Most Important Archaeological Find Ever Shows Jesus Was Openly Gay Man

[FreeState]

This is bound to cause some heads to spin.... It almost sounds like satire, but it's not...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/apr/04/jesus-gay-man-codices

The most astounding finding from the newly discovered lead codices is that Jesus Christ was unambiguously and openly gay. He and his disciples formed a same-sex coterie, bound by feelings of love and mutual support. There are recorded instances of same-sex activity – the “beloved disciple” plays a significant role – and there is affirmation of the joys of friendship and of living and loving together.

A whole new complexion is given to that rather puzzling passage where Jesus exhorts his followers to break family ties: “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14, 26). It seems clear now that this is less a negative repudiation of family and more a positive exhortation to join in affirmation of a gay lifestyle and love.

There is at least one new parable, that of the two young men. There are clear echoes of the relationship between David and Jonathan, for Jesus speaks of one young man having his soul “knit with the soul” of the other, and loving him “as his own soul”. Intriguing is evidence that the Catholics might be closer to the truth about the status of Mary, the mother of Jesus, than are the Protestants. She has a much bigger role in the life of Jesus than many hitherto expected, with Jesus frequently returning home and making much of her.

Conversely, there is at least one incident when Jesus quarrels violently with Joseph, who shows great hostility and makes wild claims about “manliness”. Before, one might have thought that, given Mary’s virginity, Joseph’s attitude was reflecting the ambiguities of his status in the family; but now it seems more probable that we have here a classic example of the Freudian triangle: over-possessive mother, hostile father, gay son.

[undeterred]

1. Sounds pathological to me.

[FreeState]

2. How so? N/T

[undeterred]

10. I think this passage is one of the most easily abused passages

in the new testament: “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14, 26).

It makes it easy for people who are religious to blame difficulty getting along with family on the other family members lack of religion.

I don't understand how a gay interpretation makes that any better. Also, doesn't it buy into a stereotype of a gay man's family of origin? (over-possessive mother, hostile father, gay son)

[Adsos Letter]

11. I've always thought the whole description of the David/Jonathan relationship...

was simply describing a uniquely close friendship, more like brothers than friends. If David were gay, how then his lust for Bathsheba? :crazy:

[undeterred]

24. I think you're right.

Its so easy for people to project what they need to see. Human beings can have intense love for each other that is not sexual. And people see condemnation in the Bible when it isn't there also.

[Adsos Letter]

26. Yeah, I think your observation is a good one.

[hedgehog]

51. You've never heard of bisexuals?

[coalition_unwilling]

60. Not to be too irreverant, but David was a shepherd. Say what you

will about Jonathan, he was a major step up from your average stinky sheep.

Reminds me of an old joke:

Q: What do the Rolling Stones say to a Scotsman?
A: "Hey, you, get off of my cloud."
Q: What does a Scotsman say to another Scotsman?
A: "Hey, McCloud, get off of my ewe."

I'm Scotch-Irish, so am allowed to joke, I hope :)

[yurbud]

61. bi

[golddigger]

67. Read (1 Samuel 20:41)

"They kissed each other and wept with each other until David 'EXCEEDED'."

We are talking bisexuality here. You might ask what's that odd puzzling word in 1 Samuel 20:41 mean? The original word for exceeding (gadal) means to grow, to become large, etc.

So, lets use that definition and put the scene into perspective: Two young virile men who are deeply in love are embracing and kissing and David "grows large." David had an erection while making it with his lover Jonathan.

Even King Saul spoke out: Then Saul's anger flared up against Jonathan, and Saul said to him, 'You son of a perverse and rebellious woman, don't you know that I know that you have chosen the 'SON of JESSE' to your own confusion and unto the confusion of your mother's nakedness? For as long as the son of Jesse liveth upon the ground, thou shalt not be established,nor thy kingdom. Wherefore now send and fetch him unto me, for he shall surely die." (1 Samuel 20:30-31).
It's evident here that Saul knew that David and Jonathan's relationship was more than friends. Saul was saying to Jonathan: You son of a bitch! I know what's going on with you and David! You're sick, confused kid! Your sexual relationship with David has brought shame on your mother!"

[MilesColtrane]

3. I always thought the sandals were a dead give away.

[Union Scribe]

4. Sounds like it was written by a teabagger

who only thinks men can be intimate if their dicks are involved. Emotionally stunted at best, homophobic at worst.

[NC_Nurse]

5. Paging Fred Phelps....

Wouldn't it be great if it made his hateful head explode? One can dream, anyway...

[Adsos Letter]

6. It's not satire; it's imagination, and your OP misrepresents the article. From the article...

What would you add to the Bible?

If you could add one passage or parable to the New Testament, what would it be?

Kurt Vonnegut once suggested that the story of Jesus be rewritten to make the moral clearer. As it now stands, he says, Jesus was born to Son of God, crucified like a common criminal, and then returned to judge the world. The moral that people drew from this was "Don't mess with the Son of God", but that was wrong, because it suggested it was all right to mess with those who have less powerful connections. That's certainly the moral that history suggests we drew. So, Vonnegut says, what God should have done to make his message clear was to adopt any old worthless bum at the moment of crucifixion. The clouds would part, and a giant finger would appear and a voice say "This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased". The moral then would be that it wasn't safe to assume that anyone was so wretched and insignificant that they could be tortured without fear of retaliation.

Now a set of very early lead-bound books have surfaced in Israel which appear to contain the earliest known Christian writings. So what do we hope they say? How could the gospels be improved in the spirit of Vonnegut? After 1900 years of misunderstanding, how could the message be made clearer?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/apr/04/religion-christianity

Your post is one man's answer to that question, NOT what the recently discovered lead codices actually say (which has yet to be determined).

[FreeState]

13. Sorry about that I some how posted the link from the text of the article I was reading

Here's the original http://unicornbooty.com/2011/04/most-important-archaeological-find-ever-shows-jesus-was-openly-gay-man/

[Adsos Letter]

14. No need to apologize. I sounded harsh, and I ask your forgiveness for that.

I have no excuse.

[Johonny]

53. I don't understand Kurt Vonnegut's answer

If the Bible is unclear, it is only because it is a collection of books from different authors whom all had different theological arguments to make. Many thought God was coming to Earth to judge. In that case those author make it pretty clear it was all right to mess with those who have less powerful connections.

It seems impossible to add a passage to clear up the situation because the bible isn't written the way Kurt claims it was written. It is fun to look at the Gospel's in the bible as well as those outside to see what people did add. In which case Kurt would probably less than happy as a lot of writers added stories to exalt Jesus even more and to remove the judgment of mankind from a very real an real soon event.

[cleanhippie]

69. Uh, isn't all religion simply imagination?

[defendandprotect]

7. There are at least two instances in the Bible where Jesus is having a lie-down with a male ...

can't quote where exactly -- but probably some internet websites which

have the quotes --

However -- a Jesus strictly homosexual? Think that would be unlikely no matter

how you look at the Jesus fable -- possibly some would like to use a homosexual

Jesus to chase away suspicions that he was involved with Mary Magdalene sexually.

That she was his confidant, is clear -- he spoke to her in ways he spoke with no

one else.

But -- interesting --

[Adsos Letter]

8. delete

Not worth the hassle.

[pnwmom]

15. You can't quote them exactly because those passages

don't exist in any conventional Bible. Jesus having a "lie-down with a male." Hah! I have read the New Testament in more than one translation. I can't imagine where anyone picked up this idea.

( Although in some cultures, people lay down to eat meals with each other. I know they did this in Morocco -- maybe in Israel, too, at the time.)

Nothing in the New Testament condemns homosexuality; but Jesus's sexuality is not a topic, either.

[Adsos Letter]

20. A sort of off-the-topic remark...but a very interesting book by Ramsay MacMullen

discusses the whole idea of laying down together to eat in the culture of the Near East and North Africa, as represented by mensa's (stone covers to graves) made so families could lie down together and dine around the tombs of loved ones, sharing a meal with them. He suggests that many of the earliest Christian gatherings of rural folk took place in these cemeteries.

The Second Church: Popular Christianity A.D. 200-400 (Writings from the Greco-Roman World Supplements Series) <2009>. http://www.amazon.com/Second-Church-Christianity-D-Greco-Roman/dp/1589834038/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1302593047&sr=8-4#_

An excellent book, combining his knowledge as a Professor Emeritus of History and Classics (Yale) with archaeology.

Edit: spelling :dunce:

[pnwmom]

25. Interesting! My first experience with this

was in a Moroccan restaurant, where my husband and I were taken in the course of his job interview. We had to lie down to eat, and we had to eat with our fingers. I might have enjoyed the experience more if I wasn't wearing a dress and it wasn't an interview!

[Adsos Letter]

28. A dress could be difficult, I'm sure!

MacMullen makes the argument that the pre-Christian cultures of the region often met in cemeteries on important anniversaries (loved one's death, religious occasions, celebrations, etc.) and that this came into Near Eastern/Alexandrian Christianity as a pleasantly remembered experience from their original cultures.

Some of the writings of the North African Christian bigwigs, like Tertullian, condemned the practice because apparently there was "too much" happy mingling between non-Christians and Christians at these events. I kid you not.

Edit: spelling :dunce:

[pnwmom]

39. And it wasn't a long dress, either. I was definitely unprepared.

But it could have been worse. Having to eat rice balls with my fingers, wearing that dress while lying down in a CEMETERY would definitely have been worse.



:silly:

[defendandprotect]

31. There was no food in these quotes -- !!

However, obviously the tradition of lying about and eating together is preserved

even in European paintings!

[Adsos Letter]

32. Well, do me a favor and find the quotes for me. I would be interested to read them

in their context.

[defendandprotect]

34. Check some of the websites which do these religious things --

They have been quoted previously --

[pnwmom]

41. Yeah, right. The source is no doubt as reliable as the OP.

Moral of the story: you can't believe everything you read on the Internet. If you're going to make claims about what a particular book says, you should read the actual book.

[defendandprotect]

65. Have you read the book under discussion?

If you are truly interested in information, you pursue it --

[defendandprotect]

30. You had better start rereading -- cause it's there -- !!

One as I recall it is as little as five or six words --

[pnwmom]

9. It isn't satire, it's more of a daydream, a "what if" scenario.

The new texts haven't yet been examined by scholars. We don't know if they are authentic or what they say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12888421

A group of 70 or so "books", each with between five and 15 lead leaves bound by lead rings, was apparently discovered in a remote arid valley in northern Jordan somewhere between 2005 and 2007.

A flash flood had exposed two niches inside the cave, one of them marked with a menorah or candlestick, the ancient Jewish religious symbol.

A Jordanian Bedouin opened these plugs, and what he found inside might constitute extremely rare relics of early Christianity.

That is certainly the view of the Jordanian government, which claims they were smuggled into Israel by another Bedouin.

SNIP

[FreeState]

12. I posted the wrong link... The original article didn't make that clear

http://unicornbooty.com/2011/04/most-important-archaeological-find-ever-shows-jesus-was-openly-gay-man/

Still can't figure out copy and paste on my iPad... But yor right apparently the original articlei read it one was a bit misleading... I had clicked on the next link to read it whilei was posting this and somehow copied the URL... Anyway your right it's anwhat if...

[Tx4obama]

16. Well, republican heads will be exploding anyway

earlier I tweeted it out to the #GOP #TeaParty #Palin #TCOT

LOL :)

[Adsos Letter]

22. You're very, very bad...

:rofl:

[Tx4obama]

23. Yep. Someone should 'spank me' ! LOL :)

Off to bed with me, I'm getting too silly now ;)

[pnwmom]

18. Thanks for clarifying. n/t

[Paradoxical]

17. There's zero evidence that Jesus Christ was even a real man.

[Tx4obama]

19. Well there ya go - maybe Jesus was an hermaphrodite! n/t

[defendandprotect]

33. True -- but many arguments also against his existence as a god, as well --

However, the contraditions in these writings makes clear that a struggle

was going on, always -- between those who wanted to teach non-violence and something

of humans loving one another -- and those who wanted to teach violence and war-making --

We have the conflict of a "god" made in the form of "Roman Emperor" -- with the Jesus

who turns the other cheek!

Evidently, there was indeed a long time war on "heretics" who claimed Jesus' humanity

rather than his "godliness" -- and Jesus does claim his "humanity" in most of the

writings.

[Adsos Letter]

35. "There Is No Crime for Those Who Have Christ"

There Is No Crime for Those Who Have Christ: Religious Violence in the Christian Roman Empire (Transformation of the Classical Heritage) by Michael Gaddis (Oct 14, 2005)

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_43?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=there+is+no+crime+for+those+who+have+christ&sprefix=there+is+no+crime+for+those+who+have+christ

Great book; talks about exactly what you are talking about when you refer to the war on heretics.

[defendandprotect]

36. Just showing how human nature works ... people have pointed to the effort to

try ro make Martin Luther King, Jr. into something other than human --

more godlike.

Rather, we need the lesson that average humans can rise to do great things --

that that potential for good is within all of us --



Hitler, of course -- another kind of lesson --

When many of us wondered how something like the Holocaust could have happened,

many would suggest that ... "in order to understand, you would have to be insane!"

But there were answers -- there were reasons -- and average people do evil things.


Thanks for the book link -- I'll try to give it a look!

[pnwmom]

21. On second thought, I think it is satire. And the author intends to tweak both Christians

and gay people. Hence passages like this:

"Intriguing is evidence that the Catholics might be closer to the truth about the status of Mary, the mother of Jesus, than are the Protestants. She has a much bigger role in the life of Jesus than many hitherto expected, with Jesus frequently returning home and making much of her.

"Conversely, there is at least one incident when Jesus quarrels violently with Joseph, who shows great hostility and makes wild claims about "manliness". Before, one might have thought that, given Mary's virginity, Joseph's attitude was reflecting the ambiguities of his status in the family; but now it seems more probable that we have here a classic example of the Freudian triangle: over-possessive mother, hostile father, gay son."

[eridani]

27. Oh, please--Jesus was a woman!

She kept trying to explain things to a bunch of men who just refused to get it.

She fed crowds of people on short notice when there was very little food.

Even after She died, she had to get up after three days because there was still more work to do.

[Adsos Letter]

29. !

:spray:

[defendandprotect]

37. Oh, love it -- !!!

Thank you --

:) :)

[pnwmom]

40. LOL. n/t

[deutsey]

52. Very funny.

:thumbsup:

[JohnnyRingo]

38. Did you hear that?

It sounded like heads exploding.

[Javaman]

42. I'm sure Mary Magdalen would have a few opinions on this. nt

[PurityOfEssence]

63. Sorry, but she is now "Mary Hagdalen"

Makes sense to me: all that hard pelvic labor would make someone want to hang out with God Jr. and the delightfully merry men.

[SidDithers]

43. As a fictional character, we can make Jesus whatever we want him to be...nt

Sid

[raouldukelives]

44. I like to picture Jesus with giant angel wings

playing lead guitar for Lynyrd Skynyrd and I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk!

[closeupready]

45. "We need to do more research" in 3, 2, 1....

[Iggo]

46. Yeah. Like THAT'S what's weird about the Jesus story.

[SidDithers]

47. ...

:thumbsup:

Great post.

Sid

[Arugula Latte]

50. Yes. Everything else is 100 percent believable.

:rofl:

[DefenseLawyer]

48. I like to picture Jesus in a tuxedo T-Shirt

because it says I want to be formal, but I'm here to party.

[Zanzoobar]

49. I think I just heard an approving roar from the direction of the local diocese.

[upi402]

54. ...and mom was a virgin...

:rofl: Talk about sticking to your story!!!

[Iggo]

59. R Kelly would be so proud.

[upi402]

62. and Sam Kinison

I just watched a clip from him doing that bit. He's no saint huh? But his bit on the last supper and resurrection was funny.

[PurityOfEssence]

64. Yeah, but his girlfriend's pissed.

As usual.

[WinkyDink]

55. The OP has already said he ERRED. This is NOT a FACTUAL ARTICLE.

Moving right along now.......

[cleanhippie]

70. Well, to be fair, Religion itself is not reallt FACTUAL either, so...

[Yo_Mama]

56. Uh - you do know this is made up, right?

It's in response to the question "What would you add to the Bible?"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/apr/04/religion-christianity

Now a set of very early lead-bound books have surfaced in Israel which appear to contain the earliest known Christian writings. So what do we hope they say? How could the gospels be improved in the spirit of Vonnegut? After 1900 years of misunderstanding, how could the message be made clearer?

The codices haven't been proven genuine and have none of this stuff in them. On the other hand, the "discovery" isn't wildly variant from what we already have in the Bible (except for the stuff about Jesus' parents), and it is not that different from some already existing interpretations. The gay Jesus thing has been around for a good long while.

[cleanhippie]

71. You are talking about the WHOLE "jesus" story, not just the article, right?

I mean, its ALL made up, so...

[xchrom]

57. while i do believe that jesus was gay -- i think these lead books are phony. nt

[joeybee12]

58. The secret gosepl of Mark...

supposedly found by a theologian then destoyed...pretty much makes the case for Jesus being gay.

[dimbear]

66. Agreed. Morton Smith's conjectural find of a letter about Secret Mark

is the inspiration for the bit.

It is still very much up in the air how real that letter was.

[golddigger]

68. Read (Mark 14: 50-52)

"Then all his disciples deserted him and ran away. One young man following behind was clothed only in a long linen shirt. When the mob tried to grab him, he slipped out of his shirt and ran away naked."

[struggle4progress]

72. Heavy metal secrets from a Mid-East cave (Jewish Chronicle | 3 March 2011)

Israel’s archaeological establishment believes they are a fake. But could a collection of metal books be an early example of Kabbalah?
By Simon Rocker

... The books appear to be "Kabbalah-related and the nature of the content indicates a magical incantation style of writing," Mr Feather said. Before 400 CE, almost all ancient codices were made of parchment. The lead codices "predate any form of codex by several hundred years and this particular material was probably chosen to ensure permanency."

The Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA), however, has dismissed the idea that the books are of any value. Experts who examined some of them, it said, "absolutely doubted their authenticity". According to the IAA, the books are a "mixture of incompatible periods and styles…without any connection or logic. Such forged motifs can be found in their thousands in the antiquities markets of Jordan and elsewhere in the Middle East."

Professor Andre Lemaire, an expert in ancient inscriptions from the Sorbonne, was also dubious, saying the writing on some of the codices he had seen made no sense and it was "a question apparently of sophisticated fakes" ...

http://www.thejc.com/judaism/judaism-features/46028/heavy-metal-secrets-a-mid-east-cave

[struggle4progress]

73. Unholy row as new expert calls ancient scrolls fakes (Express | 10 April 2011)

Sunday April 10,2011
By Roddy Ashworth

... Dr Peter Thonemann, a specialist in Greek inscriptions and lecturer in ancient history and archaeology at Wadham College, Oxford, says they are fakes that “any expert would see through in five or 10 minutes” ...

After being sent photographs by e-mail by Mr Elkington, Dr Thonemann is convinced the credit card-sized books were made within the past 50 years in the Jordanian capital Amman.

He said: “The image they are saying is Christ is the sun god Helios from a coin that came from the island of Rhodes. There are also some nonsense inscriptions in Hebrew and Greek” ...

Mr Elkington hit back at Dr Thonemann yesterday: “He’s not a biblical scholar, he’s a Greek classicist ...

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/239742/Unholy-row-as-new-expert-calls-ancient-scrolls-fakes-

[struggle4progress]

74. Peter Thonemann publishes emails between him and David Elkington about forged lead codices

... I replied that I would be delighted to have a look ...

The text was incised by someone who did not know the Greek language, since he does not distinguish between the letters lambda and alpha: both are simply represented, in each of the texts, by the shape Λ.

The text literally means ‘without grief, farewell! Abgar also known as Eision’. This text, in isolation, is meaningless.

However, this text corresponds precisely to line 2 of the Greek text of a bilingual Aramaic/Greek inscription published by J.T. Milik, Syria 35 (1958) 243-6 no.6 (SEG 20, 494), and republished in P.-L. Gatier, Inscriptions grecques et latines de Syrie XXI: Inscriptions de la Jordanie, 2: Region centrale (Paris 1986), no.118 ...

https://curiouspresbyterian.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/peter-thonemann-publishes-emails-between-him-and-forged-lead-codices-owner-david-elkington/

[struggle4progress]

75. ... many of the images that can be seen on the photos released to date look as if they are drawn

from coins and pictures in books of antiquities (including a garbled legend obviously miscopied from the tombstone of a certain Abgar <note the name> in Amman Museum) ...
"Lead Codices" Saga continues: the Jordanian Response
By Paul_Barford 04/04/2011 00:12:00
http://www.archnews.co.uk/featured-blogs/paul-barford/5724-quot-lead-codices-quot-saga-continues-the-jordanian-response.html

[struggle4progress]

76. ... The lead scholar is David Elkington? Check out this website for his book

In the Name of the Gods: "Everything that exists does so because of vibration." Is this really a summary of his book? And what is this about a book he published last year called The Lead Codices? Then I discovered that he has a literary agent and a book on these lead tablets already in production. Read all about it HERE. These are Elkington's credentials that I found on the website announcing his book In the Name of the Gods:

David Elkington was born in England in 1962 but spent his formative years travelling and exploring the Southern Hemisphere with his parents. His childhood in Australia was supplemented by sojourns in Polynesia, New Zealand and Indonesia. It was in these places that he first developed an interest in Sacred Sites and ancient traditions.

He trained as an artist at the Bath Academy of Art where an interest in the relationship between Christian myth and sacred sites was fuelled. Research for 'In the Name of the Gods' began in earnest in the early 1980s when he walked through Europe and the Middle East on a quest to understand and appreciate the mind of Ancient Man and his relationship with particular sites upon the Earth. For 20 years David has been led on a revelatory trail through world mythology, linguistics and philology into geophysics, architecture, acoustics, music, neuro-physiology, theology and still further into the all-encompassing, resonant atmosphere of the planet. As his research continued, surprising results emerged. For several years, David has been working with Dr Keith Hearne, the 'father of lucid dream research', on a new area of psychology - Geolinguistics - which sees the development of language as a direct result of the Earth's physical environment.

David began to introduce his work to the public in 1996 when he presented a major lecture on 'Acoustic Resonance, Life and Consciousness' at the Quest for Knowledge Conference in London ...

http://forbiddengospels.blogspot.com/2011/03/lead-tablets-come-on.html