'Secret Ingredient' in Religion Makes People Happier

[HuckleB]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101207091802.htm

"While the positive correlation between religiosity and life satisfaction has long been known, a new study in the December issue of the American Sociological Review reveals religion's "secret ingredient" that makes people happier.

"Our study offers compelling evidence that it is the social aspects of religion rather than theology or spirituality that leads to life satisfaction," said Chaeyoon Lim, an assistant professor of sociology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, who led the study. "In particular, we find that friendships built in religious congregations are the secret ingredient in religion that makes people happier."

...

According to the study, 33 percent of people who attend religious services every week and have three to five close friends in their congregation report that they are "extremely satisfied" with their lives. "Extremely satisfied" is defined as a 10 on a scale ranging from 1 to 10.

In comparison, only 19 percent of people who attend religious services weekly, but who have no close friends in their congregation report that they are extremely satisfied. On the other hand, 23 percent of people who attend religious services only several times a year, but who have three to five close friends in their congregation are extremely satisfied with their lives. Finally, 19 percent of people who never attend religious services, and therefore have no friends from congregation, say they are extremely satisfied with their lives.

..."


-----------------------------------------------------------------


Shared by a mildly happy atheist.

:toast:

[Skidmore]

1. Among cows, sheep, deer and other ruminents, it is known

as the herd mentality. No effort required because the group makes choices for you.

[Warpy]

10. Not that so much, but the safety in numbers

since a predator is just as likely to go after somebody else is also part of it.

However, the benefits of community have been well known for a long time. Churches are the prime places to find that community and some churches are liberal enough that they don't require you to believe a word of it, only to respect the people who do.

[immoderate]

67. Among primates, marshalling forces, distributing responsibilities, sharing support....

Requiring more effort shortens lives. Labor need not be duplicated.

Howya gonna go? :)

--imm

[Brickbat]

2. I believe that. Feeling like you belong to a larger group, and working together with that group is

generally an indicator of happiness. I just don't see why there has to be a middleman.

[Donnachaidh]

3. my SIL's church was social --

Those folks went out of their way to dig up dirt on each other to gossip and fingerpoint about. We were dragged to one of their *social events* and I felt like a 14 year old virgin at a vampire stag party.

Those folks were pure-D EVIL.

[HuckleB]

25. That sounds more anti-social than social to me.

But what do I know?

[Subdivisions]

4. I was about to jump on this because religion irritates the hell out of me...

But I think they may be on to something here. I can see how social interaction would make going to church fun. I'm not religious, but I have gone to church and it was the social aspect of it that I enjoyed.

[RandomThoughts]

5. When I was issolated after not agreeing to something I thought was wrong.

I found a society of spiritual friends that would be nice, so it is more then that, but some might not see it the same.


Here is the thing I could be wrong, I don't think people have to think like I do, nor do I hold fault to those that think different, nor do I think I am better by how I think.

I do know I am owed beer and travel money and many experiences.

But that does not make me better or worse either.


I do believe each will figure it out eventually, maybe I will also :)

[PassingFair]

63. "I don't think people have to think like I do"

You do not have to worry about this,
NO ONE thinks like you do!

:P

[Speck Tater]

6. So the way for atheists to combat religion is to have socially-oriented atheist organizations.

Organizations that are warm and welcoming to anyone and everyone instead of the cold and arrogant vibe most atheist groups give off. Organizations that are all about socializing, and community cohesion, and throwing neighborhood concerts in the park and square dances and bingo and bake sales, etc., etc., with the atheism part very much in the background.

Of course that will never happen because devout atheists will always want to thrust atheism to the foreground and belittle the social aspect of any such organization. That's why churches will always have the upper hand as community social centers.

[backscatter712]

11. In my area, there's Skeptics In The Pub.

They're not everywhere, but they're in a lot of places.

http://www.skepticsinthepub.net/

Don't go to church, go to a bar! :evilgrin:

[HuckleB]

15. Skeptics in the Pub seems to be growing quite fast.

It's fantastic, IMO. I have a group of wonderful friends, but few of them want to talk about science. Skeptics in the Pub may be a great outlet for people like me.

