Does Jesus offer more than "One Way" to enter Heaven after death?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

Revelations 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the First Heaven and the First Earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Ezekiel 1:21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

Ezekiel 10:21 Every one had four faces apiece, and every one four wings; and the likeness of the hands of a man was under their wings.

[Gman]

1. John Paul II said

The essential usefulness of faith consists in the fact that, through faith, man achieves the good of his rational nature. And he achieves it by giving his response to God, as is his duty - a duty not only to God, but to himself.

Christ did everything in order to convince us of the importance of this response. Man is called upon to give this response with inner freedom so that it will radiate that veritatis splendor (splendor of truth) so essential to human dignity.

Christ wants to awaken faith in human hearts. He wants them to respond to the word of the Father, but he wants this in full respect for human dignity. In the very search for faith an implicit faith is already present, and therefore the necessary condition for salvation is already satisfied.

Pope John Paul II, from Crossing the Threshold of Hope

[trotsky]

2. Here, let me give you the definitive Christian method of interpreting the bible.

Do I agree with the passage as written? Then it is to be taken literally.

Do I disagree with the passage as written? Then it is to be taken metaphorically.

Easy.

[ZombieHorde]

21. That absolutely seems to be the case. nt

[safeinOhio]

3. After careful study of scripture

I have concluded that after death, you are dead. Period.

[liberal N proud]

4. I am sure people will be dying to find out

:rofl:

Couldn't resist

[LuvNewcastle]

5. What is "Heaven?"

Is it the sky? Is it a name for the universe not including the Earth? Is it a place not perceived by humans, but revealed only to John?

I've read that the descriptions from Ezekiel are thought by some to be descriptions of alien creatures and their aircraft. That explanation seems just as valid as any.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

6. It's a bit off topic but what is your opinion of alleged alien abductions?

[skepticscott]

9. No such event

has ever happened, except in the minds of the abductees.

[humblebum]

17. You can say "I don't believe it ever happened" or that

in all probability it did not happen, but to say that "no such event has ever happened, except in the minds of the abductees" is beyond your capability. That is nothing more than personal opinion.

[skepticscott]

19. Let's put it this way

The chance that anyone has actually been kidnapped by extraterrestrials is the same as the chance that Santa Claus comes down all those chimneys on Xmas Eve. You do the math.

[LuvNewcastle]

18. I think many abduction stories are real.

Whether or not the abductee is literally taken up into an alien ship is beside the point. The mind believes it to be real and so it is. Maybe those who see abductions and other paranormal phenomena, like John's revelation on the Isle of Patmos, are shown things that another being wants them to see. I have an open mind about stories involving aliens or gods or spirits. These stories could be communications from other realms or they could simply be our minds relating information that we need to know. Our minds perceive these stories to be important and I think it's a good idea to figure out why that is.

[skepticscott]

20. Well no, sorry

The mind thinking that something is real does not necessarily make it so. The believed experience is one thing, and actual physical events are something entirely different. And if people actually WERE being taken into alien spacecraft, that would most definitely not be beside the point.

[LuvNewcastle]

22. Would you agree that some sort of event

causes people to have these abduction experiences? Or do you think that these experiences are made up out of whole cloth? Do you think it's possible that a being could influence a human mind to the extent that new and strange memories are created? We see this sort of thing happen when people ingest hallucinogenic drugs. There could be many ways in which such events are perceived and those memories are imprinted on the mind.

[skepticscott]

24. Oh, I don't think people just made up

the stories deliberately. Most if not all of them were honestly convinced that something really happened. But there is no good reason to think that the "events" in these cases happened anywhere but in their minds.

[Submariner]

7. If sin free, you go directly to heaven

If you have a mortal sin, you go directly to hell to burn for eternity. But, if you only have a venial sin(s), you detour through Purgatory for a few centuries or millenia of less intense burning and suffering, before the gates of heaven finally open.

At least that's how Sister Perpetual Agony explained it to us.

[Lint Head]

8. What if you just cop a pen at work?

[Iggo]

15. SINNER!!!

[Submariner]

16. Thefts were generally venial sins

You would probably only do about a half-century of Purgatory for copping a pen. About the only mortal (black) sin of theft would be to steal from the church poor box, otherwise you could steal without worrying about burning in Hell.

It was only the bad stuff like murder, suicide, or masturbating while having impure thoughts that ended up with a rap in Hell.

[d_r]

10. ultimately

The only way to get in to Heaven is if God lets you in.

This is true whether you believe or not, if you think about, because if you don't believe, or if you believe in something else, then there is no God to let you in to the Heaven that doesn't exist. So there's no way to get in there since it doesn't exist in the first place. If you do believe, then whatever process you think that God has put in to place it still boils down to God letting you in or not. Works, faith, whatever, it all goes back to God. So, yes, there is only "one way" in to Heaven, even if people disagree about the details.

[RC]

11. So, Heaven, if it exists, is in our own head,

Because that is where our thought processes are, where we believe or not.
We die, the brain dies, rots. Then what?

[d_r]

13. not exactly what I meant

I'm trying to say, that it doesn't matter if you believe it or not for this particular question - e.g., how many ways are there in to Heaven - ultimately, the only way in is if God lets you in.

I'm not trying to say that God is just in the believer's mind. I'm trying to say that if you don't believe, then the answer "God let's you in" is still correct - because in the case of not believing there is no Heaven or God in the first place, so there is no God to let you in the place that doesn't exist.

Oh man, I can't explain what I was thinking. I was trying to say that it didn't matter, that it would apply either way, but I'm making it sound more complicated than I meant to. I'm sure beer would help me explain it but it is too early.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

12. whether you believe in god or not do you see death as a victory or defeat?

there are at least two ways to look at this question and maybe more.

[Silent3]

23. When the sun goes down, is that a victory or a defeat?

That question makes as much sense as your question.

[edhopper]

14. Okay Jefferson

You need to team up with Boojatta and write a thread.
Cause that would be just awesomely weird!