Being incapable of faith...

[Humanist_Activist]

Here's something that seems to be a common misconception about atheists and atheism, at least in the western world. For most of us, our atheism isn't a choice, I can only speak for me, but other atheists should post some of their stories. In my case, came from a somewhat religious background, and actually became more religious than my parents, to the point where I wanted to join the priesthood. I was just confirmed, but my mom wasn't happy with the idea, only son and all that, so she told me to study things further and read the Bible.

So I did, I studied the Bible by reading it, I actually did it, in spurts over months, and well before I was done, I had doubts about my faith, and by the end, I lost it entirely. The thing was, it wasn't traumatic, while I was religious, I cherish the social aspects of it, even if church itself was boring. No one in my family was or is overbearingly religious, and I'm far from the first or last in the family to be atheists.

However, I didn't want to let go of my faith entirely, I lost faith in Catholicism, but not necessarily in a God. However, I was raised in a loosely religious household, but also one that emphasized critical thinking and curiosity. So when I applied both to studying other religions, faiths, and theisms, I found all of them wanting in the evidence department. Indeed, up until this point I became aware that I partitioned off my brain, and didn't let the rational part even begin to examine my faith. Once it did, the faith part disappeared, and has yet to reappear.

What I find most interesting is, despite the fact that I use words with negative connotations(lost, incapable, etc.) when describing my lack of faith today, I consider it much more positively for my own life. I'm free to use my critical thinking skills, curiosity, and methodologies such as the scientific method in all aspects of my life. It helps a great deal, and frees me up from worrying about what I don't know, and instead try to learn it instead.

One thing I never did in any of this process is have a choice, this is something a lot of people don't understand, particularly religious people. What I described above is not the same as someone who church shops, or changes denominations or religions. Generally people like that do so for because of political or personal reasons, others simply think any church with a cross on it is "good enough", etc. This is in stark contrast with what I'm talking about, sure I can go back to Catholic Church, but I couldn't do so and still be honest with myself, and I certainly can't pretend to pray to a god I no longer have faith in existing.

You can't force a belief through choice, this is something many people don't understand. Can you force yourself to believe in a flat earth? Or in faeries? No, of course not, and those who would say yes are actually lying, its easy to pretend to believe, but to actually trick yourself into actually believing, no that's impossible without some drastic methods being used.

Note, I'm referring to here the use of the word faith as in believing something without evidence, not the other definitions that have better words to use to begin with, like hope and trust.

[ZombieHorde]

1. I went to a Catholic school. We used to line up in the hallway and pray.

I did not understand what it was about. I did not understand why this god thing was taken so seriously, and my questions usually ended up with me in trouble. I was getting into trouble for blasphemy in the first grade.

Don't ask questions and don't make jokes.

[LeftishBrit]

4. My friend was terribly puzzled by why you were supposed to close your eyes when praying in school

assembly (only times she did pray), and was told that if you did so, you 'turned inside out and let God in'. I think if I'd been told that I'd have been scared; but she was very interested in the concept, and kept experimenting by praying with eyes open and eyes closed to see what would happen and whether she'd feel herself turning inside out when she closed her eyes. But the only difference that she found between the conditions was that she got told off by the teacher when her eyes were open!

Prayers and hymns at school assembly can be confusing to atheist and religious children alike, especially if not well explained. We all wondered as small children why we were addressing Our Father in the Lord's Prayer as 'Harold be Thy name' or 'Hello, what be Thy name?'

[jul61252]

11. ^this

[wtmusic]

2. IMO it's completely unnecessary to defend atheism.

The burden of proof is on those with supernatural beliefs.

[LeftishBrit]

3. Same here

There have been times when I have wanted to believe in religion, and in particular in an afterlife; but I was not capable of doing so. It's difficult to *make* yourself believe things that you don't believe!

[DesertFlower]

5. i was born and raised roman catholic.

went to catholic school. around my early 20s i drifted away. found myself studying metaphysics. i believed in god but not the punishing god.

to make a long story short (i'm almost 70), about 3 years ago i realized i'm an atheist. it's been a "freeing" experience.