[enlightenment]

18. Could you broaden that brush a little more?

I think you missed a few.

:eyes:

[Speck Tater]

28. Over-generalization stimulates discussion. ;-)

Besides, even though its not universally true (of course) you know there's more than just a tiny germ of truth in that characterization.

[spooky3]

53. so you wouldn't object if someone had posted exactly the same thing, except

if they substituted "churches" for "atheist orgs.", etc.?

I suspect a lot of people here would have found that very offensive - and that you had no empirical evidence to justify it.

[Speck Tater]

54. You're right. I wouldn't object.

I'm an agnostic.

I do NOT believe that God exists,

AND

I do NOT believe that God does NOT exist.

I DO believe that the issues cannot be settled this side of the (hypothetical) hereafter, but I do not object to others taking whatever stand they prefer to take. Since the issue is undecidable, I am indifferent it.

Besides which, I do think my statement IS valid for church organizations. They DO, in fact, put religion in foreground, so why on earth would I object to a true statement?

So who, I ask you, would be offended by these statements:

"Churches put religion in the foreground."
"Atheist organizations put atheism in the foreground."
"Bowling alleys put bowling in the foreground."
"DU puts politics in the foreground."

They are all true, and none of them should be offensive to anyone. If you are offended by any of them, then YOU have a problem.

[Pacifist Patriot]

50. Try a humanist group.

We love our non-theism in a warm and fuzzy way. :-)

My UU congregation has quite a few atheists / humanists and the humanist group I belong to has great social interaction.

It is possible to be atheist and warm and intellectual and welcoming and rational. Not always easy, but definitely possible.

[spooky3]

52. so you have done a systematic, controlled study of ALL of these organizations?

You are tarring people and organizations with a very broad brush.

[Speck Tater]

55. Define "controlled" study?

What kind of control group did you have in mind?
Which independent variables would be controlled and which would be varied?

Besides, I think my generalizations are pretty much tautological. Churches are about religion, atheist organizations are about atheism, bowling alleys are about bowling, political parties are about politics. What did I say that is not trivially self-evident? The "belittle" part? Well, I've been in churches and heard them belittle the non-believers. I been with atheists and heard them belittle the church-goers. I've been in bowling alleys and heard them belittle non-bowlers. I been in DU and heard them belittle the politically uninterested. So I think that generalization is pretty self-evident as well.

[immoderate]

68. Your preconceptions are belied by reality.

I belong to several atheist groups, that are social, warm and welcoming, and also produce community events that are mostly educational, and never mention atheism. Concerts are a good idea. We are hoping to get endowments for a community center.

Saying devout atheist cheapens the language.

--imm

[xchrom]

7. i imagine there are lots of church goers and churches that wouldn't have a

problem with that secret.

america used to be a more 'social' place than it is now.

maybe we were happier then?

[blondeatlast]

33. I think we were. I fondly remember these things called "downtowns." My mom always insisted

we dress up just a bit to go to them.

It would be so nice to have those again--it was really pleasant.

[xchrom]

36. me too.

and mom always ran into someone she knew from her society clubs and or church that she belonged too.

and we always did one night of dinner at the church it seemed like.

it was nice -- but i wasn't raised in a fundie situation either -- there were very few of those back in the day.

[AlecBGreen]

59. I think so xchrom

america used to be a more 'social' place than it is now.

maybe we were happier then?

To me it seems we Americans are far more interested in DOING and ACCOMPLISHING than we are forming and strengthening relationships. I know I fall into that category. Its a shame because IMO the best part of life is sharing our experiences & feelings with others. There is a saying that sums it up for me: "We have sold our souls too cheaply." We have exchanged the best things in life for gaudy goods and cheap thrills.

[Edweird]

8. "I used to get high on drugs, now I get high on god."

If it works for you, then more power to you. I am not one of them.

