My religious dillema

[Rocknrule]

This is my testimony, so to speak. I just felt like I had to get some things off my chest.

I'm fortunate enough to go to a supportive, helpful, and cool church. The people there are (for the most part) non-fundie Christians and the primary emphasis of their teachings is having a more fulfilling life and helping the less fortunate, which I feel is what Christianity should be. I feel that if it helps me meet people and helps me become a better person, that alone makes my attendance worth it. That being said...
I am completely 50/50 on the fence between Christianity and atheism/agnosticism. This is due to influences from friends who are Christians, friends who are atheists, personal beliefs, and the still-lingering trace of the fear of hell. If you listen to the Christians with the loudest voice in today's world, you get the idea that in order to be a Christian, you must:
- be conservative
- be staunchly against abortion, homosexuality, and evolution above everything else
- be anal-retentive and fussy about adhering to certain rules and doctrines
- use flowery religious language like "the Spirit", "the Lamb", "the Word", "the Light", etc.
- be not only willing, but also eager to share your faith with others, even if it makes you look like a complete douchebag
and worst of all,
- believe that every human being who ever lived, from Adolf Hitler to Martin Luther King, deserves to be TORTURED FOR ETERNITY just for actions and behaviors that are impossible to completely avoid as a human being (aka "sinning")
Christian or not, I think the idea of hell is disgusting and horrific, and what's worse is that a huge number of Christians defend this doctrine fiercely and insist that is necessary for justice to be enforced. In other words, God is like a cosmic version of Robot Santa from Futurama: EVERYONE is on the naughty list, and the penalty for that is fiery oblivion. I decided awhile ago that if I am going to be Christian, I would have to be universalist in order to maintain my sanity. But my exploration of universalism is another story for another time.
A certain long-haired liberal socialist once said, "By their fruits ye shall know them", and I see many examples of that on this site. Based on the comments I've read here, it seems that most of the posters here and on FSTDT, another site I often visit for entertainment) are sensible, moral, funny, intelligent, and would be fun to hang out with in real life. On the other hand, a lot of Christians (not the ones at my church for the most part, but the vocal majority) seem to have their heads in the clouds and are incapable of thinking for themselves at best and intolerant, hateful, and judgmental at worst. I think I speak for everyone here when I say that I would rather spend eternity with George Carlin than Ray Comfort. I can see this same contrast on a more personal level between one of my best friends who is a hardcore atheist and another who is slowly becoming more and more fundamentalist. Jesus, I think, would be greatly saddened by the fact that so many of his followers are far less loving, compassionate, moral, and enjoyable to be around than the people who don't even believe in him.
I resolved to myself that if I ever am a Christian, I will never, ever become like *those* Christians. You know what I'm talking about, the ones who get quoted on this site. I will never judge someone because of who they love or what they do with their own bodies, I will never obsess over abortion and homosexuality in the first place, I will never browbeat someone because their beliefs deviate from mine, and I will ESPECIALLY never believe that all of humanity deserves eternal torture just for existing. I am not that kind of person and I never will be. If God exists, I am sure he would understand this, having created me and all. I think that whether Jesus was the Son of God or not, he was still a great role model and the world would benefit tremendously if people actually applied his teachings of loving their enemies and giving to the poor rather than living by what most of Christianity has become today. In short, if I'm going to be a Christian, I will be a rebel.

So there's my rant/testimony/what have you. I know much of it is probably incoherent and will probably offend at least one person. But oh well. Just some thoughts I had that needed to be put into writing.

[thereismore]

1. I was a Christian for 15 years. Now I am a very happy atheist.

Now everything in the world makes sense.

[Taverner]

2. Do and believe as you want

This coming from an Atheist who used to be a Fundie

Religion makes 0% difference on the content of character

There are asshole Atheists. There are good Atheists.

There are asshole Christians. There are good Christians.

Etc...

