Church Fight!

[onager]

I've been getting emails from an unimpeachable source...my Mom...about a big fight that's been going on in her SoB (Southern Baptist) church for about 6 months.

I think it's a fascinating glimpse into REAL, bare-knuckled church operations...as opposed to the squishy BS we can read on any website about "our wonderful faith community."

A few days ago, the "Pastor's" wife came out to her car, and found her tires slashed and the windshield smashed. (Stupid Xians. You're only supposed to do that to cars with Darwin-Fish.)

More recently, the Pastor was called in and unceremoniously fired by the church committee. Mom sent me stuff about his severance package, which was generous. Including stuff like his "Book & Periodical Allowance" etc. etc.

For the all-important CONTEXT: this is not a mega-church, though apparently this preacher was pushing it in that direction...because it looked good on his resume, as he was apparently dumb enough to tell several members of the congregation.

In fact, this preacher has got to be one of the most politically tin-eared idiots I ever heard of. Don't they teach this stuff in the SoB seminaries?

This is a rural SoB church founded in the mid-19th century. Just as you would expect, a handful of families run the church committee and always have.

One of those families had a daughter who had been the church organist for years. This preacher fired her and hired one of his friends. The other woman was a volunteer, so that move cost the church some money.

He brought in another one of his friends as "Assistant Pastor," even though the church really isn't big enough to need an Ass. Pastor.

Oh, and another one of the church's First Families had a daughter who was choir director - another unpaid volunteer. You guessed it! This guy shit-canned her and hired yet another Baptist buddy. Using the excuse that the church "needed a professional in the position."

This guy was a regular one-man job bank! Back when labor unions existed, I think they called that "featherbedding."

My Mom emailed that the preacher "really enjoyed his Mission Trips overseas." I emailed her back and said: "Mom...most people call those 'vacations.'"

Curious, I went to the church web-site. They haven't scrubbed it yet, so this particular preacher was begging making a hard sales pitch for an upcoming mission trip.

And what godless, benighted Third World backwater was in desperate need of a "mission trip" from a rural Baptist preacher?

London. Yes, THAT one - in the UK.

Words fail me. For once.

[RKP5637]

1. For me, religion has always been about politics and domination, and I think history bears

me correct on that ...

[humblebum]

5. And atheism hasn't? Organized atheism has a political history going back

many years.

[RKP5637]

7. Yep, I think they're all in the same bucket. n/t

[immoderate]

8. You mean like the Constitution?

Organized atheism? :rofl:

Oxy-moran much?

--imm

[humblebum]

12. More like the Cult of Reason or the League of Militant Atheists,

to name just a couple.

[immoderate]

16. You skipped some details.

The Cult of Reason, whose crime was to promote reason, was beheaded by Robespierre, who declared France a theistic country. A good Christian way to deal with dissent.

The League of Militant Atheists, was a gang of Stalinist thugs. Their methods and philosophy were not typically atheist.

I guess I can understand your paranoia, if you think these long dead groups are out to get you.

--imm

[humblebum]

18. I skipped no details. I merely answered your question honestly, but

the League of Militant Atheists, and atheism in general, was not confined to Stalin's era and organized atheism continued on. You seem a bit ignorant of facts, while dismissing the deeds of atheist groups.

[immoderate]

21. I didn't dimiss getting beheaded.

I belong to several atheist groups, some think of themselves as militant. What in your active imagination do you think we are doing to those poor theists. Maybe we can expand. Does the League of Militant Atheists have a dress code like in 1984? :rofl:

--imm

[humblebum]

22. You're just kinda all over the place aren't you? And

displaying a huge ignorance of history.

[immoderate]

23. You, OTOH, know ALL ABOUT history, so...

I'm sure you can guide me to where I will find the facts you refer to.
I am particularly interested in atrocious deeds committed by militant atheist groups, especially in the USA. I can't wait for you to show me the list. :bounce:

--imm

[humblebum]

24. Your straw men are just kinda standing in line aren't they? You have

drifted so far away from the original argument and trying to suggest that I have claimed things, which I never did. Where did I ever refer to "atrocious deeds committed by militant atheist groups, especially in the USA?" Do you really want to open a can of worms?

[immoderate]

29. I want to know what you fear from "organized atheism."

You know, some who, what, when, stuff. Is the Atheist League recruiting? How do I find them? :shrug:

--imm

[humblebum]

32. where are you getting all this stuff? Who said I feared "organized atheism"?

You're the one who asked me to define it and there are organized atheist groups all over the country and world.
And the "Atheist League" you are referring to, I know nothing of that particular group. If you mean League of Militant Atheists - the group by that particular name has had several names i.e., the Godless, Society of the Godless, Union of the Godless, etc. It had several million members and thousands of local chapters in the 20th century, and since the fall of Communism, when state atheism lost it state status in communist countries, it has morphed into an organization that still exists today called "Znanie." Loosely translated it is "Knowledge" or "Knowledge Society."

