Newflash: Unitarians heretical and anti-Xian

[onager]

Another failure is the movie’s neglect to tell viewers that Darwin’s wife was actually a Unitarian. Unitarian beliefs are actually anti-Christian, unbiblical, and heretical, but they were widespread in England and parts of America at the time Darwin lived. Thus, in one sense, it was weakness in Emma’s own faith to begin with that led her to marry Darwin in the first place and eventually accept his false theory...

http://www.movieguide.org/reviews/movie/creation.html

From a review of the excellent 2009 movie about Charles Darwin, Creation. Even the fundie who wrote that review called it "a beautifully made, poignant movie that is very emotionally moving...."

As much as human evolution, Creation is about human love and grief. Naturally, it had trouble finding a distributor here in One Nation Under Jebus. Now maybe if Mel Gibson had made it and shown Darwin being flogged by Wilberforce...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0974014/

[JHB]

1. Oh, that's old news to anyone who's kept an eye on the fundy nutbars...

...but it's always worth a reminder to may Christians:
When they talk about Christianity and Christians, they don't include you.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Gee, I thought that designation belonged to us, Ethical Culturalists or

Secular Humanists.

[JHB]

5. It does.

As far as they're concerned it's all the same thing, different labels for advancing the cause of Satan.

They're not big on making distinctions unless it's on deciding whether you're one of them (Real True Christians) or not. If you're a "not", you just get put in one, big, crowded pidgeonhole.

[msongs]

3. gee I didn't know my church was so well loved by the fear based religion crowd lol nt

[safeinOhio]

4. Anti=Christian,

unbiblical and heretical, like at least 4 U.S Presidents. Both Adams, Fillmore and Taft.

[toddaa]

6. Heresy is the whole point of being a Unitarian

That and coffee

[GliderGuider]

12. +1

All hail the sacred urn...

[JustAnotherGen]

35. Amen

And don't forget our potluck suppers! :rofl: Or as my old UU Pastor husband/wife team in Rochester NY would say -

We U's belief in the League of Women Voters, the ACLU, and potluck suppers! :rofl:

[kwassa]

7. Unitarians generally are both anti-Christian and anti-God. Speaking as a Unitarian ...

I was born into it. Grew up in it.

Am no longer, though under some definitions anything I do is Unitarian.

The "G" word almost never appears in a Unitarian service. While anti-Christian sentiment would not be expressed in the sermons, or talks, or whatever it is now called, it is very common prejudice among the members.

[toddaa]

8. That''s a bit of a stretch

UU churches are all very different. The one I attend is pretty diverse and while I can't say there are many Christian UUs, I wouldn't say they are prejudiced against them. I think the problematic issue of the "G" word in UU is that the community is so diverse, that it gets lost in translation. As a militant fundamentalist atheist, I prefer the company of the pagan and pantheist members of our congregation, than the shrill, arrogant haters, such as myself. Our congregation also participates in a community interfaith group working for social justice with other churches, synagogues, and mosques in our city. We've had a number of Christian and Muslim guest speakers and musicians in our sermons as well, so I'd say your experience is not typical. That said, it does have a strong humanist history.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

9. Unitarians worship the giver of life -- the coffeepot.

:rofl:

[kwassa]

10. They aren't all that different.

I've been in UU churches on the east coast, west coast, and the midwest.

Probably 15 different churches. No "G" word.

Everyone claims that there are Christian UU churches; no one can locate one.

[Critters2]

16. http://www.kings-chapel.org/ nt

[kwassa]

23. this is a bizarre and unique church.

http://www.kings-chapel.org/history.html

King's Chapel continues to follow a form of the Anglican liturgy, using the 9th edition of the Book of Common Prayer According to the Use in King's Chapel, published in 1986. This Book of Common Prayer is descended from an Anglican Book of Common Prayer edited by James Freeman for use at King's Chapel. Our current edition continues to espouse Unitarian theology and supports non-creedal Christian worship.

King's Chapel is an independent congregation affiliated with the Unitarian Universalist Association.

This seems to be somewhere between Episcopal and Unitarian. I find it interesting, since I have been both. They must eliminate the Nicene Creed right out of the book, as well as all trinitarian references, which are many.

[GliderGuider]

11. My take is that UUs think that God is a perfectly acceptable belief - for others.

I also grew up Unitarian, and while there is more than a passing nod to some kind of abstract "spirit" in their services, there is no hint of a personified, objectified God - except as part of the spectrum of beliefs that others have. I'm sure there are some individual UUs who have a residual fondness for the Christian God, but Unitarianism in my experience is resolutely humanist. Buddhism finds a much more comfortable home at a UU service than does Christianity.

[Critters2]

15. http://www.uuchristian.org/ nt

[kwassa]

24. you are right, and I am wrong

Here is the list:

http://www.uuchristian.org/S_ChapterMap.html

though including the * ones seems a bit thin on evidence.