[Nihil]

11. +1 (n/t)

:thumbsup:

[elleng]

3. No worry, imo.

Progressive Christians

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x729097

Catholics back gay rights.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x273684

[Angry Dragon]

4. Only you can decide who or what you are

Your first paragraph is just fine... ... go with that if it makes you a better person

I would not worry about hell too much ......... a loving god would not hang that over your head

[defendandprotect]

5. If you believe in a "god" why do you think you need middlemen to reach her?

[whoneedstickets]

6. Check out your local Unitarian Universalist Fellowship..

There is no doctrinal 'god'. A number of the members of my group are atheists.

The full life, help others vibe will be there.

Universalism holds that everyone is 'saved' (though most UU groups don't think in those terms -- universalism was a logical response to the dogmatic who-gets-saved debates and the question of the unbaptized etc...)

There is also a strong sense that "spirituality' and "community" are intertwined. Among the atheist/humanist members spirituality is all about finding/building/nurturing human connections.

Spirituality is also commonly seen as an individual and collective journey.

Good luck with your search.

[safeinOhio]

7. I'm a life time atheist that

is an active member in my Universal Unitarian Church, along with about half the other members. Great group of sectarian humanist that Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh warn you against.

We say we can't answer your questions, but we can question your answers.

[auntsue]

8. The church I go to has a goal of helping each person

define what God means to THEM. Atheists included. It's All Saints Episcopal Pasadena (in CA) Very progressive, we are have a lecture on Sunday: "Giving up Religion for Lent". Meaning giving up the judgemental, god of wrath kind of religion that is so popular these days. I go for fellowhip and great discussions. The many priests are male/female, gay/straight, young/old. Congregation varied and embracing of all.

[notadmblnd]

9. Let me tell you this. If Jesus was alive today, he would not be a Christian

Not because those that profess to be Christians really aren't followers of Christ in their behavior. But because Jesus (if he ever existed) was a Jew. Jesus did not establish the Christian religion, Saul/Paul did. On nothing other than his own authority. Hell/Sheol/GeHenna is the valley that bordered the SSW wall of Jerusalem, which served as the city’s garbage dump during the time of Jesus. Prior to the first destruction of Jerusalem (c 600-B.C.E.) it had been a graveyard, and then it was further profaned after it was used as a place for sacrificing children to pagan gods. I don't think too many people are going there anymore (unless of course, they go as a tourist). The hell Jesus was talking about was a dump not some place you go when you die to be eternally punished. Man invented that place to scare people into submission.

People were ignorant back then. Many are still. Good luck with your religion, I hope you get what you need out of it. I decided a long time ago, that much like sports, it did nothing for me.

[Rocknrule]

12. Funny you should mention sports

I care about sports probably less than any guy you'll ever meet

[DonCoquixote]

10. To quote Lou Reed

"you can't depend on churches, unless there's real estate that you want to buy, but you can depend on one thing, you need a busload of faith to get by."

[Deep13]

13. What do you think is true?

Do you really believe--that is, accept as factually true--that there is some kind of divine god that is not part of the regular, natural universe and that cares about and has control over what happens to humans? If not, then you have already decided. You are a nonbeliever.

If you do think that some kind of god exists, what is its nature? Do you think he punishes people for the flaws that he/she/it/they presumably created in us? If so, do you think that some kind of supreme blood sacrifice was necessary to pay off these sins? If so, then Christianity or something like it is your cup of tea. Do yo think the Jesus of the NT is basically a very wise man whose lessons are to be emulated, but you don't agree that we are all damned without salvation? Well, then you pass for Christian without believing in its central dogma.

The bottom line is that you cannot choose what to believe. On some base level you already accept certain things as true and others as false or undetermined. "Choosing" to believe this or that is an exercise in self-deception that religion encourages as a virtue. If you are resisting certain key principals of Nicean Christianity, then I submit that you really don't believe those things. Self honesty is the most important thing here.

[KaoriMitsubishi]

14. Let me see if I've got this

God loves you but if you cross him he'll burn you to cinders for eternity. Don't you think that's just a wee bit extreme? Pretending for the moment that such an agency exists do you really want to spend eternity with such a monster? Even if you don't become an atheist there are other religions which aren't quite so - threatening.