[LARED]

6. ' I'm free to use my critical thinking skills,'

You seem to suggest that people with faith somehow have limited or constrained critical thinking skills.

Do I understand this point correctly?

[ZombieHorde]

7. I imagine all humans have limits or constraints to their critical thinking skills.

There are subjects which I feel strong emotions towards; e.g., the safety of my family, the concept of civil rights, etc. My strong emotions probably inhibit my critical thinking skills.

[LARED]

9. I agree that emotions can constrain CT. What I do not agree with is that

faith limits critical thinking. Which is what I took to be the message in the OP.

[dmallind]

8. You can answer that yourself.

If I claimed to have levitated yesterday, what critical thinking skills would a typical religious person in the US apply to this claim?

Now what critical thinking skills do they apply to a claim that a carpenter 2000 years ago rose from the dead?

Why are they differently applied, if they are? If they are not, why is a different conclusion reached? What makes the claims different in regard to how they are evaluated?

Because if they are differently evaluated, and we all know they most certainly are by most religious people even though both claims are of a supernatural event that cannot be duplicated, then there is your constraint (incidentally a word contained in the roots of the word "religion" - no small coincidence either).

Whether the constraint is one of ability or of willingness I think is variable amongst that group, but it's almost universal among them. Why don't religious people apply the same evaluation techniques to claims of their religion that they do to others'? It's a rare Christian indeed who accepts that Mohammed was the last and greatest prophet of God, and a rare Muslim who accepts that Shiva and Vishnu are separate aspects of that same God. Why assess and discard these claims while accepting, respectively, thst Jesus was God incarnate and that Gabriel/Gibreel dictated the Koran verbatim?

[Deep13]

10. Can't answer for the OP, but that is clearly the case.

The whole idea of faith (in the religious sense) is that disbelief is suspended and the veracity of some very improbably things (impossible, really) are accepted as true without evidence and in spite of contrary evidence. The more religious one is, the less critical his or her thinking.Besides, critical thinking is a lot easier once the road is cleared of sacred cows.

[Humanist_Activist]

12. Of course they are faith is ultimately unexamined and exempt from empirical evidence...

or critical examination, particularly by the person holding that faith. Otherwise faith loses literally all meaning, its belief without or even in the face of contrary evidence. People who have faith have a part of their beliefs that do not undergo critical examination, its as simple as that.

[LiberalAndProud]

13. I think the interview with Colin McGinn in The Atheism Tapes series illustrates this inability well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky7fbVjCCcQ (9:18)

(On shedding the skin of religious belief)

I wouldn't say there was relief, I think there was disappointment. I mean I would like religion to be true. I would like it to be true, because I'd like there to be immortality. I'd like there to be rewards for those who have been virtuous and punishments for those who've not been virtuous. Expecially the punishments would be good. There's no justice in this world and it would be good if there was some cosmic force that distributed justice in the proper way that it should be. And it still is, to me, a constant source of irritation and pain that wicked people prosper and virtuous people don't.

[Humanist_Activist]

14. I used to see the appeal in wanting that to be true, but ultimately I think its...

not constructive, and indeed I'm rather glad its not true, and the reason is that such a universe operated in that way robs human life of meaning when we have a perpetual parent that prevents us from growing up and being on our own. Sure you get the rewards and punishments, but what meaning does human life itself have in such a universe? Nothing more than a temporary time of living to prepare for your reward or damnation for eternity? Why do people want this to be true, its being happy to become slaves, in either place, without being able to have any lasting affect in the universe itself.

To be frank, I'm so glad its not true, instead it frees us to make the world we have the best we can make it, for ourselves and even the other species we share it with. Unlike heaven, it will not be "perfect", however it will be ours and it will be achievable. We should live for our family, our friends, and our distant cousins even on other continents, all of us should, as a goal, and ultimate meaning to our lives, make some contribution in improving the lives of the next generation.

Perhaps, in the future, because of advances in science and technology, things such as immortality(at least a close proximity in a finite universe), perpetual happiness, etc. will become achievable and we will not have to surrender to a higher power to get it.