[hobbit709]

12. "Ernie always wanted to see God"

"One day he did and God told him to stop bothering Him"

From The Child's Garden Of Grass.

[Edweird]

17. That made me laugh out loud.

I'm at the laundromat.

[backscatter712]

13. Sounds like a lot of AA people.

They're traded one addiction for another. Now they're addicted to Jesus, and not in a good way...

[pipi_k]

20. To be fair...

AA isn't just about God.

It's about a Higher Power that some choose to call "God".


Yes, I know people who have traded one addiction for another...but I also know people who have traded an addiction (to alcohol) for a dependence (on a Higher Power). Dependence on a Higher Power usually isn't as scary or dangerous as an addiction to God or Jesus...

[Edweird]

23. It's the same thing.

As an atheist, it isn't that I don't believe in "god", but believe in allah or the flying spaghetti monster. I don't believe that there is ANY 'higher power". It's a thinly veiled metaphor and nothing more.

[pipi_k]

29. Not the same thing at all

I don't believe in God, yet when I was active in a 12 Step group I was able to connect to a "power" greater than myself.

Call it the Univeral Force...Mother Nature...Love...Truth...whatever.

All we need to know is that WE do not control the world or the universe.

Pray all you want, but what will happen will happen. Don't pray and the results are the same.


It's all about letting go of control and trusting that things will work out exactly the way they're supposed to.

It's amazing how calming that attitude can be.

[raccoon]

44. Great post. nt

[cleanhippie]

57. It's all about letting go of control and trusting that things will work out exactly the way they're

But WE control our own destiny with our choices. Nothing is predetermined.

[PassingFair]

64. "Letting go of control and trusting that things will work out".

Worst. Advice. Ever.

We all need to be brave everyday and
do what we can to work towards survival
and justice.

"Putting it in God's hands" does NOT cut it with the
realities of survival.

[ZombieHorde]

40. What is a higher power? nt

[cleanhippie]

56. "Dependence on a Higher Power usually isn't as scary or dangerous as an addiction to God or Jesus...

Well, that certainly is debatable and not a settled matter.

[Edweird]

21. A guy I work with was giving me the hard sell about going to church with him.

It was almost like he was in a state of mania while describing how great it was. I was carpooling with him at the time so that made things extra tricky and uncomfortable. I finally had to level with him and explain that I was not now, nor would I ever be, interested. He still kept trying after that. I've had bona-fide stalkers that weren't as persistent as this guy.

I went to rehab many many years ago, so I'm familiar with the whole 'higher power' thing.

[pipi_k]

38. I've had much the same experience

with friends I've known for over 20 years.

I can't count the number of times they've tried to convert me. A few times I swear they even mentioned exorcism (to rid me of the evil of panic disorder). I think they finally gave up, although from time to time they still try to sneak that shit in.

But really, it's not the fault of the program or the fact that it uses a Higher Power...which I'm sure you must know anyway...it's the people who just can't survive without feeling a need to substitute one addiction for another, and then trying to force it down the throats of the rest of us...

[Edweird]

45. Oh man, an exorcism. That's awesome! :)

I could see having a little fun with that.

I'm totally live and-let-live when it comes to religion (and most everything as long as it ends where I begin). I went to rehab many years ago and resented the fact that I had to pretend to believe in a 'higher power' to get out. For me, and I'm speaking solely for myself and about my own specific atheism, it really ruined the rehab experience for me. Of course, the fact that I wasn't really 'addicted' to anything - I was just completely out of control and needed to settle down some. (all I really needed was Bob Newhart http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1g3ENYxg9k ) Anyway - my experience was that the 'higher power' was simply a place holder for god. My own brand of atheism precludes the existence of any 'divine intelligence' no matter what you call it. I don't believe in a higher power.
I'm not knocking 12 step programs - I know they have saved people's lives.
I'm also not dirting on anyone's belief or faith - I'm simply attempting to explain where I fit in.

[ZombieHorde]

41. How did they define, "higher power?"

[hobbit709]

9. Then why are so many of these people so unhappy with everyone else?

[pitohui]

14. these bogus studies are just making shit up

i guess they figure that we've never met any religious people and don't know what frightened, bitter, afraid-to-think-for-themselves little weasels that they really are

if propaganda doesn't meet w. your observations over years and decades of experience, it's ok to realize that the propaganda is probably what's wrong -- not your lying eyes :-)

yes some people are not happy, cannot be happy, without the herd to tell them that they're happy -- of course, they're not happy anyway, but since they don't know what happy is, they can't tell the difference -- the herd has declared them happy so they. is. happy!

if you need four friends to tell you you're happy you don't HAVE a soul, you're an empty bucket waiting to be filled

there are indeed many buckets out there, but i learned a long time ago that a large minority of people DON'T have souls, there's just nothing there on the inside

[pipi_k]

16. another one of those sticky "cause and effect" things...

Do social connections make people happy, or do happy people naturally tend to seek out social connections?

Speaking for myself, I don't feel happier because of social connections. In fact, I feel a good deal of pressure. I feel more satisfied with my life when I have books to read, music to listen to, crafts to do, and a few friends who understand that there are times when I need to back off a bit until I feel comfortable with socializing again, even if it's only by email.

[HuckleB]

19. Balance is always needed.

In addition, anecdotes don't negate a possible relation for the majority of people. I know I need time to myself, but I know that I also need to ensure that I have social situations on the docket. Of course, that really doesn't mean a thing in relation to a study of a group of people. I may be an outlier.

[pipi_k]

24. I agree about balance...

but really the point of my post was that this is yet another one of those things where people draw a conclusion that may not be true, which is that many social contacts makes for more satisfaction and happiness.

I'm merely asking whether the correlation between personal happiness/satisfaction could be that people who are already happy/satisfied are more prone to seeking out the company of others...not that having those contacts would be the reason for satisfaction.

[HuckleB]

26. That's certainly a possibility.

However, such caveats can be controlled by a good researcher. In this case, the researcher was looking to see if religious belief itself or social contacts led to greater happiness on average, as reported. This single study indicates that the social aspects were more important, at least for those who attend church.

[pipi_k]

37. One other item that causes me to be skeptical...

where the information came from...

the "Faith Matters" study.


First of all, I do wonder how many church-goers are going to want to admit that they're less than satisfied with their lives...


Second...trusting in this "study" would be like trusting in a study conducted by the Tea Party which claimed that their followers are smarter and happier than Democrats.

Or the KKK claiming that whites are more moral than blacks.

[eShirl]

22. and here I thought it was self-delusion/suspension of disbelief

[Warren DeMontague]

27. It's mayonaisse with a dash of Worcestershire sauce. nt

[HuckleB]

30. That does go with just about everything! -eom-

[Odin2005]

66. And Wasabi!

:)

[HereSince1628]

31. The '3-5 close friends' aspect is interesting to me since

a circle of close friends with 4-6 members can be broken into several 'us' groups.

As most people learn by adolesence, having one close friend is challenging, and it is an exceptional individual who has 5 truly close friends. Perhaps the ability to maintain membership in such a potentially fractious grouping requires 'a propensity toward happiness' as a precursor state and thus is a cause and not an effect.

[HuckleB]

32. I'm not sure I'd compare adolescent friendships to adult friendships.

But maybe I've just been lucky.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ZombieHorde]

42. The point of what? nt

[HuckleB]

43. The point of trying to share and discuss at DU.

[ZombieHorde]

46. But you have shared and people are discussing. I don't see the problem.

Do you dislike the Religion/Theology forum?

[HuckleB]

47. The forum is fine, but I don't see why this thread needed to be moved.

Once a thread is moved, discussion decreases dramatically, as happened in this post. Most of the responses came when this was in GD.

[ZombieHorde]

48. I see. Moving posts seems to sometimes mess with the reply notification in the "My DU" section.

I think this makes people think no one is replying to their replies, which of course, stunts conversation. This has happened to me recently, an OP was moved, and then all of my (1 reply) notifications were gone.

