convinced that they are right, that they know the truth of good and evil. And convinced that it is their duty to punish, convert and eliminate if necessary anything and anyone that violates those rules.

That doesn't necessarily have to come from religion it's just that's the likely source of the so call 'truth'.

Of course it's more than that too, it's just part of being human, put people in certain situations and they'll do evil.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlecBGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. halfway true
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil;" Yup, Im with you so far.

"...but for good people to do evil — that takes religion." ...or greed, lust, ambition, a desire for revenge, hatred, addiction, etc.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. That depends on your definition of evil.
Is evil simply something that is not good? Is there a spectrum of gray in there somewhere that includes the adjective "bad"?

Would any of the things that you describe, like greed and so on, lead an entire nation of people to commit genocide? (I think that's something we can both agree is "evil".)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlecBGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. ahhh....good point
I initially read it as "person." The use of "people" does change things a bit.

"Is evil simply something that is not good? Is there a spectrum of gray in there somewhere that includes the adjective "bad"?

To answer your question, yes, evil is something that is not good (please dont ask me to define good right now :P ) . The issue of black/white vs. shades of gray is still up in the air, though I will say that for most of my life (including these days) I am more the latter. There are things I am becoming less flexible on but overall I suspect I wont ever become a George W Bush style "with-us-or-against-us" black-or-white person.

"Would any of the things that you describe, like greed and so on, lead an entire nation of people to commit genocide? (I think that's something we can both agree is "evil".)"

Yes its evil and I believe yes, it (greed) has led to genocide. Although its hard to pin SOLELY on greed, I think America's attack on Iraq was driven in large part by a desire to control their oil and to make a buck. Certainly much more so than a desire to satisfy religious belief.

Another example of non-religious genocide would be Rwanda. If I understand it correctly, the ethnic cleansing was driven by racism & oppression.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. We don't want this devolve into a semantic debate,
so don't worry, I won't ask you to define "good".

You make some interesting points, but here's a question for you: How does the invasion of Iraq qualify as genocide? Unjust war, certainly, but genocide?

Regardless of Iraq, Rwanda certainly serves as a counterexample to the idea that religion is solely responsible for making people do evil things. But then you have to ask yourself this question: Were the hateful people responsible for the genocide in Rwanda good people? After all, the full quote does say that religion makes GOOD people do evil things.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlecBGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. it isnt genocide per se
that is, the Iraq war isnt aimed at exterminating a race of people. But I think the effects of the war are on par with genocide. I have heard estimates of 100,000 to 1 million dead Iraqis. Any way you slice it, thats not good :(

"Were the hateful people responsible for the genocide in Rwanda good people?"

Hard to say because I dont know the full story, but if the killers were large numbers of "ordinary" Rwandans, your average Joe Sixpacks, then I would classify them as "good". As you say, lets not dive into semantics, but I would call most average people "good."

We are all capable of doing evil things. I think we dont become evil until we make a habit of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. And that is where you and I differ.
Maybe it's just the ingrained fundamentalist SoBap coming back from my childhood ("There is no one righteous"), but I really don't believe in the inherent "good"ness of humanity. I do think that people can be good, but I don't think that your average Joe Sixpack qualifies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-10 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's a good quote, but I really don't buy it.
First of all, because I don't buy that people are "good" or "evil". Every single one of us has the possibility of being good or evil, and most of us are both, depending on the situation. Very few people have the strength to resist evil, when put in a situation where we are compelled into evil actions, especially if they have an authoritarian personality.

And it's not just religion...it can happen in a non religious mob (tribal, ethnic, etc). Don't get me wrong...religious is just about the worst thing ever for justification of evil actions and it's a really good way to avoid personal responsability. But it's still not the not only way to make people do evil things.

Still, for a simplistic, pithy quote, I quite like it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC