And in another shocker from the Vatican

[skepticscott]

The sanctification of JPII is rolling along like a tsunami. Is there even the tiniest, most microscopic chance that their exhaustive examination of his life will NOT show evidence to justify making him a saint?

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20110113/D9KNL4PO0.html

[somone]

1. There is no filibuster?

[ShockediSay]

2. Whatever they do, it's all false Gospel, IMHO nt

[Siwsan]

3. Calling him a saint doesn't really make him a saint

If there are such things as saints, I would suspect that the human opinion/choice isn't the one that counts.

[merh]

4. The deceased religious person formerly known as St. Christopher

can attest to that - it is just the whim of the church, the political winds of the day.

As they say, he traveled down that road before.

[Ken Burch]

6. That would be the St. Christopher who turned out never to have existed, right?

As I understand it, he's now been replaced with THIS figure:

[merh]

13. Yeah, seems the church determined that Christopher was a myth,

just a legend - they took away his sainthood and replaced his myth with the lovely "footprints in the sand" version.



It looks like JC didn't like it that Chris was doing the heavy lifting.

[Ken Burch]

15. I've always preferred "The Onion"s point/counterpoint treatment of the "footprints"

http://www.theonion.com/articles/it-was-then-that-i-carried-you-vs-bullshit-jesus-t,11542/

[Ken Burch]

22. Does anyone else find it disturbing

That "Christopher" is wearing a polo shirt and NO PANTS in that painting?

[Ken Burch]

5. Well, maybe if they hear about his cokehead/rent boy period

:sarcasm:

(He also sang backing vocals for David Bowie during the "Ziggy Stardust" period, but that wasn't TECHNICALLY against canon law)

[laconicsax]

7. Meh. They'll make anyone a saint.

After all, Sir Thomas More was canonized and that asshole launched a campaign against heretics who dared to read the Bible in English, possibly even ordering the torture and/or execution (by burning of course) of those who did.

Now, if that isn't saintly behavior, I don't know what is!

[madrchsod]

8. gee... who would have thought the church had a pr dept.

what a fucking joke

[northoftheborder]

9. I've known a few people whom.....

......I personally call "saints". They were exemplary people who made their life's work helping, teaching, coaching, mentoring, or nursing others and everybody who knew them, loved them, and would also call them saints. But they had no special medals, no unusual rewards, no halos, no special compensation, other than love and gratitude for all they did.

[onager]

24. Church PR department located here...

The Sacred Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith, or Sacra Congregatio de Propaganda Fide.

In 1982, Pope John Paul George Ringo II re-named it Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples (Congregatio pro Gentium Evangelizatione).

Being a Grumpy Atheist, I suspect the name was changed due to certain unfortunate connotations of the word "propaganda," related to some of the Vatican's good friends in Germany and Italy from 1933-45. (We have to remember, the Vatican is a "sovereign state." And I am the Queen of Bohemia.)

Its mission remains exactly the same, described by the church as "missionary work and related activities."

The building still has the "Propaganda" name chiseled on its facade, or at least it did when I visited in 2008.

If you want to drop in, here's a map. This map was drawn in 1748, but the neighborhood hasn't changed much. Just walk down the Spanish Steps ("K" on the map) and hang a left at the fountain. On the map, the Congregatio is #3:

[Iggo]

10. Isn't there like a 3 miracle rule or something?

Or is that just a Hollywood fib?

[charlie]

11. These last 2 popes have been saint-making machines

Their rosters of saints dwarf any that came before them.

Interestingly, although JPII abolished the "Devil's Advocate" position, they called Chris Hitchens in to do the duty for Mother Teresa's beatification. I can just imagine their sour faces as they endured a sloshed Hitchens crapping on the beloved nun.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

14. I read about that in Hitchens' autobiography.

He said he is the only living person who has played devil's advocate, or something like that.
I died laughing. I admire Hitchens very much because of his debating skills and ability to cut through other peoples' B.S.

But then, he DID go to Calcutta and speak with the nun who was the accountant for the charity, and found out that no money was spent on actual medical care, people laid around and suffered until they died, b/c Mother T. thought that suffering was redemptive. The patients did not like that. He exposed that she was a complete fraud. She flew in private jets, had millions in a Swiss bank account, and would not let the nuns spend any money on their own needs,nor on the patients.

Don't know if Hitchens was "sloshed" or not. Facing a bunch of old men in lacy dresses might be a situation that calls for a stiff drink beforehand.

[Iggo]

16. edit

it was funny.

but very very rude.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

17. Rude? Telling the truth about a con artist is RUDE?

Mother T. should not get a pass because of religion. That's the point of "God is NOT Great".

Just because a practice is religiously sanctioned, does not mean it's morally right.

There are many of Hitchens' debates on YouTube. One of them is with a rabbi over circumcision, which Hitchens thinks is barbaric. I think it's barbaric and unnecessary too.

[Iggo]

18. No, no, no.

My reply to your comment was very very rude.

So I deleted it.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

19. No problemo!

[Dorian Gray]

20. LOL

I love that drunk HItchens is the "devil's advocate."

Too funny.

[Wolf Frankula]

12. Wait till they find out that he was really a Polish Jew

who returned to Judaism on his deathbed.

Wolf

[Ken Burch]

21. You mean..."wait till they find out that he was really a GAY Polish Jew...

...who returned to Judaism and a few OTHER things on his deathbed".

(...and that he died while thumbing through the Qoran and sharing a spliff with Christopher Hitchens and Sinead O'Connor.)

[olegramps]

23. John Paul II enabled a notorious sexual abuser.

Marcial Maciel founded the Legions of Christ which operated seminaries that recruited young boys for the priesthood. Dating from 1956 he was accused of sexual abuse of young seminarians. In the 1970's 30 young men and boys came forward claiming repeated sexual abuse that had occurred over three decades. Throughout his reign John Paul II was a firm supporter of Marcial Maciel totally disregarding the numerous charges against him of sexual abuse.

His ability to attract young boys to study for the priesthood made him one of John Paul's favorites. It should be also noted that several bishops did not share John Paul esteem and would not allow the Legions of Christ to operate seminaries for young teenagers in their dioceses due to their recruitment methods. Finally he was forced to step down in 2004 as charges continued to be leveled. Then under the direction of Ratzinger who was now pope, the Vatican published a communique stating that Marcial had been retired to a life of prayer and penitence. It was also revealed that he had fathered a daughter which was confirmed by the Legions of Christ. He may have in fact fathered several children. The Vatican ordered a complete investigation after which the leadership of the orders issued statements apologizing for the putrid life of their leader.

This was the man that Pope John Paul II admired and protected. I would suggest that perhaps the title "Patron Saint of Pedophiles" would be appropriate. It inconceivable to me that the Catholic Church would ever consider this charlatan for sainthood. They might as well provide Marcial Maciel with the useless title of the Church's admiration.

[skepticscott]

25. And yet more silliness

The 49-year-old nun - who has largely been shielded from the media - said she still sometimes talks to John Paul.

"For this news conference, I told him to stay right beside me!" said Simon-Pierre, who appeared smiling and wearing a white habit at the news conference.

So why does everyone else over the age of 10 who still talks to imaginary friends get treated for mental illness, but people who cloak it in religious faith get treated like they're something wonderful?

And this:

Church authorities have studied Simon-Pierre's cure and determined it was inexplicable and due to the intercession of John Paul

Wow, did JPII himself tell them that? Or is this just another symptom of the RCC's pathological perversion of the reason they claim to cherish? :crazy:

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20110117/D9KQCKOO0.html