[cleanhippie]

58. Considering that GOALPOSTS get moved in here quite often, having this post moved he is apropos, no?

[Ezlivin]

35. Most churchgoers don't know or care about theology

This was a hard and bitter pill for me to swallow. When I was one of the "faithful" and greatly involved with the church—first as a layperson then later as a pastor—I got to see first-hand the great divide that separates those who really, truly believe/know the theology and those who come for the events and fellowship. It was one of the post-seminary revelations that eventually led to my atheism.

The "secret ingredient" is fabulous. Most of us like to be liked and accepted. As long as you parrot the church's lines, sing along with them and don't challenge any points of belief you can find a very happy, accepting place.

But make no mistake, the offer of fellowship can be withdrawn at any time, making you into an outcast or pariah. It's called excommunication, shunning or breaking fellowship. Regardless of the terminology its effect is to penalize the person who strayed/backslid and cause them to reconsider his/her actions. A few churches make a public spectacle out of this process, heaping even more scorn onto the outcast.

My wife and I got out. I quit my staff position and left the church, never to go back. It was a wonderful personal decision but it also forever separated me from all of the "friends" I once had. One moment you're surrounded by a loving, caring "family" and the next you are on your own. That explains why there are so many atheists still in church; they don't want to put their family through this horrible process. In small communities it's almost a social death sentence.

The real power that churches wield lies not in the exquisitely intricate theology but in the social contracts it supports or voids.

[jeepnstein]

62. How true that is...

We recently had a member of our congregation who left under less than pleasant circumstances. It was a matter of basic doctrine and was not something either side took lightly. It was handled quietly and the church leadership took the high road and refused to speak about what had happened. So now she's without a church family sitting at home with a dying husband. She found it odd that some of us still called to check up on her and even brought meals by from time to time. I told her I had no expectation of her ever wanting to come back to our church but that didn't mean I didn't value her friendship greatly. Hmmmm.. that reminds me, I need to see about running something by there this weekend. Anyway, if I couldn't look her square in the eye and tell her I still cared about her and her family then there would be something seriously wrong with me.

Anyways. Some churches can be more clannish than others. The ones that turn their backs on the World are missing a wonderful thing. And yes there are some congregations that have something seriously wrong with them.

[ZombieHorde]

39. I wish the variable, religion, was clearly defined.

Different people use different definitions for this term, and I have noticed the lack of definition in studies which use religion as a variable.

At least this article offers examples, such as Catholic.

[silverweb]

49. There are always exceptions to the rule.

I'm one of them -- at least asocial if not mildly antisocial when it comes to most things, with religion at or near the top of the list. :D

[Pacifist Patriot]

51. Just revealed, eh ?

I could have told them that eons ago. I have long espoused a non-theist theology of community. Seems to be working so far.

Cheers!

[Igel]

60. So what you're saying is. . .

19% like the theology or spectacle, community counts for little

23% like the friendship from a standardly defined community, theology or spectacle count for little

33% like the overlap of friendship from a standardly defined community + theology/spectacle.

In other words, 56% like the community and 42% like the doctrines, but some require liking both.

Meanwhile, 19% don't care about either: Either to have their friendship from an alternatively defined community or to support such a theology or spectacle.

One wonders idly exactly how statistically significant the 19 vs 23% difference is. No n in evidence (okay, there is an "n" in evidence, otherwise it would be "evidece" ;-)

On the other hand, it's something that's only a "secret" in need of being revealed to those not too involved in a church. A secret lemma is that the mainstream denominations are more social-oriented than non-mainstream denominations (where doctrine is given more importance). I haven't seen that difference quantified, because even for some of the most doctrinally stringent (astringent?) denominations community plays a role. Sometimes a negative role.

[onager]

61. Hmph. I know what "secret ingredient" makes a lot of priests happier.

n/t

[Odin2005]

65. This is why I go to a UU church.