Similar organizations existed in China, South Asia, and East Block countries.

[immoderate]

34. It's the domination.

Wasn't it?

--imm

[humblebum]

36. One straw man down and another takes his place. nt

[immoderate]

38. OK, I thought you said atheism was about "politics and domination..."

Now it looks like you had nothing to say. It's certainly been unenlightening. :)

--imm

[humblebum]

40. The phrase "politics and domination" is yours. I think you're talking to yourself. nt

[immoderate]

41. Really? See post #1 and your reply (agreement) #5.

Didn't come from me. I'm not confused.

--imm

[humblebum]

42. That's better. You were quoting me on something I never said.

Agreeing with something is a different story and yes I do agree with that statement. The history of organized atheism is one "politics and domination." Very much so. There now I've said it.

[immoderate]

43. I hope you write the book.

There should be some tribute to atheist dominance. Ah, wherever it might be.

--imm

[okasha]

33. "Not typically atheist"="no true Scotsman"

How as "typically atheist" defined in Stalinist Russia if not by Stalinists?

[immoderate]

35. Cute.

--imm

[okasha]

37. Just pointing it out

since it's a cliche that gets dragged out every time someone objects to tarring a whole group with the actions of an extremist.

[immoderate]

39. Heaven forfend!

Moi? :shrug:

--imm

[Humanist_Activist]

11. WTF is "Organized Atheism"?

Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?

[laconicsax]

19. He's talking about communist dictatorships.

It's his broken record, which is best ignored.

[humblebum]

25. So American Atheists isn't an organization of atheists, or the

Atheist Alliance International, etc.? There are many more.

[laconicsax]

28. Oh, so you're adding advocacy groups to the argument. Good to know. n/t

[humblebum]

30. I didn't add anything. I was asked to give some examples of organized atheism.

AA is an organized advocacy group for atheists, as are the others. I guess if you have the term atheist in your title, it's pretty obvious.

[laconicsax]

31. You were replying to someone else in a response to me?

Whatever.

[patrice]

2. What do you want to bet that this is not an un-usual model in not-for-profits of various kinds?nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Churches can be absolute snake pits sometimes.

They are human institutions, after all. "God" doesn't make church people behave any better than anyone else in any other kind of organization.

[ZombieHorde]

4. I was close friends with the spiritual coordinator of the Tibet Buddhist center in my town.

They had their drama too.

[SoutherDem]

6. Sounds just like the So.B church I use to attend.

[ElboRuum]

9. I'm going to hell...

Every time I saw SoB, my brain went "son-of-a-b****", and when I saw Ass. Pastor, I lost it big time.

[checks-n-balances]

10. Me too! The Head Pastor was a real Ass. Pastor n/t

[jeepnstein]

14. I don't think it was unintentional.

[ElboRuum]

15. That's what made it so funny. n/t

[jeepnstein]

13. Chruch fights can get really ugly.

That's especially true when everyone is fighting over everything but what the Bible actually says. A fight almost always erupts when a previously sleepy congregation begins to show signs of renewed growth. People get grouchy when their spiritual nap is interrupted.

One of the worst police calls I ever handled when I worked the road was a church fight. It was a brawl in the parking lot among elders and deacons, and their lovely wives, over something really trivial. Apparently they congregation wanted to add a new Elder to the mix and the existing ones felt this would tip some perceived balance of power. They weren't defending their faith but rather their turf. We separated the warring factions and spent way too much time convincing them to all go home. The church failed and now sits abandoned. I often tell that sea story to members of our own congregation when agendas start rearing their heads.

[struggle4progress]

17. Most of us will happily feed the poor, if they can pry our jumbo-burgers from our cold dead fingers,

and most of us will happily love our neighbors, provided we can still smeck those smug asswipes in their stupid schnozzes when we think they need smecks in the schnozz

It's pretty easy to nod when we hear that we all ought to care about the poor and ought to love one another. The next step, after nodding, is usually to notice that lots of the people around us don't seem to care much about the poor and don't really seem to love one another. Then we can be filled with self-righteous indignation about what stupid asswipes surround us and how they all need to be smecked in their smug schnozzes, after which we can snatch away their jumbo-burgers

You will be judged according to the judgment with which you judge, and matters will be measured out to you using whatever measure you use. Matthew 7

[jeepnstein]

26. I sweat that whole judgment thing...

quite a bit. My sins, while considerable, are forgiven. That much is promised to me. The judgment thing could quite easily bite me for all the reasons you so colorfully illustrated.

[frogmarch]

20. One of the drawbacks

to being an atheist is that I never have any fun that's as good as the fun that's going on in your mom's church. Think I'll become a Southern Baptist. Yayussss!

[Taverner]

27. Why megachurch? The bigger the church gets, the higher the salary the preacher can claim

If his church goes from 1000 to 10000, it's not like he's going to stay at the same 50K salary...