[Odin2005]

13. The fundies REALLY hate UUs because we are so tolerant and open to may views and paths.

Remember the Teabagger who shot up a UU church in Tennessee?

[kwassa]

14. So are many other churches.

UUs are less unique than they think they are.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

17. UUs have no creedal test.

I know of no other churches that have no creedal test.

www.uua.org

[Critters2]

18. The United Church of Christ has no creedal test.

http://www.ucc.org/beliefs/


"The UCC therefore receives the historic creeds and confessions of our ancestors as testimonies, but not tests of the faith.'

[cleanhippie]

21. Well, you have to believe in christ and accept the bible as the word of god, right?

UU churches do not use the bible or any "scripture" at all. One can believe anything they want, or have no belief at all. In fact, much of the UU community considers themselves secular humanists, atheist or agnostic. Would those folks be welcome and have their views validated at a UCC?

[Critters2]

22. You can define what you mean by "believeing in Christ" for yourself,

and no, you don't have to believe the Bible is the word of God.

Atheists might have some trouble, though we have one who participates in pretty much every program we do by worship. AGain, you are expected to make affirmations about Jesus to be a member, but each person can define these for themselves.

Everyone is welcome to worship with us, receive communion etc. We are Christian, but very broad in our interpretation. But we wouldn't tell anyone they're not welcome.

And we hold to no creed.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

26. statement of faith looks like a creedal test to me.

"We believe in God...and Jesus Christ...and the Holy Spirit." And substitutionary atonement ("Christ our crucified and risen savior").

That's at least four items.

[cleanhippie]

27. My point is, that to be a member of UCC, on has to believe in the Christian god, right?

Not in Allah, or Vishnu, or Thor or Wicca or even no belief at all. You get my point, right? To be in the UCC, you have to be a christian, which is a creed, however broad you want to make THAT interpretation.

[Critters2]

19. Exactly. nt

[cleanhippie]

20. What are some of those churches you mention that are open to all ideas?

Please, I would like to know.

[kwassa]

25. The Episcopal Church

There is no creedal test. We read the Apostle's Creed every week, but understanding and interpretation is up to us.

As it is practiced, among those I know, there are many spiritual practices and interests among individual members that fall outside of traditional Christian churches. My rector has considerable Eastern religious influences, as shown in his sermons. He also teaches yoga.

The church is socially progressive. My assistant rector was married to her same-sex partner in a ceremony in the garden next to National Cathedral. The Bishop of Washington presided.

The head of the US church, the Presiding Bishop, is a woman.

Other mainline denominations can also be quite liberal.

[cleanhippie]

28. But isn't that still a christian denomination?

If so, it accepts all view on christianity, but nothing more than that, right?

[kwassa]

29. It doesn't reject other, non-christian views.

and the debate about what is or is not christian can go on forever.

[cleanhippie]

30. I was not trying to debate what is and is not "christian". Sorry if you got that idea.

Believe in christ = christian. What is there to debate?

[quaker bill]

38. Quakers

[Lionel Mandrake]

31. Isaac Newton was a closet Unitarian.

In those days a "Unitarian" was a Christian who did not believe in the Trinity. In any church that accepts the Nicene Creed, Unitarianism in this sense is heresy.

Newton would have lost his job at Cambridge if he had been less circumspect about his religion.

[Lionel Mandrake]

32. And the college where Newton lived for 30 years

(one of many colleges that make up Cambridge University) was named Trinity College.

How's that for irony?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

33. John Calvin barbecued the first Unitarian, in Geneva.

Michael Servetus.


They merged with the Universalists, who believed in Universal Salvation, in 1962 or so.

[Lionel Mandrake]

34. There were many such barbecues during the Reformation.

Servetus was hated by both Catholics and Protestants.

Luther had a price on his head and could easily have suffered the same fate; he retaliated by calling the Pope the Antichrist.

Bruno was barbecued in Rome in 1600.

Galileo was in deep shit a few decades later and barely escaped being tortured.

Neither Catholics nor Protestants were tolerant of differing beliefs in those days.

[jeepnstein]

37. People are that way.

I know some serious academics who would gladly burn some of their colleagues at the stake over a variety of topics. Human pride is a powerful thing some times.

[JustAnotherGen]

36. I'm like him in my beliefs

I don't believe in the trinity - at all.

I can't be a Christian - because I don't believe in the father, son and holy ghost.

I believe that there was a human being who was a jewish rabbi that got all up in the Roman leaderships grill and gave them hell.

I also believe in the divine feminine.

I believe that science and reason trumps ALL.

I do believe in a spirit - but that spirit is not present, a little man behind the curtains that created the world in 7 days . . . Concept is a hoot to me. But that said - You can have an infinite end but not an infinite beginning. We all learned that simple concept in junior high school math classes.